Dare I ask? Nudity in sculpture, what say ye?

[Richard King]

I wonder what the consensus is here on the PB.
I remember Lady Liberty used to have wardrobe malfunctions in some art and on some money and now this is causing a stir in San Antone:
Is it stir-worthy?
Offensive or Art? Nude Statue Unveiled Downtown | WOAI.COM: San Antonio News

If this is deemed an inappropriate post please delete it ASAP

 

[matt01]

There is a "group" statue outside one of the hospitals where I grew up, which depicts a whole family naked. I could never figure out what the point of it was...

 

[Grymir]

I think it's a little much to influenced by our sex-driven arts. It's more sexy than tastefull. Let's get the real Lady Liberty back.

 

[Pergamum]

I've seen paintings and statues of nursing mothers. The point is not sexuality but human beauty during nursing I guess.

 

[Nate]

There is a "group" statue outside one of the hospitals where I grew up, which depicts a whole family naked. I could never figure out what the point of it was...

Was that here in Ann Arbor? I walk past the naked family every morning and evening.

RE the OP, I think some nude art is tastefully done, but viewer discretion should be advised. Don't like even "tasteful" art like the naked family where it's virtually impossible for me to block my kids from seeing it.

 

[discipulo]

That’s a very interesting question.

It seems that after the fall and the loss of the state of innocence it is no longer

«neutral» if this might be the right word, to watch a nude body.

I don’t find it wrong to watch a statue of Rodin of for instance David of Michelangelo.

But I still find it a very difficult question, concerning art.

Do you think Canaan’s curse by Noah on Genesis 9 has any implication?

 

[shackleton]

This proves that the law too can be sexy...

But seriously, it seems like nudity is frowned upon in the bible after the fall. Great pains were taken so that no one would see anyone else' s nudity throughout the Torah. Nudity, outside the marriage relationship, seems to be associated with shame.

 

[matt01]

There is a "group" statue outside one of the hospitals where I grew up, which depicts a whole family naked. I could never figure out what the point of it was...

Was that here in Ann Arbor? I walk past the naked family every morning and evening.

RE the OP, I think some nude art is tastefully done, but viewer discretion should be advised. Don't like even "tasteful" art like the naked family where it's virtually impossible for me to block my kids from seeing it.

It was in Minnesota. Are they all holding hands in Ann Arbor?

 

[larryjf]

Our nakedness is our shame, and not something to be gazed upon outside in the public arena as if it were not shameful.
(Isa 47:3; Rev 3:18)

 

[Pergamum]

How about said portraits of nursing mothers which show the dignity of the family and the bond between mother and child?



Or portraits and photography of tribals which show the anthropological situation of remote tribes and how they live?

 

[LadyFlynt]

Also, where would we be without nude art, as that is what helped our understanding of the human anatomy for medical purposes (?) The argument has much to offer on both sides and I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

[LawrenceU]

I don't see nursing and nudity as the same thing at all. Nursing is a normal part of life. It is a gift from God that nourishes and enables the mothering bond to strengthen. I appreciate it when mothers show discretion in nursing, but I do not see a problem at all with mothers nursing in public. I know that is seen as weird in the sanitized American culture.

On the flips side, however, what purpose does a portrait of a nursing mother serve? (Not being argumentative, just curious.)

Portraits of a tribe might be appropriate if done in the proper manner; not like some that National Geographic used to do that sensualised the younger women.

 

[larryjf]

How about said portraits of nursing mothers which show the dignity of the family and the bond between mother and child?



Or portraits and photography of tribals which show the anthropological situation of remote tribes and how they live?

You don't need to show a mother nursing to show the dignity of the family. I would also have to ask if you believe that a mother who breast feeds shows more dignity than a woman who bottle feeds.

You can say that tribes are nude without showing pictures of them. So you can still get an understanding without the actual nudity.

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 10:18:17 EST-----

Also, where would we be without nude art, as that is what helped our understanding of the human anatomy for medical purposes (?) The argument has much to offer on both sides and I'm somewhere in the middle.

Can you show that the medical field has grown because of public displays of nudity?

There is no reason why the medical field would need anatomy to be displayed publicly.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Can you show that the medical field has grown because of public displays of nudity?

There is no reason why the medical field would need anatomy to be displayed publicly.

Modeling done in classrooms or for private artists...this is public in a different sense. Others see it. Many of the famous artists of the past have used it for both art and the study of the anatomy. Da Vinci is one that I can think of. Between these artists and eventually the idea of autopsy, which artists also learned from and medical practioners learned from both, we have seen nude art used to our benefit. Now the question is, should we have permitted it in the first place? How do you feel about much religious art (even that that leaves out Christ...er, Thom the Swedish Shepherd)? Do you find any exceptability in it, even if certain portions are covered, the majority is mostly nude.

 

[he beholds]

I wonder what the consensus is here on the PB.
I remember Lady Liberty used to have wardrobe malfunctions in some art and on some money and now this is causing a stir in San Antone:
Is it stir-worthy?
Offensive or Art? Nude Statue Unveiled Downtown | WOAI.COM: San Antonio News

If this is deemed an inappropriate post please delete it ASAP

We need a poll!

I personally don't like seeing nude art because it makes me feel uncomfortable, even if I didn't do anything! So maybe this is a weaker brother issue, where I am weaker in that it makes me feel guilty, whereas others may feel fine.
I am not guilty, but I feel guilty, when looking at their stumbling blocks of clay.

 

[Pergamum]

No, you cannot have medical textbooks without nude pictures.... I sure wouldn't send my wife to that gyno!


How about breastfeeding in public?

HOw about pics like the naked little girl that had her clothes burned by napalm during the Vietnam war and is running away screaming, does that one sexualize little girls? Or the naked stacks of skinny Jewish corpses stacked like cordwood taken from WWII..

I think that there is a virtue in the raw shock value of some pictures.. and tribal life is also included.

 

[larryjf]

First, i don't believe that just because something is shocking it excuses us to use it.

Second, there is nothing that i can see that shows that the medical field must learn or perform those things which require nudity to do so in public.

Third, it's not the act of feeding your baby that's the problem in my estimation, it's the uncovering of oneself. A mother can breast feed in public while covering herself.

 

[LadyFlynt]

Second, there is nothing that i can see that shows that the medical field must learn or perform those things which require nudity to do so in public.

How so? And what do you consider "public"?

Third, it's not the act of feeding your baby that's the problem in my estimation, it's the uncovering of oneself. A mother can breast feed in public while covering herself.

For quite a few people, to nurse in public IS uncovering oneself, thus why nursing mothers are discriminated against so heavily in today's society (interesting that it's okay to show a whole lot more breast if it's fashion, but heaven forbid a few inches if a child is attached to it! ) And please, please don't say "have a blanket"...I know few children that tolerate being covered, particularly in humidity and heat.

 

[Richard King]

Can I add a poll after having already done the original post?

 

[LadyFlynt]

Can you add "depends upon context" in the choices?

 

[larryjf]

Second, there is nothing that i can see that shows that the medical field must learn or perform those things which require nudity to do so in public.

How so? And what do you consider "public"?

Doctors can learn amongst themselves cloistered from the general population. I can't think of a reason why an auto mechanic seeing a naked woman would help the medical field in any way. So by public i mean open to the general public.

Third, it's not the act of feeding your baby that's the problem in my estimation, it's the uncovering of oneself. A mother can breast feed in public while covering herself.

For quite a few people, to nurse in public IS uncovering oneself, thus why nursing mothers are discriminated against so heavily in today's society (interesting that it's okay to show a whole lot more breast if it's fashion, but heaven forbid a few inches if a child is attached to it! ) And please, please don't say "have a blanket"...I know few children that tolerate being covered, particularly in humidity and heat.

Why do you consider it discrimination to have a woman cover herself?
I would not say that sensual fashions are appropriate either, so that has little relevance to the discussion at hand.

Perhaps the depravity of man is not fully comprehended here. When a baby is sucking on his mother while nursing some men do become aroused. Breast feeding is not as benign as some make it out to be, but rather does entice some to sinful thoughts.

 

[Pergamum]

First, i don't believe that just because something is shocking it excuses us to use it.

Second, there is nothing that i can see that shows that the medical field must learn or perform those things which require nudity to do so in public.

Third, it's not the act of feeding your baby that's the problem in my estimation, it's the uncovering of oneself. A mother can breast feed in public while covering herself.

Yes, define public.


You don't know much about the medical field or training in medical or midwifery procedures do you? The most beneficial textbooks on gynecology, birthing procedures, and basic examinations all have "dirty" pictures in them, and without them the textbooks would be useless. Should we require an over-18 verification before nurses and pre-med students purchase these helpful tools?

If you are concerned about modesty, one must have nimble fingers indeed for a mom to be totally discreet when undoing clothes, un-hinging the mammary and positioning the babe. It IS usually done as discreetly as possible and yet is a tricky procedure and often fails your modety tests unless we quarantine these troublesome breeders to a backroom.

 

[JBaldwin]

I wonder what the consensus is here on the PB.
I remember Lady Liberty used to have wardrobe malfunctions in some art and on some money and now this is causing a stir in San Antone:
Is it stir-worthy?
Offensive or Art? Nude Statue Unveiled Downtown | WOAI.COM: San Antonio News

If this is deemed an inappropriate post please delete it ASAP

We need a poll!

I personally don't like seeing nude art because it makes me feel uncomfortable, even if I didn't do anything! So maybe this is a weaker brother issue, where I am weaker in that it makes me feel guilty, whereas others may feel fine.
I am not guilty, but I feel guilty, when looking at their stumbling blocks of clay.

Where is my artist friend when I need him? A friend of mine (whom I haven't seen in several years) is a believer and a professional potter and painter. He seemed to have sorted this out in his mind. He used nudity in his artwork, though he never used nude models, and for some reason, his work did not seem to be offensive to me, perhaps because he painted so that the eye was not drawn to the nudity, but to some other focal point. Also, he did not go into gory details when he painted a nude figure.

Two weekends ago, a friend and I went to the BJU art gallery. There is nudity in some of the art in that gallery, but it not sexually explicite in nature, and as I sit here and think about it, I am hard pressed to remember if there was any nudity in the paintings at all.

On the other hand, I can remember walking through the Louvre in Paris and being totally offended by the nude paintings. While passing through one gallery I put my head down and walked as fast as I could, because I was bombarded with one explicite nude painting after another.

It's these experiences that make me wonder what stance to take on the issue.

 

[he beholds]

First, i don't believe that just because something is shocking it excuses us to use it.

Second, there is nothing that i can see that shows that the medical field must learn or perform those things which require nudity to do so in public.

Third, it's not the act of feeding your baby that's the problem in my estimation, it's the uncovering of oneself. A mother can breast feed in public while covering herself.

Yes, define public.


You don't know much about the medical field or training in medical or midwifery procedures do you? The most beneficial textbooks on gynecology, birthing procedures, and basic examinations all have "dirty" pictures in them, and without them the textbooks would be useless. Should we require an over-18 verification before nurses and pre-med students purchase these helpful tools?

If you are concerned about modesty, one must have nimble fingers indeed for a mom to be totally discreet when undoing clothes, un-hinging the mammary and positioning the babe. It IS usually done as discreetly as possible and yet is a tricky procedure and often fails your modety tests unless we quarantine these troublesome breeders to a backroom.

I think it is the responsibility of the mother to know if she can be discreet while nursing. If not, she should voluntarily remove herself. There are moms who nurse in the worship service, covered completely, or moms who sit in the side room to do it.

 

[larryjf]

Yes, define public.

In terms of doctors learning, i would say that they should learn at medical school and not on in the public art galleries.

You don't know much about the medical field or training in medical or midwifery procedures do you? The most beneficial textbooks on gynecology, birthing procedures, and basic examinations all have "dirty" pictures in them, and without them the textbooks would be useless. Should we require an over-18 verification before nurses and pre-med students purchase these helpful tools?

I admit that i'm not a medical doctor, nor have i been to medical school. I think most of us on the puritanboard fall into that category. The question before us is not one of medicine but one of religion.
I never condemned medical text books, so i'm not sure why you are defending them as if i have condemned them.

If you are concerned about modesty, one must have nimble fingers indeed for a mom to be totally discreet when undoing clothes, un-hinging the mammary and positioning the babe. It IS usually done as discreetly as possible and yet is a tricky procedure and often fails your modety tests unless we quarantine these troublesome breeders to a backroom.

I have no "test" of modesty.
I'm not sure why you presume that i make no room for mistakes.
A nursing mother accidentally exposing herself is quite different from a nursing mother who simply bears all to feed her baby.

 

[Pergamum]

Valid question = is all nudity pronography? Or is pronography nudity plus something else (lasciviousness or a goal or aim of the piece of art).

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 11:44:35 EST-----

Yes, define public.

In terms of doctors learning, i would say that they should learn at medical school and not on in the public art galleries.

You don't know much about the medical field or training in medical or midwifery procedures do you? The most beneficial textbooks on gynecology, birthing procedures, and basic examinations all have "dirty" pictures in them, and without them the textbooks would be useless. Should we require an over-18 verification before nurses and pre-med students purchase these helpful tools?

I admit that i'm not a medical doctor, nor have i been to medical school. I think most of us on the puritanboard fall into that category. The question before us is not one of medicine but one of religion.
I never condemned medical text books, so i'm not sure why you are defending them as if i have condemned them.

If you are concerned about modesty, one must have nimble fingers indeed for a mom to be totally discreet when undoing clothes, un-hinging the mammary and positioning the babe. It IS usually done as discreetly as possible and yet is a tricky procedure and often fails your modety tests unless we quarantine these troublesome breeders to a backroom.

I have no "test" of modesty.
I'm not sure why you presume that i make no room for mistakes.
A nursing mother accidentally exposing herself is quite different from a nursing mother who simply bears all to feed her baby.

Your stance has large implications. National Geographic would be 18-plus for its porm,and the sale of medical books using such images would be restricted.

 

[he beholds]

Valid question = is all nudity pronography? Or is pronography nudity plus something else (lasciviousness or a goal or aim of the piece of art).

All nudity is not p0rnography. Is all public nudity? Still probably not--football players after the game showering in the locker room is not.

So something else has to be added.

Don't we believe that all things are good--it's what we do with those things that could be bad?

 

[larryjf]

Your stance has large implications. National Geographic would be 18-plus for its porm,and the sale of medical books using such images would be restricted.

Why would you have problems with that?

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 11:49:38 EST-----

Valid question = is all nudity pronography? Or is pronography nudity plus something else (lasciviousness or a goal or aim of the piece of art).

I think the question implies an incorrect presumption...that if p0rnography could be removed from nudity then nudity is o.k.

 

[Pergamum]

Yes, define public.

In terms of doctors learning, i would say that they should learn at medical school and not on in the public art galleries.

Ha! I will agree with you on this one....


Never go to a plastic surgeon that has Picasso paintings hanging on his walls - especially for nose jobs!

-----Added 12/9/2008 at 11:52:04 EST-----

I think nudity has its uses.

 

[Scynne]

Our nakedness is our shame, and not something to be gazed upon outside in the public arena as if it were not shameful.
(Isa 47:3; Rev 3:18)

I'm definitely going to have to agree with this statement. I say nudity has no place in art. Some pornographers call their work 'artistic', but it is not justifyable. True, they do their work purely for filling lust, but nakedness is not meant to be viewed outside of marriage, even if making a legitimate statement.
If someone were walking around nude in public, would that be acceptable? How any more so a sculpture or painting?