Common Grace

[Saiph]

Is there such a thing ? ?

My take:

Everything this side of hell is grace. There are different degrees of it though. The traditional definition being, "God's unmerited favor", does not work for my understanding of scripture. There are many people who find favor in the eyes of the Lord, to be sure, but what is the goodness God providentially grants to those who openly and actively hate Him and oppose His laws ? ?

Common grace then is the rain that falls on the unjust. Since man is totally depraved, grace that is common, would be anything God grants that man does not deserve. Since fallen man, without Christ, deserves only hell, even the breath in his lungs and the heart pumping in his chest, is a measure of God's kindness.

Also, the heathen are blessed even by association with Christians. Look how Sodom was spared atfirst because of Lot.

 

[Me Died Blue]

Another aspect of common grace is general revelation, as expressed well by WCF 1.1 when it speaks of how "the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence, do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable."

 

[Saiph]

I agree. Jeff Bartel has said he does not agree with it. Are there others ? And what would you call God's kindness to the heathen then ?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

You are correct that common grace is not really grace in the strict sense. That only applies to the elect. I prefer to think of common grace more as the benevolent nature of God toward His creatures. He does not repay evil for evil, but is longsuffering and kind. Though He fully executes his justice when He so pleases, He still treats His creatures in accordance with His humble nature, until their sentence is executed.

 

[Bladestunner316]

 

[Scott Bushey]

A simple word study on the term 'grace' will reveal it's relationship w/ Gods people alone.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[JWJ]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
A simple word study on the term 'grace' will reveal it's relatinship w/ Gods people alone.

Common grace is really a trojan horse in the Reformed camp.

Jim

 

[Jie-Huli]

I do not believe "common grace" is a scriptural concept. While it is true that the non-elect do partake of many undeserved benefits in this world, I do not think it is correct to refer to this as "grace". Nowhere in the Bible is grace used to refer to God's attitude toward the non-elect. It is used only in relation to God's dealings with His own chosen people in Christ.

"Grace", properly speaking, does not hinge on the nature of the good things of which undeserving people partake, but on the attitude of the One bestowing such things, whether it is directed towards those people in an attitude of favour or not. God is not bestowing anything on the non-elect with an attitude of favour. The non-elect are merely partaking of benefits which are in fact given by God in favour only for the good of the elect, and their stealing of these benefits without giving thanks to God for them will only be to their condemnation in the day of judgment. In that sense, since all the benefits they partake of are only heaping judgments upon their heads, I cannot see how such benefits could properly be termed "grace".

 

[Jie-Huli]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
A simple word study on the term 'grace' will reveal it's relationship w/ Gods people alone.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[Arch2k]

Originally posted by Saiph
I agree. Jeff Bartel has said he does not agree with it.

I've been ratted out!

 

[Saiph]

Maybe the english word "grace" from the french I think is just a broader term than cariV ?

I suppose in a very strict sense, by the way you are defining the word soteriologically, I would tend agree with you. But, I really do not know what word I would use in place of it.

Longsuffering ?



[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Saiph]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by Saiph
Maybe the english word "grace" from the french I think is just a broader term than cariV ?

I suppose in a very strict sense, by the way you are defining the word soteriologically, I would tend agree with you. But, I really do not know what word I would use in place of it.

Longsuffering ?

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Saiph]

Mark,
Is He longsuffering really? Was God longsuffering towards those in the days of Noah? How about Sodom?

Nineveh comes to mind; however, the majority there were ultimately Gods elect.

Jon 4:2 And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

Jon 4:11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

600,000 repentee's?




[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Common grace is a Biblical doctrine (Ps. 36.6-7, etc.) and has a long and good Reformed pedigree. The denial of it is an element of hypercalvinism. Grace means "unmerited favor." Saving grace, of course, has reference to salvation, which God only gives to the elect. But God bestows unmerited favor upon all men. The term "common" which many have a problem with does not mean "vulgar" in the modern sense but it does mean "general" (Calvin used the term "general grace" -- with reference to the unsaved -- frequently in the Institutes and elsewhere). See this thread for more info.

 

[Scott Bushey]

I'm gonna quote jeff Bartell from that thread Andrew:

"The problem with "common grace" is that it is not grace. Grace is unmerited favor. The wicked are under the covenant of works and therfore everything they get is merited. "Favor" has to do with intention. God does not use his indiscriminate providence for the betterment of the reprobate, but to fill up the measure of their sins. Psalm 92:7 says "When the wicked spring up like grass, and all the workers of iniquity flourish, it is only that they may be destroyed forever."

 

[Here2learn]

Let me say in advance I am a newbie.

I had a discussion with a man who did not believe in common grace and he was telling me we should hate the non elect. He stated God does. I asked him who is the non elect. He told me non believers. I stated to him some time ago I was a non believer too. He would not hear any of it. He said we were mandated to hate the non believers.
My question is the Grace The Lord bestowed on me before He called me would that be common, general grace. How about others who too soon will be called to faith?
Sorry if my question is grade school of sorts.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Jesus called Judas 'friend'.

Mat 26:48 Now he that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold him fast.
Mat 26:49 And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.
Mat 26:50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

God assuredly hates the reprobate; I see this as the compound sense. In the divided, we have Jesus.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Scott Bushey]

 

[Arch2k]

Psalm 92:7 is really a key verse.

That when the wicked sprouted up like grass. And all who did iniquity flourished, It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

People who advocate the term "common grace" use examples such as God sending rain to the elect and reprobate alike. The problem with such an example is that rain (while in and of itself can be a good thing) is not always used to build people up, or for their benefit. I don't think the reprobate during the great flood thought they were receiving God's grace.

The same can be said for just about all of God's provisions. God uses his Word for the benefit of the elect, but to harden the reprobate. Surely the Word of God is a good thing, but if used to damn somebody for eternity in the unquenchable fires of hell, it suddenly doesn't sound like grace anymore...and that is because it is not.

Grace is the opposite of justice. Some people get grace, others justice. The elect has the justice of their sins placed upon Christ, and this is the ONLY way we can receive grace. The reprobate do not have this, and therefore they are left with justice.

How are good things in this life "justice"? A BMW to a reprobate person is certainly not to build them up, and convert them, but to make them love the things of this world even more. They will harden themselves to the things of God, and replace it with material goods. Their God is this world.

All this being said, I think it important to explain that just because people deny the term "common grace" does not mean they deny the substance of the doctrine (more or less anyway). I wholeheartedly believe that God gives the reprobate and elect good things. He reserves his wrath until the day of judgment. Until then, he builds people up, either for destruction, or eternal life. I prefer the term "common bounty."

The denial of common grace has been dubbed by some as "hypercalvinism." This is simply not true. This may be cause to start a new thread on the definition of hypercalvinism.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Andrew,
You mention Psalm 36:

Psa 36:5 Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.
Psa 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O LORD, thou preservest man and beast.
Psa 36:7 How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings.
Psa 36:8 They shall be abundantly satisfied with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures.
Psa 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.
Psa 36:10 O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart.

I see the reference men to coincide with the same treatment of the word world/Kosmos.

 

[Saiph]

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then fall away, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Checkmate !


General grace described in the same way Judas experienced it.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

I'll just add a few more resources for the record and let it suffice at that.

Common grace was taught by Calvin, Kuyper, Hodge, Van Til, Murray, Bavinck, and Berkhof, among others.

Everything that men have -- whether elect or non-elect -- is a blessing from God. It is not merited favor, but unmerited. Those are the choices. Blessing = favor; grace = unmerited. All men are blessed. They receive favor from God. It is the sinful response to God's unmerited favor that heaps condemnation upon themselves. If God does not show favor to the non-elect, ie., does not bless them with unmerited gifts, then there is no cause to blame them when they respond ungratefully to his blessings. Common grace takes into account that God is favorable to all but allows that this favor is reserved in a saving way only for his elect, who will benefit from the unmerited goodness and benevolence that he shows to all. God's goodness towards all men is never merited, it is unmerited; hence, no matter how men respond to God's general grace, that does not change the fact that God blesses all men, and consequently, the historic Reformed understanding of this concept has been described as "general" or "common grace".

From the Scottish Metrical Psalter, Ps. 36.6-7: Lord, thou preservest man and beast./7 How precious is thy grace!

God is said to preserve both man and beast. Presumably, God preserves both non-elect and elect men, and non-elect and elect beasts (said tongue-in-cheek!).

John Murray:

In this field of inquiry no name deserves more credit than /p. 2/ that of the renowned reformer, John Calvin.2 No one was more deeply persuaded of the complete depravation of human nature by sin and of the consequent inability of unaided human nature to bring forth anything good, and so he explained the existence of good outside the sphere of God's special and saving grace by the presence of a grace that is common to all yet enjoyed by some in special degree. "œThe most certain and easy solution of this question, however, is, that those virtues are not the common properties of nature, but the peculiar graces of God, which he dispenses in great variety, and in a certain degree to men that are otherwise profane."3 The elect alone are sanctified by the Spirit; they alone are healed of sin; they alone are created anew. But all creatures by the energy of the same Spirit are replenished, actuated and quickened "œaccording to the property of each species which he has given it by the law of creation".4

and provides this definition:

"is every favour of whatever kind or degree, falling short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God"

Charles Hodge defines common grace thus:

"the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of truth, of holiness, and of life in all its forms, is present with every human mind, enforcing truth, restraining from evil, exciting to good, and imparting wisdom or strength, when, where, and in what measure seemeth to Him good. . . . This is what in theology is called common grace"

Abraham Kuyper defines it here:

"'that act of God by which negatively He curbs the operations of Satan, death, and sin, and by which positively He creates an intermediate state for this cosmos, as well as for our human race, which is and continues to be deeply and radically sinful, but in which sin cannot work out its end"

Hypercalvinism includes the denial of common grace as one of its elements, as Pastor Way has rightly affirmed, and the Protestant Reformed Church's system of theology is a prime example of this.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

 

[Saiph]

 

[JWJ]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I'll just add a few more resources for the record and let it suffice at that.

Common grace was taught by Calvin, Kuyper, Hodge, Van Til, Murray, Bavinck, and Berkhof, among others.

Everything that men have -- whether elect or non-elect -- is a blessing from God. It is not merited favor, but unmerited. Those are the choices. Blessing = favor; grace = unmerited. All men are blessed. They receive favor from God. It is the sinful response to God's unmerited favor that heaps condemnation upon themselves. If God does not show favor to the non-elect, ie., does not bless them with unmerited gifts, then there is no cause to blame them when they respond ungratefully to his blessings. Common grace takes into account that God is favorable to all but allows that this favor is reserved in a saving way only for his elect, who will benefit from the unmerited goodness and benevolence that he shows to all. God's goodness towards all men is never merited, it is unmerited; hence, no matter how men respond to God's general grace, that does not change the fact that God blesses all men, and consequently, the historic Reformed understanding of this concept has been described as "general" or "common grace".

From the Scottish Metrical Psalter, Ps. 36.6-7: Lord, thou preservest man and beast./7 How precious is thy grace!

God is said to preserve both man and beast. Presumably, God preserves both non-elect and elect men, and non-elect and elect beasts (said tongue-in-cheek!).

John Murray:

In this field of inquiry no name deserves more credit than /p. 2/ that of the renowned reformer, John Calvin.2 No one was more deeply persuaded of the complete depravation of human nature by sin and of the consequent inability of unaided human nature to bring forth anything good, and so he explained the existence of good outside the sphere of God's special and saving grace by the presence of a grace that is common to all yet enjoyed by some in special degree. "œThe most certain and easy solution of this question, however, is, that those virtues are not the common properties of nature, but the peculiar graces of God, which he dispenses in great variety, and in a certain degree to men that are otherwise profane."3 The elect alone are sanctified by the Spirit; they alone are healed of sin; they alone are created anew. But all creatures by the energy of the same Spirit are replenished, actuated and quickened "œaccording to the property of each species which he has given it by the law of creation".4

and provides this definition:

"is every favour of whatever kind or degree, falling short of salvation, which this undeserving and sin-cursed world enjoys at the hand of God"

Charles Hodge defines common grace thus:

"the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of truth, of holiness, and of life in all its forms, is present with every human mind, enforcing truth, restraining from evil, exciting to good, and imparting wisdom or strength, when, where, and in what measure seemeth to Him good. . . . This is what in theology is called common grace"

Abraham Kuyper defines it here:

"'that act of God by which negatively He curbs the operations of Satan, death, and sin, and by which positively He creates an intermediate state for this cosmos, as well as for our human race, which is and continues to be deeply and radically sinful, but in which sin cannot work out its end"

Hypercalvinism includes the denial of common grace as one of its elements, as Pastor Way has rightly affirmed, and the Protestant Reformed Church's system of theology is a prime example of this.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

Though I have limited time to discuss this matter allow me a few comments. Firstly, with all due respect, your use of these quotes does nothing to prove your point. As a matter of fact it is a type of straw-man approach that has been dealt with by others including the PRC.

Secondly, to claim that a denial of common grace justifies the charge of hyper-Calvinism is just as true as the claim that to uphold common grace justifies the charge of hypo-calvinism.

This brings me to the third and most important point. The whole issue of "common grace" is more than just semantics. Rather the issue is on what is both denied and affirmed by the use of the term. Most of what you said about God being good towards both elect and reprobate no one would argue (Even the PRC would agree with this). However, many, including myself, refuse to use this term because in today's usage of intent it implicitly denies that God is only saving the elect; that God uses these material "blessings" to further harden the hearts of the reprobate, that the gospel "offer" is only effectual towards His elect; and that God is not sincerely trying to save every person (i.e., desiring their salvation) by the gospel "offer".

Therefore we in the reformed camp should drop the term common grace just as we should drop the term free will.

Jim

 

[Arch2k]

Here are some verses to meditate on:

Genesis 15:16

But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete."

Job 21:30

For the wicked are reserved for the day of doom; They shall be brought out on the day of wrath.

Ps 73:17-20

Until I went into the sanctuary of God; Then I understood their end. Surely You set them in slippery places; You cast them down to destruction. Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment! They are utterly consumed with terrors. As a dream when one awakes,
So, Lord, when You awake, You shall despise their image.

Psalm 92:7

That when the wicked sprouted up like grass. And all who did iniquity flourished, It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

Ecc 2:26

For God gives wisdom and knowledge and joy to a man who is good in His sight; but to the sinner He gives the work of gathering and collecting, that he may give to him who is good before God. This also is vanity and grasping for the wind.

Nah 1:2

God is jealous, and the LORD avenges; The LORD avenges and is furious. The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies; The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked.

Matt 23:31

Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers´ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

John 15:22-24

If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, "˜They hated Me without a cause.´

 

[Saiph]

I agree with those scriptures Jeff. I suppose the difference AGAIN, similar to the God created evil thread, would be that blessings from God to the reprobate would be the efficient and material causes, whereas, God's glory being manifested by deepening their guilt, and eternal destruction, is the formal and final cause.

General or common grace, is from a temporal perspective.

Your take is from eternity looking down.


[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Saiph]

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
Common grace is a Biblical doctrine (Ps. 36.6-7, etc.) and has a long and good Reformed pedigree.

It may have a long and good Reformed pedigree, but the verses you list say nothing about grace (charis). In the Hebrew, the word used here is "hesed" and the LXX uses the Greek word "eleos". Both of these words refer to mercy or lovingkindness. I think the problem people have is with the specific used of the word "grace." In the NT, the only usages of "charis" involve the elect.

 

[Saiph]

In the NT, the only usages of "charis" involve the elect.

As long as we define what we mean that way, I agree with the no-common grace stance.

We are specifying a theological concept to a generic english word though.
So we should not attack someone for using the term "common grace". We just need to ask what they mean by it, and offer something better like "temporal blessings". We do a similar thing when we hear a Christian use the word "luck" right ? We say, "you mean providence".

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Saiph]

 

[Arch2k]

Originally posted by Saiph
I agree with those scriptures Jeff. I suppose the difference AGAIN, similar to the God created evil thread, would be that blessings from God to the reprobate would be the efficient and material causes, whereas, God's glory being manifested by deepening their guilt, and eternal destruction, is the formal and final cause.

General or common grace, is from a temporal perspective.

Your take is from eternity looking down.

I agree that my take is from eternity looking down. That's the problem with using the term "grace" is that it is inherantly looking from eternity down. Grace is a term from the perspective of God, not man. That is why we can only use that sense, and not the sense from man's side.

 

[Arch2k]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
Everything that men have -- whether elect or non-elect -- is a blessing from God. It is not merited favor, but unmerited.

This is the thinking that leads to common grace for sure. I find it to be wanting though.

Is rain grace? What is grace to a farmer in the time of draught is hell to the drowning reprobate in the great flood.

What is the difference? The difference is intention on the part of the giver.

If I give you a candybar (grace), but secretly give it so that you will choke on it, that isn't very gracious of me, is it?

Not everything men have is grace. Grace has a purpose, and that is the betterment of the recepient.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

James Durham had this to say in his 33rd Sermon on Isaiah 53 which may touch upon the idea of "˜common grace.´ See attachment for a PDF of this sermon and more comment.

Doctrine Two. We may consider Christ´s sufferings and death in the fruits of it, either as they respect common favors, and mercies, common gifts, and means of grace, which are not peculiar and saving, but common to believers with others, being bestowed upon professors in the visible Church; or as they are peculiar and saving, such as faith, justification, adoption, etc. Now when we say that Christ´s sufferings and death are a price for the sins of his people, we exclude not the reprobate simply from temporal and common favors and mercies that come by his death; they may have, and actually have, common gifts and works of the Spirit, the means of grace, which are some way effects and fruits of the same covenant. But we say, that the reprobate partake not of saving mercy, and that Christ´s death is a satisfaction only for the elect, and that none others get pardon of sin, faith, repentance, etc. by it, but they only; it was intended for none others. And this we clear and confirm from, and by, these following grounds and arguments, which we will shortly hint at.
"¦
For (1) It [the view that Christ suffered and died for all] makes grace a common thing; a man that is in hell to be as much obliged to Christ, as one that is in heaven. And though it plausibly pretends to give grace a broad and large extent, yet it takes away the power of it. For if grace be thus largely extended, it is not grace that makes the application of grace, but the free-will of the creature. For grace, according to this opinion, leaves men to be saved or not as they please, and leaves itself to be overcome by man´s will. And therefore these errors divide not, but go together hand in hand. For where grace is made so large, free-will is made to have a dominion over it, and thus the weight of grace and of election are laid upon it.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by NaphtaliPress]

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Wouldn't take my PDF attachment though it was only 137KB. Any ideas what went wrong?