Economic Crisis and the Church

[Herald]

How is the church supposed to approach a major economic calamity? If worse case scenarios become a reality and inflation, unemployment and pandemic foreclosures become normative, how should the church respond? How do we deal with individual members and families that find themselves on the brink of homelessness or the inability to provide for necessities? I'm not saying we should pay the mortgages or car payments for people in distress but how do we respond if they are faced with being put of their homes? These are questions we haven't had to ask on a widespread basis here in the States for a long time. We have to ask them now.

 

[fredtgreco]

Bill,

What makes this even more difficult is that in a day and age where tithing is completely unknown (even in Reformed circles) that the Church will be strapped for its own ministry as its members have less ability to give.

 

[Herald]

Bill,

What makes this even more difficult is that in a day and age where tithing is completely unknown (even in Reformed circles) that the Church will be strapped for its own ministry as its members have less ability to give.

Fred, I don't disagree. But for the sake of discussion, how should the church prepare and handle such developments? Could an economic crisis awaken churches that have fall into the category you have described?

 

[ReformedWretch]

Bill and Fred

Have you guys, or have you known of any pastor that's used this opportunity to preach against materialism and our love/trust in money? I've been wondering how many sermons have been about this as of late.

 

[py3ak]

I think if you didn't preach against materialism in a time of prosperity, it's probably going to sound pretty hollow now.

I think about a situation like Zimbabwe. I saw today that inflation is at about 235 million percent. What can the church do? Encourage its members to be generous and to barter, instead of using the increasingly destructive official medium of exchange.

 

[ReformedWretch]

hollow or not, I'd be preaching it!

 

[Anton Bruckner]

Preach repentance and start teaching Biblical principles of finance so that when the recession is over they would be equipped with the knowledge to make better decisions.

As of now, I would suggest that Pastors and elders start brainstorming to develop plans and strategies to help out members etc. Food donations, clothes donations, budgeting etc are going to be needed. This is where the rubber hits the road.

 

[fredtgreco]

Bill and Fred

Have you guys, or have you known of any pastor that's used this opportunity to preach against materialism and our love/trust in money? I've been wondering how many sermons have been about this as of late.

Adam,

I am in the middle of a series entitled, "Sins that Entangle and We Excuse."

You can see from the titles that it has been Providentially helpful in the current climate (I planned this months ago):

[FONT=&quot]August 31 Respectable Idolatry – Covetousness (Exodus 20:17; Col. 3:5)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 7 Can God Take Care of Me? – Anxiety (Matthew 6:25-34)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 21AM What Have You Done For Me? – Thanklessness (Luke 17:11-19)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 21PM Misplaced Love – Worldliness (1 John 2:15-17)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 28 Do Not Steal, But Work – Lack of Generosity (Eph. 4:28)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
October 5 More Dangerous Than a Sword – Bad Speech (Jas. 3:1-12; Eph 4:29)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
October 12 Looking Down on Your Brother – Judgmentalism (Romans 14:1-12)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
October 19 Overestimating Yourself – Pride (Prov. 16:18-19; 1 Cor. 4:1-7)[/FONT]


It should be up on our website tomorrow.

 

[Herald]

Fred, I'm reading Jerry Bridges book, "Respectable Sins." It's spot on with the series you are preaching.

 

[Herald]

Preach repentance and start teaching Biblical principles of finance so that when the recession is over they would be equipped with the knowledge to make better decisions.

As of now, I would suggest that Pastors and elders start brainstorming to develop plans and strategies to help out members etc. Food donations, clothes donations, budgeting etc are going to be needed. This is where the rubber hits the road.

I think that is what may need to be done. The church should be ashamed to see it's members turning to the government for help. While sin may be the cause of much financial hardship, it's not always the case.

 

[Mushroom]

If we had a righteous man running for president, he would not be concerned with the "economic crisis" of this nation...he would be concerned with the "MORAL CRISIS OF THIS NATION"!!!!!

I have to agree with that statement.

The Lord will provide for His people. This nation, however, is reaping what it hath sown. And that is a rebuke for many who call themselves christians in it. We are too willing to compromise the right for the convenient, even though we have been made free to do the right at such a price - our Beloved Redeemer's blood.

I am just as guilty as any, may God have mercy upon me. We are a lazy, arrogant, self-possessed people, assuming we deserve better than our brothers by dint of birth or geography. I wonder if that Dalit brother in India shoveling dung in third-hand clothes is concerned about the NYSE or his 401K? Perhaps we should be more concerned about him than those things?

What do we modern-day Puritans say?

 

[satz]

If we had a righteous man running for president, he would not be concerned with the "economic crisis" of this nation...he would be concerned with the "MORAL CRISIS OF THIS NATION"!!!!!

I have to agree with that statement.

The Lord will provide for His people. This nation, however, is reaping what it hath sown. And that is a rebuke for many who call themselves christians in it. We are too willing to compromise the right for the convenient, even though we have been made free to do the right at such a price - our Beloved Redeemer's blood.

Could you elaborate more on how american christians have compromised, and why they should see this financial crisis as a rebuke upon them?

 

[Mushroom]

If we had a righteous man running for president, he would not be concerned with the "economic crisis" of this nation...he would be concerned with the "MORAL CRISIS OF THIS NATION"!!!!!

I have to agree with that statement.

The Lord will provide for His people. This nation, however, is reaping what it hath sown. And that is a rebuke for many who call themselves christians in it. We are too willing to compromise the right for the convenient, even though we have been made free to do the right at such a price - our Beloved Redeemer's blood.

Could you elaborate more on how american christians have compromised, and why they should see this financial crisis as a rebuke upon them?

The second paragraph may have been explanatory enough. Perhaps in Australia it is different, but here many christians give more thought to their wide screen TVs than their brethren in less blessed circumstances. And spend more money on them as well. What was it James said?:

Jas 2:13-17 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. (14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? (15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, (16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? (17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

We can pretend we don't see it, but we do. In this communication age, there is nothing we can't find out, so to feign ignorance is only more sin. We (myself included) avoid delving into the hardships even those in our own assemblies are enduring. Ignorance is bliss, and besides, it might be unpleasant, or put a crimp in our own enjoyment.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Perhaps you disagree?

 

[BJClark]

Anton Bruckner;

As of now, I would suggest that Pastors and elders start brainstorming to develop plans and strategies to help out members etc. Food donations, clothes donations, budgeting etc are going to be needed. This is where the rubber hits the road.

How many churches here have a food bank?

Our does, not sure how much food is there at the moment, but we also have some 4 or 5 freezers people have donated to store some of it. So maybe ask if someone has a freezer they could donate to start a food bank.

How many men/women here hunt? Hunting season is here, maybe go hunting and stock freezers w/ deer meat to share with those in need.

Our church teaches the Crown Financial Course twice a year as an evening class, maybe churches could start teaching that, if they are not?

Crown Financial Ministries

However, they are strapped financially at the moment, so they can't help to much in that respect.

If anyone is interested, I can get you in touch w/ the folks in our church who handle those things if you want ideas?

I don't know how many folks live in areas where they have a Winn Dixie, but here they are always have a buy one get one on meats, if you do, maybe encourage your congregation to buy like that and maybe donate one to the church to help other families who may be struggling?

or if they buy food in bulk like at Sam's club or something, they could donate a portion of that?

but you'd certainly have to set up a room in the church to store those things, and have grocery bags available to pack it in up when people need assistance.

And you may want to consider working with OTHER organizations in your communities even if they are not reformed, as they may have funds available when your church doesn't, and you may have a full food bank when theirs doesn't..and you can call on each other for assistance.

Maybe organize a community Mercy Network?

Check around see if there is a local clothes closet in your area, we have one, a small group of Christian women started it.

Something some of the women in one church used to do, is all the women with children get together and all of them donate the clothes their kids have out grown the previous school year into a big garage sale, they put a price on it with their name, and everyone who has donated clothes goes in and shops for their own kids.

they keep a list of names and phone numbers of everyone who participates, and if you donate clothes to sell you go in and shop for your kids early, then once every one who has donated has finished shopping, they open it to the public and have a large yard sale, and the women who take the time to run the week/two week long event take about 5% of the proceeds for their work, and then they total all the tickets by names total what each person made, and then deduct out the price what they purchased, some times you owe a little bit, sometimes you make a little extra money..Up until my youngest daughter was in 6th grade, that's pretty much how they got most of their school clothes, and then as the kids of the women who ran it started graduating high school they stopped having it at their home, and I'm not sure who took it over from there.

I was blessed in that one of the women I knew who participated, her daughter was a year older than one of my daughters and they were about the same size, so she started getting with me BEFORE the sale and would mark the price down a bit, and she would keep ALL the proceeds for herself, without paying the 5% to the other women out of that money, so it was win/win for us..

So if it's possible to do something like that within your church, it's something to consider.

 

[satz]

Thanks, Brad.

The second paragraph may have been explanatory enough.

Probably, I just like things spelt out for me. What is obvious to the writer is not always obvious to a reader far away...

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Perhaps you disagree?

No, I don't.

 

[Herald]

People, I started this thread to ask how the church should respond to a major economic crisis. It is not a political thread. Please stay on topic.

 

[satz]

Bill,

I am not sure there is necessarily anything special to do.

Times of adversity should cause the christians, both corporately and individually to examine themselves for sin, and to seek to trust more fully in God.

Beyond that, prudent and frugal living would appear to be wise by both the church and christians. Christians always have a duty to help other christians who are in need, and if the crisis worsens probably that will just mean more christians in a church would end up in need, which is why it would be wise to save and limit expenses so you can help others, or yourself if you are affected.

Beyond that, what else can the church do? (genuine question)

 

[ReformedWretch]

Fred-AWESOME!

 

[SueS]

When I'm in the checkout line at the grocery store I always look at other shopping carts to see what is being purchased (I know, I'm nebby) It's shocking to see how much convenience foods and how little real food is in them, especially in the carts of people who are obviously in the lower economical classes. So many people think that taking a dinner out of a box and nuking it is "cooking". These folks are going to be hurting big time if things get really tough.

I think that an important ministry of mercy would be for women of the church to get together and offer their services to lower income women to teach them how to prepare nutritious, low cost meals.

 

[kvanlaan]

I am just as guilty as any, may God have mercy upon me. We are a lazy, arrogant, self-possessed people, assuming we deserve better than our brothers by dint of birth or geography. I wonder if that Dalit brother in India shoveling dung in third-hand clothes is concerned about the NYSE or his 401K? Perhaps we should be more concerned about him than those things?

See, when I first saw the thread title and read the OP, I thought, "How should the church respond to the financial crisis" and the idea that we should be gearing up for this sort of thing, and then thought, "Why should this be any different than how we operate as a church day to day?"

In a sorta-kinda-maybe-similar-maybe-not way, it's like asking how differently we should behave if we knew that Christ would return tomorrow at 9:01am. Should we be having an extra-specially 'spiritual' last few hours? In reality, shouldn't we be living exactly like we have been day to day? Wouldn't it be the same with the church?

 

[BJClark]

kvanlaan;4

See, when I first saw the thread title and read the OP, I thought, "How should the church respond to the financial crisis" and the idea that we should be gearing up for this sort of thing, and then thought, "Why should this be any different than how we operate as a church day to day?"

In a sorta-kinda-maybe-similar-maybe-not way, it's like asking how differently we should behave if we knew that Christ would return tomorrow at 9:01am. Should we be having an extra-specially 'spiritual' last few hours? In reality, shouldn't we be living exactly like we have been day to day? Wouldn't it be the same with the church?

Exactly, and if the Churches aren't doing these things..what have they been doing?


It's like those who had oil for their lamps, and those who didn't..

 

[Pergamum]

Bill and Fred

Have you guys, or have you known of any pastor that's used this opportunity to preach against materialism and our love/trust in money? I've been wondering how many sermons have been about this as of late.

Adam,

I am in the middle of a series entitled, "Sins that Entangle and We Excuse."

You can see from the titles that it has been Providentially helpful in the current climate (I planned this months ago):

[FONT=&quot]August 31 Respectable Idolatry – Covetousness (Exodus 20:17; Col. 3:5)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 7 Can God Take Care of Me? – Anxiety (Matthew 6:25-34)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 21AM What Have You Done For Me? – Thanklessness (Luke 17:11-19)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 21PM Misplaced Love – Worldliness (1 John 2:15-17)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
September 28 Do Not Steal, But Work – Lack of Generosity (Eph. 4:28)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
October 5 More Dangerous Than a Sword – Bad Speech (Jas. 3:1-12; Eph 4:29)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
October 12 Looking Down on Your Brother – Judgmentalism (Romans 14:1-12)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
October 19 Overestimating Yourself – Pride (Prov. 16:18-19; 1 Cor. 4:1-7)[/FONT]


It should be up on our website tomorrow.

VERY COOL!

I am really convicted that more of these sorts of sermons need to be preached in our circles rather than the theological lectures that I often here. Body-life is extremely doctrinal and getting along with others, too, is doctrinal and Biblical...

 

[Pergamum]

NIX the building funds! My missionary friends just got a letter from a supporting church that went like this:

"Hello so-and-so,

We are praising the Lord about our plans to build our new sanctuary....blah blah


Last paragraph.... We are sorry to inform you that we no longer have adequate funds to pledge to your ministry. As of next month we will be dropping your support..."


This mission family is now almost near the point where they will not to drop their minister and return home to raise more support....

 

[Pergamum]

I have recently had an increase in support as donors desire to help me finish my house. The generosity of my supporters is extraordinary!