Evaluation and advice on Susan Heck

[darrellmaurina]

I'd appreciate some advice and comments from Reformed brethren (and because this is a women's ministry, of Reformed sisters) on Susan Heck of "With the Master Ministries."

I don't know enough to have opinions that are worth much and would like to listen to counsel of those who are largely likeminded.

 

[John The Baptist]

I’ve never heard of her. After a short tour of her website, she seems to be a MacArthurite/lordship salvation type.

 

[TylerRay]

Stay away from her. She's a woman with a "teaching ministry." Stick to the divinely appointed teaching ministry.

As for women going deeper (which is presumably the rationale for "women's ministries"), the Lord has made provision for that, too: "And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (1 Cor 14:35 KJV).

 

[retroGRAD3]

The Bible also does talk about older women teaching younger women. Not sure if these are the categories Heck is passing on knowledge for though.

Titus 2:3-5 New King James Version (NKJV)​

the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things— that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

 

[Shadow Forge]

Susan Heck is biblically sound. Many scholars such as Justin Peters and others have recommended her. I have listened to several of her lectures and they are sound. She ONLY teaches women/girls.

 

[TylerRay]

The Bible also does talk about older women teaching younger women. Not sure if these are the categories Heck is passing on knowledge for though.

Titus 2:3-5 New King James Version (NKJV)​

the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things— that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.

No, she's a has a Bible teaching ministry. Not a Titus 2:3-5 (KJV) kind of thing; more like a 1 Timothy 2:12 (KJV) kind of thing. "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

 

[TylerRay]

By the way, what do you call someone with a ministry? Isn't it a minister?

What do you call someone who has a ministry of teaching the Word? A minister of the Word?

The fact is that the Lord appointed his ministers to teach both the men and the women of the church, and he tells us what his purpose is in doing so: "For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph 4:12-13 KJV).

It blows my mind that people would think that what God has ordained is insufficient for the purposes for which he ordained it. To claim that we need to supplement the ministry of the church with people who are unfit and unqualified for office is an affront to the wisdom, power, and goodness of God.

 

[TheInquirer]

So when is MacArthur going to tell her to “go home”?

 

[RamistThomist]

So when is MacArthur going to tell her to “go home”?

That is funny.

 

[TylerRay]

I took a peek at her website, and was surprised to see this description for one of her "ladies' bible studies," entitled Shepherding the Sheep:

If there is a study that is needed at this moment in history it is 1 Timothy. We have few shepherds who are feeding their flocks but have become cowards and politicians in the pulpit. The church has become a theater and a place to be entertained rather than feed the pure milk of the word and a place where genuine discipleship takes place.

While she's not wrong, it definitely sounds like she's preaching to preachers rather than helping ladies understand their Bibles.

 

[Phil D.]

Stay away from her. She's a woman with a "teaching ministry.

Do you take the same approach with someone like Rosario Butterfield, who publicly uses her personal testimony to introduce and make application of relevant biblical teaching?

 

[TylerRay]

Do you take the same approach with someone like Rosario Butterfield, who publicly uses her personal testimony to introduce and make application of relevant biblical teaching?

I'm not super familiar with Butterfield. I mean, I know who she is, but I don't follow her at all. If she has a public Bible teaching ministry, then, yes, I would definitely say the same thing. I can name two of her books, but I haven't read them.

I suppose I'd say I don't know enough to denounce what she does, but I know enough to make me cautious.

I didn't know who Heck was before this thread was started, but she makes it very plain that she has a public bible teaching ministry.

 

[Phil D.]

I'm not super familiar with Butterfield. I mean, I know who she is, but I don't follow her at all. If she has a public Bible teaching ministry, then, yes, I would definitely say the same thing. I can name two of her books, but I haven't read them.

I suppose I'd say I don't know enough to denounce what she does, but I know enough to make me cautious.

I didn't know who Heck was before this thread was started, but she makes it very plain that she has a public bible teaching ministry.

Well, she describes herself as a "speaker," and definitely teaches/lectures publicly, such as at this recent event.

 

[davejonescue]

Men are men. It shouldnt be up to the female speaker; especially one that has gone out of their way to have a platform for teaching specifically women, to have to guard the door to her engagements. That falls on the men who attend, who do not consider that they are not to be spiritually taught by women. Their attendance is to their own shame. If she is out here promoting herself as a both gender teacher that is one thing; but if she is focused on the spiritual growth of women, and men show up; that shouldnt be something she is blamed for. That is like men who lust over modestly dressed women, and yet blame the woman that she is not dressed modestly enough. The difference between her and Beth Moore, is Beth Moore has converted to egalitarianism.


Notice it specifically says "Women's Bible Teacher."

 

[Pilgrim]

So when is MacArthur going to tell her to “go home”?

MacArthur has had Joni Eareckson Tada speak many times at conferences. She used to be a member of Grace Church although I don’t know if that is the case any more. She was a member there when Joni and Friends started and I think he encouraged it. If you’re looking for consistency, he’s not your man despite the idea that some seem to have that he is almost immutable.

MacArthur will tell Susan Heck to “Go Home” when she has more than 1/100 of the influence of Beth Moore, who was a huge factor in popularizing charismatic-lite theology in the SBC and beyond, among other problems. For what it is worth, I don’t think those little interviews where they have MacArthur give one word answers about people really do him any favors. It seems to me that it is sort of a tabloid style and designed to stir up controversy.

 

[TheInquirer]

For what it is worth, I don’t think those little interviews where they have MacArthur give one word answers about people really do him any favors. It seems to me that it is sort of a tabloid style and designed to stir up controversy.

Based on the numerous times he’s participated in those formats, I think he loves it. He did it at my first church’s summer family camp somewhere around 1999 or 2000 ish when they were doing a panel and I heard him asked about the Left Behind series and he gave snarky answers. He seems to relish making shocking statements to make the home crowd laugh. It was the next day in the pulpit I heard him say the church would fail in its mission (but that’s another issue).

I guess Mac also recently told his people not to attend conferences if women were speaking but he has done it more than once with Erickson Tada. (Added - noticed above he’s hosted her many times).

 

[Mrs_soup]

It’s interesting. I attended a conference that she was speaking at once, but was unsure how to feel about her books that were essentially theological deep-dives into things outside the realm of Titus 2. Maybe it’s just me being extra cautious, but I’m a little wary of her ministry and its intentions. She didn’t strike me as an Elizabeth Elliott type, but more of someone desiring to be in a teaching role outside the bounds of things specific to women.

I’ll also say that this was not a popular view with some other women I spoke with, but I’d rather err on the side of learning theology from appointed teachers in the church. Call me hyper-complementarian if you will.

That being said, the breadth of her Bible memorization is something to be admired, and certainly encourages me to better my own memory of the scriptures.