Belgic Confession-Art. XXVIII

[Bernard_Marx]

[quote:946a3b2bcd]Article XXVIII - Every One is Bound to Join Himself to the True Church

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, [b:946a3b2bcd]and outside of it there is no salvation[/b:946a3b2bcd], that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them.

And that this may be the more effectually observed, it is the duty of all believers, according to the Word of God, to separate themselves from all those who do not belong to the Church, and to join themselves to this congregation, wheresoever God has established it, even though the magistrates and edicts of princes were against it, yea, though they should suffer death or any other corporal punishment. Therefore all those who separate themselves from the same or do not join themselves to it act contrary to the ordinance of God [/quote:946a3b2bcd]

I thought that in the absence of any real discussions surrounding the doctrines of the Three Forms of Unity, I could get the ball rolling here.

What does deBres mean when he says that there is no salvation outside of the church?

Personally I think it to mean that one cannot remove him/herself from the church simply because it is the means through which the Lord [i:946a3b2bcd]works[/i:946a3b2bcd]
salvation through the Keys to the Kingdom which He has given to His church alone (HC, Lord's Day 30).

Anyone else??

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Westminster Confession 25.2:

[quote:d58a5e79d0]II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] [b:d58a5e79d0]out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation[/b:d58a5e79d0].[6]
[/quote:d58a5e79d0]

This doctrine, that there is no ordinary possibility of salvation outside of the Church, is an important and often-neglected teaching which stresses the ordained means of grace, such as preaching, corporate prayer and the sacraments. This teaching was common to the Church Fathers and Reformers, but in our day of individualistic "lone wolf Christianity" where parachurches abound along with Harold Camping's heretical but popular teaching on the "apostasy" of the Church as an institution, few understand the importance of organic union with the body of Christ, who is Head of the Church. We are commanded to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together in the Church. Church discipline can only take place in the Church. Excommunication, or casting out of the church, implies damnation. The gospel is proclaimed by the Church. The Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. The Church is visible manifestation of God's kingdom in the earth. All of this is to say that it is the duty of Christians to associate themselves with the true Church of God, wherein are the means of saving grace, and to separate oneself from the Church is really self-excommunication.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

[quote:65119020a3="Richard B. Davis"][quote:65119020a3]Article XXVIII - Every One is Bound to Join Himself to the True Church

We believe, since this holy congregation is an assembly of those who are saved, [b:65119020a3]and outside of it there is no salvation[/b:65119020a3], that no person of whatsoever state or condition he may be, ought to withdraw from it, content to be by himself; but that all men are in duty bound to join and unite themselves with it; maintaining the unity of the Church; submitting themselves to the doctrine and discipline thereof; bowing their necks under the yoke of Jesus Christ; and as mutual members of the same body, serving to the edification of the brethren, according to the talents God has given them.

And that this may be the more effectually observed, it is the duty of all believers, according to the Word of God, to separate themselves from all those who do not belong to the Church, and to join themselves to this congregation, wheresoever God has established it, even though the magistrates and edicts of princes were against it, yea, though they should suffer death or any other corporal punishment. Therefore all those who separate themselves from the same or do not join themselves to it act contrary to the ordinance of God [/quote:65119020a3]

What does deBres mean when he says that there is no salvation outside of the church?

Personally I think it to mean that one cannot remove him/herself from the church simply because it is the means through which the Lord [i:65119020a3]works[/i:65119020a3]
salvation through the Keys to the Kingdom which He has given to His church alone (HC, Lord's Day 30). [/quote:65119020a3]
I think you are right Richard. The Gospel is preached from and within the Church. When evangelists go out, they are inviting people to be joined to Christ and His body to partake of the gospel promises. I think the Westminster view is also right but they are aiming at a slightly different sense than the Belgic is going for. The Belgic seems to be emphasising more the visible church while the WCF, in the quote provided by Virg, seems to emphasise the invisible aspect of the church.

 

[Bernard_Marx]

Patrick,

Is it possible to remove yourself from the visible church and remain in the invisible church?

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Possible? Yes. Is it wise or lawful? Not at all. But I am assuming that you mean the organized congregations as the visible church. We are called to gather together. It is not the ordinary way for the Christian to live outside the visible church. But, a man may be the only profesing Christian in his area (like in a Muslim country). Is he outside the visible church? Or has he become the visible church in that area? In part, this question also has to do with how we define the visible church too. Just some thoughts.

 

[JohnV]

Well, guys, I am in the position that I have to remove myself for a time. There needs to be a time of healing. My wife and I are discussiong how we are going to do that. Basically, she's leaving it up to me to decide. But we are forced by circumstance into attending a church in which we cannot agree with their view of EP, we have difficulty with the ordination practices, and we cannot believe their view of the universal church. But the alternatives are worse.

But because of recent history I am going to have a great deal of difficulty trusting any church authority for a time. In order for me to make vows, I have to entrust my promises to men that I can trust, and I am not so eager to do that again, not after this last experience.

 

[C. Matthew McMahon]

[quote:bd465ab0c4]Is it possible to remove yourself from the visible church and remain in the invisible church?[/quote:bd465ab0c4]

How can you "love Jesus" and not love His church?

John 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."

Matthew 16:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God,

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

Ephesians 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,

1 Timothy 3:15 if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of truth.

etc.