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He does appear to quote from the LXX more - why is that?
Did Jesus have a perfect memory? Did he remember his own birth in the manger?
Hello Eoghan,
This has been fairly often discussed here at PB. Here's a thread with an extended discussion (I'd start around post #40):
http://www.puritanboard.com/f63/history-authorized-version-31573/
Here's an excellent ebook (in PDF) on the topic: The Septuagint: A Critical Analysis, by Floyd Nolen Jones. (The hardcopy version of this book is out of print.)
Hope this helps.
Steve
Remember it? He planned and executed it. Does God have three minds?
He does appear to quote from the LXX more - why is that?
Did Jesus have a perfect memory? Did he remember his own birth in the manger?
Jews traditionally read from the Hebrew parashat each week since the restoration of the second temple. Are we wromng in thinking that it was ALWAYS a hebrew text? I mean they did translate it into Greek! They must have read it in Greek - in the synagogue!
So Jews (Hellenists) were unrolling Greek scrolls in their synagogues.
The quotation from Isaiah that speaks of the virgin who will give birth is Septuagint.
Jesus quoted from the Septuagint, so can we assume that He read it in the synagogue??
So Jews (Hellenists) were unrolling Greek scrolls in their synagogues.
I don't dispute this because I don't know enough about the subject, but you didn't get there by anything that's been presented on this thread so far. Jews were allowed to read the Law even out of formal Synagogue settings.
Sorry in advance if I'm not understanding you!!!
You seem to be overlooking the institution of Torah Study by Ezra and Nehemiah. You also overlook the importance of "understanding" which was behind the call to the seventy to translate - not dissimilar to the protestant view that people should be able to read the scriptures in church "in the vulgar tongue"
If Greek was the language of the court and camp, and indeed must have been spoken by most in the land, the language of the people, spoken also by Christ and His Apostles, was a dialect of the ancient Hebrew, the Western or Palestinian Aramaic.
with some Hebrew phrases and grammar thrown in, just like Yiddish is German with some Hebrew phrases and grammar thrown in.11 Then Eliakim, Shebna and Joah said to the field commander, "Please speak to your servants in Aramaic, since we understand it. Don't speak to us in Hebrew in the hearing of the people on the wall."
You seem to be overlooking the institution of Torah Study by Ezra and Nehemiah. You also overlook the importance of "understanding" which was behind the call to the seventy to translate - not dissimilar to the protestant view that people should be able to read the scriptures in church "in the vulgar tongue"
Neither of us is understanding the other. Christ did quote from the Septuagint. About the only scholars who deny this are Independent Baptists, i.e. people who aren't careful and systematic in their understanding of Scripture.
I was not aware that Mr. Rafalsky was a Baptist! Good to have you in our camp, brother.
It seems strange that this could ever have been doubted. A Jewish Messiah Who would urge His claim upon Israel in Greek, seems almost a contradiction in terms.
I was not aware that Mr. Rafalsky was a Baptist! Good to have you in our camp, brother.
Ken, you took part in the very discussion I was referring to, and you know good and well Brother Steve admitted relying heavily on IBs for his theories about the Septuagint.
I trust, since he's brought the very same quote up again by Edersheim that he has done some further research into whether or not Palestinian Aramaic is just a dialect of Hebrew SINCE THAT IS THE MAIN ARGUMENT OF EDERSHEIM. Christ wouldn't have pressed His claims on His people in a foreign tongue.
It seems strange that this could ever have been doubted. A Jewish Messiah Who would urge His claim upon Israel in Greek, seems almost a contradiction in terms.
If Aramaic was (and it was and is and always has been) a foreign tongue, you could substitute Aramaic for Greek in the above quote, and it would be ridiculous, right? So Edersheim has to make Aramaic a form of Hebrew.
If Aramaic was (and it was and is and always has been) a foreign tongue
I am now understanding your objections better, brother. Thanks for the clarity. (Although it seems like you try to poison the well with your remark about IBs)
Mr. Rafalsky has been kind enough to provide some source/s for his argument. Can you provide some sources for this statement?
Quote:
If Aramaic was (and it was and is and always has been) a foreign tongue
What are the distinguishing factors between a 'language' and a 'dialect'? I know a lot of people argue that KJ English is a 'foreign tongue' as well.
I am not being argumentative, but would really like to understand.
Second, you impugn Edersheim's motives and scholarship, over his use of nomenclature. This is not godly.
A couple of comments on this. First, we're talking about Jesus' using the Greek and not the Aramaic.
It seems strange that this could ever have been doubted. A Jewish Messiah Who would urge His claim upon Israel in Greek, seems almost a contradiction in terms.
"...Aramaic is every bit as foreign to Hebrew as Greek."
Not really, as it is from the same Semitic language group, but that's beside the point. The point is, Aramaic was not foreign to the Jewish people. It was not a foreign language to them, as Greek was.
The point is, Aramaic was not foreign to the Jewish people. It was not a foreign language to them, as Greek was.