Does this story ring a bell?

[JennyG]

I wondered if anyone could place an anecdote I heard once.
It concerned an elderly Christian who might have been fairly well-known in his own day (perhaps 18th century but that's only a guess) but I don't think particularly famous.

He was John Somebody, and one day an acquaintance asked how John x was.
The reply was "John x is very well. His earthly house is not in very good repair,.. and he thinks he may very soon have notice to quit - but John himself was never better".
That was the gist anyway.
Does anyone know who that could have been? Thanks!

 

[Scott1]

Not sure if this is what you are thinking... but if it is, you owe me some scones.

Benjamin Franklin's gravestone:

The body of Benjamin Franklin, printer (like the cover of an old book, its
contents worn out, and stript of its lettering and gilding) lies here, food for
worms. Yet the work itself shall not lost, for it will, as he
believed, appear once more In a new and more beautiful
edition, corrected and amended by its Author

 

[JennyG]

Thank you, Scott, but no, unfortunately! the idea is very similar but I'm pretty sure of the "John". Also that it was said by the still-living person concerned, rather than inscribed on his tombstone. Was Franklin a Christian?
If it had been the right one, I would have put the scones straight in the Royal Mail, and that way you could have been sure of receiving them within 2 years at most (I'm being ironic - sorry, Royal Mail)
Of course, I might have first demanded the correct answer to the question, how is "scone" pronounced? Does it rhyme with "bone" or with "gone"??

 

[PuritanZealot]

That sounds a bit like John Warburton. In his autobiography "Mercies of a Covenant God". Perhaps?

 

[JennyG]

Thanks, I'll try googling that!
I only encountered the story as an anecdote in a different book (and can't now even recall what that book was...)

 

[Scott1]

JennyG
Was Franklin a Christian?

There has been a lot of revisionism by historians about our founding fathers, and a pop media focus on unproven behaviors in his life, also a complete lack of context.

He certainly had quirks, which is what makes him interesting, and certainly was carried along by a clear Christian world view, by common grace.

One quote from the person sometimes popularly reported not to believe in God, or an active God, etc:

Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was Ben Franklin who during a critical impasse during the Constitutional Convention, 28 June 1787, introduced the practice of daily common prayer at the Convention, with these words:

... In the beginning of the contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine Protection. -- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. ... And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance. I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: ...I therefore beg leave to move -- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that service.[75]

Oh, that the "atheists," "agnostics," of our day would pray, lead, and have the practical wisdom based on biblical principles that Mr. Franklin did.

 

[earl40]

JennyG
Was Franklin a Christian?

There has been a lot of revisionism by historians about our founding fathers, and a pop media focus on unproven behaviors in his life, also a complete lack of context.

He certainly had quirks, which is what makes him interesting, and certainly was carried along by a clear Christian world view, by common grace.

One quote from the person sometimes popularly reported not to believe in God, or an active God, etc:

Benjamin Franklin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was Ben Franklin who during a critical impasse during the Constitutional Convention, 28 June 1787, introduced the practice of daily common prayer at the Convention, with these words:

... In the beginning of the contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine Protection. -- Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. ... And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance. I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings that "except the Lord build they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: ...I therefore beg leave to move -- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that service.[75]

Oh, that the "atheists," "agnostics," of our day would pray, lead, and have the practical wisdom based on biblical principles that Mr. Franklin did.

Do you think this "type" of person is not more dangerous to the people than the rank "honest" atesist? There is something in me that quakes when I think of judgment day for the Ben Franklins of this world.

 

[JennyG]

It is a noble piece of writing, whatever else.

Oh, that the "atheists," "agnostics," of our day would pray, lead, and have the practical wisdom based on biblical principles that Mr. Franklin did.

- amen to that, even if there be truth in what Earl says.
Thanks be to God also that our two countries didn't continue in hostility. I hate to think of their ever having been so. From where I'm standing, it often seems that Britain has totally sold out her Christian heritage and only in America - humanly speaking - is there hope for the world.
Stand fast, my brothers and sisters!

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

Craig, I'm in your debt for that suggestion. I haven't yet found exactly what I was looking for, but in googling John Warburton I came on a lot of other very good things. And he certainly does seem quite a likely candidate, so I'll keep my eyes open. Thanks!

 

[Scott1]

earl40

Do you think this "type" of person is not more dangerous to the people than the rank "honest" atesist? There is something in me that quakes when I think of judgment day for the Ben Franklins of this world.

We don't have a clear basis to say Mr. Franklin was not a Christian, or did not at least consider himself to be one.

There are benefits when the unregenerate outwardly obey God's laws because it is a way God restrains evil and blesses all men (common grace).

Everyone will appear before the judgment seat of Christ for sin, everyone will be resurrected at the last day for that. Hypocrisy (professing Christ but not having Him as Lord) will be but one more sin heaped upon the condemnation that will befall the unbeliever and hypocrisy in the sense of having Christ but disobeying Him will be but one more cause for chastisement in this life, and sorrowful accounting for the believer before pardon.

 

[py3ak]

Scott, we have a fairly clear basis to say that Franklin was not a Christian in his own autobiography. He stopped convincing people of his own views, because he found it was inconvenient for him for those around him to lose their morality along with their religion.

 

[Scott1]

After reviewing some excerpts from Mr. Franklin's biography, there is definitely confusion there. On the one hand believing in one God who governs His universe, on the other doubting the deity of our Lord. At once, being devoutly religious, then being deist. Calvinist, Episcopalian, agnostic.

But he no doubt was used by God to promote biblical principles, he lead in them, toward them, followed many outwardly and often did not oppose them. He was, at minimum, a product of common grace, restrained from much folly.

He started a centuries long tradition of praying to the Father in the Name of Jesus in the highest levels of government. We mustn't overlook that.... or diminish many of his other attributes that furthered biblical governance and life, whether he intended it or not.

This one man could be a thread for discussion, particularly in light of revisionist history.