Church Unions in the next 20 years?

[DMcFadden]

What was really sad - when I lived in Rhode Island, I lived two blocks from the first Baptist church in America in Providence (notice the small 'f' in first). So I went there once. Awesome to visit - still authentic architecture except for that Sunday's fill-in pastor who was UCC!!

The place is vacant though - the late service had only about twenty people. Kind of a big let down. I guess that is what you get when Rhode Island is like 95% RC and they have this photo of the newest pastor.

First Baptist Church in America

I knew one of the former pastors of that church. She and I toured Puerto Rico together with a group of clergy in the 90s. Her attitude was strongly in favor of the Welcoming and Affirming position vis a vis homosexuality.

 

[DMcFadden]

Frankly, the Alliance has much in common with the more liberal ABC people and the Cooperatives have more in common with the more middle-of-the-road ABC folks. For the conservatives still in the ABC, the Cooperatives are a bit to the left of most conservatives but acceptable to most (mainly because most of them are more conservative than the far left of the ABC).

Although, it seems as though I'm increasingly seeing CBF churches and people to the left of what I thought was moderate in the ABC. And, of course, there are now many churches dually or even triply associated with all three. Here's one example.

Bryan, that is what I was trying to say. Begin by placing the Alliance of Baptists at 9-10 on a "progressive" scale. The CBF would variously be at 5-9. The ABC ranges from about 3-10. So, CBF would be generally more progressive than the "conservatives" in the ABC and generally more conservative than the most liberal ABC folks.

Since the Alliance supports gay unions, they would be to the left of most American Baptists. The CBF is more progressive than the "average" ABC person, but generally less so than the crazies on the far left in the ABC or the Alliance of Baptists. But, ABC ethos strongly supports accepting "diversity" as normative. Therefore, many/most of the conservatives in the ABC would at least "tolerate" the heterodoxy/heresy of the CBF and even the Alliance as "acceptable" diversity within the "family."

The power of corporate culture is amazing. Within the ABC, tolerance has emerged as a highly prized value (since it has been linked quite successfully by the left with notions of historic Baptist "soul liberty"). I know of cases where highly positioned clergy broke up other marriages, and then married the person they were cheating with, only to continue successful "ministry" in the ABC. In at least a couple of these cases, the offending party went on to complete "ministry" to retirement and receive the accolades of the bureaucrats! Only in a group that confuses "soul liberty" with doctrinal and moral latitudinarianism (i.e., "anything goes") could such anomalies take place without hardly a blink of the eyes. I grant you that the moral case is the exception rather than the rule. However, it is the rule that doctrinal departures are frequently treated as acceptable diversity and sometimes moral ones as well.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

 

[Marrow Man]

"ARP and RPCNA"
These two have been separate in the US since 1782- when the ARP was founded! I don't see it happening until the ARP gets back to its principles of biblical worship. I would love to see it. I love the brothers in the ARP.

Actually, this has been kicked around in the last few years, according to reps from the RPCNA at our General Synod. As Benjamin alluded to, it would not be an actual "union" or "merger", per se, but more of a strengthening of the relationships. One of the suggestions a few years back was to have a joint Synod for both denominations, utilizing RPCNA principles of worship as the common ground for such an event. We even had an RPCNA pastor preach at General Synod a couple years ago, which I believe was intended to be a step in such a direction.

There apparently was a breakdown in this coming together, however. The hope is that perhaps it can be jump-started again. While I don't think the ARP will ever move back to EP and certainly never back to non-instrumental worship (once you let the genie out of the bottle, he ain't going back in, I'm afraid), I think some sort of a closer relationship would be beneficial to ARP worship practices, as you hint at. It would be healthy for the ARP to take some of its lead from the RPCNA in worship, rather than the current status quo, which largely seems to be a (gasp) PC(USA)/mainline influence.

 

[N. Eshelman]

"ARP and RPCNA"
These two have been separate in the US since 1782- when the ARP was founded! I don't see it happening until the ARP gets back to its principles of biblical worship. I would love to see it. I love the brothers in the ARP.

Actually, this has been kicked around in the last few years, according to reps from the RPCNA at our General Synod. As Benjamin alluded to, it would not be an actual "union" or "merger", per se, but more of a strengthening of the relationships. One of the suggestions a few years back was to have a joint Synod for both denominations, utilizing RPCNA principles of worship as the common ground for such an event. We even had an RPCNA pastor preach at General Synod a couple years ago, which I believe was intended to be a step in such a direction.

There apparently was a breakdown in this coming together, however. The hope is that perhaps it can be jump-started again. While I don't think the ARP will ever move back to EP and certainly never back to non-instrumental worship (once you let the genie out of the bottle, he ain't going back in, I'm afraid), I think some sort of a closer relationship would be beneficial to ARP worship practices, as you hint at. It would be healthy for the ARP to take some of its lead from the RPCNA in worship, rather than the current status quo, which largely seems to be a (gasp) PC(USA)/mainline influence.

Tim,

I am all for a close working relationship between the two. We Seceeders need to stick together! We had an ARP delegate preach at our synod this year and it was very nice to hear. I know that some of the men in the RP are working hard to rebuild those bonds. Historically, they have worked very closely but stayed only divided on the issue of political dissent... now there are more issues, of course.

I really do hope to see closer working relationships- despite The Bible Songs!