Eph 4:11

[KMK]

"And he gave some..."

Is Paul saying that he gave grace to individual men for the purpose of filling a certain office?

Or

Is Paul saying that he gave to his churches, as a gift, men for the purpose of filling those offices? And if so, is Paul making a connection with the promise in Jer 3:15? (I heard Pator Morecraft make this connection in a sermon once)

What thinnk ye?

 

[Hamalas]

I would not say that the two options are mutually exclusive. Paul clearly says in 1 Cor 12:7 "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." (ESV) God gives us spiritual gifts or, "Manifestation's of the Spirit" for the building up of the body and ultimately God's glory. So my take would be that God granted them the necessary grace and gift of the Holy Spirit so that they would have the purpose and desire to build up the body according to their particular "Manifestation."

 

[KMK]

I would not say that the two options are mutually exclusive. Paul clearly says in 1 Cor 12:7 "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." (ESV) God gives us spiritual gifts or, "Manifestation's of the Spirit" for the building up of the body and ultimately God's glory. So my take would be that God granted them the necessary grace and gift of the Holy Spirit so that they would have the purpose and desire to build up the body according to their particular "Manifestation."

to Puritanboard!

I would agree that both possibilities are true, but I was trying to clarify what this verse specifically teaches. If there is a connection with Jer 3:15 most of the commentators don't see it.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

There are some useful resources on Eph. 4.11 found in this thread.

To which I would add the comments of John Collinges (from Matthew Poole's Annotations) on Jer. 3.15:

Jer 3:15. Pastors; either civil magistrates, which are sometimes so called, Mic 5:5; or rather ecclesiastical, as appears both from the reason of God's judgments upon Israel, viz. their pastors being generally either thieves or dumb dogs; and also from the nature of their office, in the close of the verse, and thus they are called Eph 4:11. According to mine heart; such as I will both choose for you and approve of, and that shall faithfully and skilfully declare unto you my mind; which intimates not only a single act of deliverance, but his constant preservation of them. Which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding: this notes either the nature of their food: see Neh 8:8; Mal 2:7. Or rather the manner of their feeding: see Ps 78:72; 1 Pet 5:2. See more of this promise Jer 23:4.

Jer. 3.15 and Eph. 4.11 are linked in Nave's Topical Bible (CHURCH - God provides ministers for - Jeremiah 3:15; Ephesians 4:11,12), Clarke's Scripture Promises

10. THE MEANS OF GRACE

"He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters" (Psalm 23:2).

"They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them" (Isaiah 49:9, 10).

"How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth! Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall bring again Zion" (Isaiah 52:7, .

"I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night" (Isaiah 62:6).

"And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding" (Jeremiah 3:15).

"I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water" (Isaiah 41:18).

"Their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all. And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the LORD" (Jeremiah 31:12, 14).

"And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers" (Isaiah 30:20).

"Them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people" (Isaiah 56:7).

"I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD" (Ezekiel 34:15).

"He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the Saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11-13).

and other like resources as well.

 

[KMK]

Thanks!

I had never heard of Clarke's before and now I have it bookmarked!

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Thanks!

I had never heard of Clarke's before and now I have it bookmarked!