Al Mohler: Is Matriarchy the Shape of the Future?
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Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
I understand what alot of you are saying here. But with me I have no desire to be married at this point in my life. I've never had a relationship with a female. I've been prodded by so many and its utterly anoying. Yet I see with them nothing but anger towards their wives. I dont want that. Ive been raised by my grandma and mom. They are very much apart of my life. But frankly thats enough female in my life I dont think I could stand having another in my life outside of casual friendships. I know for a fact I'm too immature or selfish? for a serious relationship-but as time moves on my desire to be in a serious relationship withers away. Id rather be on my own.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
I have to say, it is refreshing to hear this kind of honesty and not have someone jumping into marriage for all the wrong reasons.
Wannabee
Obi Wan Kenobi
Well said! Too many churches are pushing youngsters to marry when they really don't want to. Then they "feel" guilty because others tell them they "need" to get married. God will provide the maturity and bride. Rest in and trust Him.
SRoper
Puritan Board Graduate
Kevin, I share your amazement but no longer share your surprise. You may be interested in the thread Woman as Primary Bread Winner?
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
Much of it is along similar lines of something Rich said in another thread...boys are stripped of boyhood/manhood early on.
How many men in this country are raised by single mothers (single by intent in many cases...not by widowhood or the husband leaving, but because they simply think they can do it better without a man)? How about a feminised school system and one that punishes anyone that holds the concept of gender roles (from physical slaps by teachers, to forced 'counseling', to withholding of diplomas). Avoidance of issues instead of dealing with issues (yeah, we'll just forbid handholding instead of actually dealing with the real sexual offenders). The height and popularity of the metrosexual "gentleman" (thankfully polls now show that women want REAL men...beards, flannel shirts, rifles, and all). The restrictions on society. If your kid is allowed out of your sight or makes any mistake or has any kind of accident, someone will call CPS on you...thus enters enforced helicopter parenthood.
Good luck, society.
How many men in this country are raised by single mothers (single by intent in many cases...not by widowhood or the husband leaving, but because they simply think they can do it better without a man)? How about a feminised school system and one that punishes anyone that holds the concept of gender roles (from physical slaps by teachers, to forced 'counseling', to withholding of diplomas). Avoidance of issues instead of dealing with issues (yeah, we'll just forbid handholding instead of actually dealing with the real sexual offenders). The height and popularity of the metrosexual "gentleman" (thankfully polls now show that women want REAL men...beards, flannel shirts, rifles, and all). The restrictions on society. If your kid is allowed out of your sight or makes any mistake or has any kind of accident, someone will call CPS on you...thus enters enforced helicopter parenthood.
Good luck, society.
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I have come to this thread a bit late, and most of what is on my mind has already been said.
Ultimately, it is sin that has brought us to the point where we are. As I read through this, I could not help thinking about my own experience as a single woman in the 80s and early 90s. I went to college expecting to get a degree that would help me should I not get married. What I found in the working world for a women at that time was that a college degree was no good unless you had chosen a profession which brought in a high salary. The salaries for traditional "women's jobs" for women holding college degrees (secretary, bank teller, day care worker) were so low, a woman could not support herself on them.
I remember going to a job interview one day. This job required a college degree. When we got down to discussing salaries, and I was told the salary, I looked at the man who was interviewing me, and I said, "How do you expect someone to live off this salary?" His reply to me was that a woman shouldn't be working, and if she was, she would be married so it was a second income salary. In that particular case, I finally ended up taking one of the lower paying salaries and took on some piano students to make up the difference in my income. This kind of response to a single woman going to work in the 80s and early 90s was typical. My single Christian women friends (who did not hold professional degress) were forced to share apartments, drive cars that were falling apart and go with out medical insurance, if they wanted to survive financially. None of these women were flashy dressers or spent money on frivolities. None of these women were purposely staying single, they simply had not met anyone to marry at this point. A lot of these women eventually married, but also went back to school to get professional degrees so they could support themselves should anything happen to their husbands.
When I look at the combination of the impact of feminism on society, the growing irresponsibility of young men, the way society encourages young men to have fun and not work, the growth of divorce, and the fear of young women of being "stuck" supporting themselves on a "second income" salary, I'm not a bit surprised that women pursue college degrees.
Ultimately, it is sin that has brought us to the point where we are. As I read through this, I could not help thinking about my own experience as a single woman in the 80s and early 90s. I went to college expecting to get a degree that would help me should I not get married. What I found in the working world for a women at that time was that a college degree was no good unless you had chosen a profession which brought in a high salary. The salaries for traditional "women's jobs" for women holding college degrees (secretary, bank teller, day care worker) were so low, a woman could not support herself on them.
I remember going to a job interview one day. This job required a college degree. When we got down to discussing salaries, and I was told the salary, I looked at the man who was interviewing me, and I said, "How do you expect someone to live off this salary?" His reply to me was that a woman shouldn't be working, and if she was, she would be married so it was a second income salary. In that particular case, I finally ended up taking one of the lower paying salaries and took on some piano students to make up the difference in my income. This kind of response to a single woman going to work in the 80s and early 90s was typical. My single Christian women friends (who did not hold professional degress) were forced to share apartments, drive cars that were falling apart and go with out medical insurance, if they wanted to survive financially. None of these women were flashy dressers or spent money on frivolities. None of these women were purposely staying single, they simply had not met anyone to marry at this point. A lot of these women eventually married, but also went back to school to get professional degrees so they could support themselves should anything happen to their husbands.
When I look at the combination of the impact of feminism on society, the growing irresponsibility of young men, the way society encourages young men to have fun and not work, the growth of divorce, and the fear of young women of being "stuck" supporting themselves on a "second income" salary, I'm not a bit surprised that women pursue college degrees.
This is no surprise...girls have always been better at school. Now, as our society shifts from a stake-out-the-frontier to a sit-behind-a-desk society, women will excel.
Women should do as well as they can. I am not sure that it is evidence of a declining society if more women than males graduate college. They are better suited to academic environments.
The only trouble is, our society does not expect that they will be the primary caretakers of the children and take all that patience and ability to deal in indoor environments where nurturing skills, patience and feminine traits make one excell and apply it to our next generation.
P.S. the decapitation of the African American family was due to ill formed welfare policies that empowered jobless fertile women but did not empower fathers.
Where does Mohler say matriachy is coming from? I don;t usually here about the global threat of matriarchy. It appears that most dictators and tyrannical regimes were all fairly patriarchical. The rising threat of matriarchy is hard to take serious.
Women should do as well as they can. I am not sure that it is evidence of a declining society if more women than males graduate college. They are better suited to academic environments.
The only trouble is, our society does not expect that they will be the primary caretakers of the children and take all that patience and ability to deal in indoor environments where nurturing skills, patience and feminine traits make one excell and apply it to our next generation.
P.S. the decapitation of the African American family was due to ill formed welfare policies that empowered jobless fertile women but did not empower fathers.
Where does Mohler say matriachy is coming from? I don;t usually here about the global threat of matriarchy. It appears that most dictators and tyrannical regimes were all fairly patriarchical. The rising threat of matriarchy is hard to take serious.
I am starting to appreciate a little dose of light feminism after living in cultures were women are treated like property, married at 11, paid for with livestock and beaten for minor offenses. This creeping "threat of matriarchy" is a welcome change from clubbing your woman and dragging her back to the cave to rape her.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
ladyflint,
I would say my mother did so by choice through the help of both her parents. This was the wise choice as my father has 'issues' some which affect me biologically, others spiritually. But it was the wise choice. Albeit my grandparents were pentecostal-lite I was raised in a christian home where I was shown to read the bible,believe it, and pray to Christ. Which I'm so thankful for.
I would say my mother did so by choice through the help of both her parents. This was the wise choice as my father has 'issues' some which affect me biologically, others spiritually. But it was the wise choice. Albeit my grandparents were pentecostal-lite I was raised in a christian home where I was shown to read the bible,believe it, and pray to Christ. Which I'm so thankful for.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
Bladestunner, I'm refering more to the women that just didn't want to work at their marriage or have gone out and intentionally gotten pregnant with some man just so they can have a baby. We are seeing more and more of this kind of single mommyhood. You were also blessed with a grandfather that had an active role in your life. Many young men do not have that.
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
I understood that you were not jabbing at me. 
Yes I just wish the Lord did not take him home in 1988. But that is life.
Yes I just wish the Lord did not take him home in 1988. But that is life.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
LOL! There was an article about 2yrs back about it. Created a stir.
As for me...my rule was taller and older. As for my hubby...he has a beard, a bald head (most of the time...bald by choice) and flannel shirts is his thing. A "suit" to him is black jeans or dress pants (under wifely pressure) and a nice button down shirt. I finally gave away his ties. Let alone, he doesn't understand wasting $300 for a suit when he works in a cabinet shop.
As for me...my rule was taller and older. As for my hubby...he has a beard, a bald head (most of the time...bald by choice
) and flannel shirts is his thing. A "suit" to him is black jeans or dress pants (under wifely pressure) and a nice button down shirt. I finally gave away his ties. Let alone, he doesn't understand wasting $300 for a suit when he works in a cabinet shop.
Wannabee
Obi Wan Kenobi
This needs to be rethought. I don't know that anyone caught it, but it shows a sort of "either/or" mentality that is foreign to a biblical understanding of male/female roles. Both choices above are abominations. There's nothing about feminism that is superior to chauvinism, regardless of the degree. Both are horribly sinful.
Christianity brings dignity to the woman's role in both the home and society. This is not because of anything we do or have achieved, but because it is God's design. Both genders are created in the image of God and therefore inherit a certain dignity as image bearers. But, just as our worth is not based on color or gender, neither is it determined by our roles. A woman who bucks against her God given role is just as much an abomination as a man who abuses his. And the same can be said for the man who fails to embrace the responsibility God has given him.
Personally, I can find nothing more beautiful, encouraging or glorious on this earth than a woman who fully embraces the wonderful position God has given her and blooms there. Such precious submission to God makes even a plain woman shine with a brilliance that causes wonder and brings great honor to both her husband and God almighty. May more women seize this precious treasure, becoming great treasures in their homes, churches and communities.
LadyFlynt
Puritan Board Doctor
We were explaining this to our children the other week. What the strong role of men in society was and ways that it plays out (under God's standards). And the strong role of women society as God created their role. Society does need both...but in their proper role. Both being equally important...but important to be properly placed. Patriarchy does not mean women are not vital...they are VERY vital. Women are also communicators and the ones that pass on from one generation of women to the next what they need and need to know. With women trying to ursurp men's roles (the kind that do it out of desire, not necessity) and rejecting motherhood in manner it was created to be, leave the next generation with little to go on. Do you know how much backpeddling and figuring things out on my own simply because my mother worked, couldn't cook, etc? I even had to have a neighbour teach me to boil water. My daughters will have it easier than I. At the same time, we need to be careful that there isn't an inbalance where the idea of men's roles negate any female. Instead they are supposed to revere them in their roles and encourage them just as a wife if to encourage her husband in his.
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Wow! LadyFlynt, I can't imagine my mother not teaching me these things. We were taking turns cooking dinner for the family by the time I was 12 years old. My mother is/was an amazing woman. She managed to teach all of us (girls, had not boys) to cook, clean, sew and manage a household. I am doing the same for my daughters. She also taught us the importance of being able to support ourselves if and when it was necessary, but that family comes first. My mother also had a profession, but kept it to a few hours a week while we were home, so that she could be there for us. She, along with my father of course, made sure we had a Christian education. I am thankful for that upbringing.
SRoper
Puritan Board Graduate
Yeah they like beards. Don't know about flannel shirts, though.
Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
Some like them if they are kept trimmed up. I think the results will be different with the RL Dabney/ZZ Top style beard. Well, that's what my wife says anyway.
Pilgrim
Puritanboard Commissioner
Based on what?
With posts like this sometimes it is hard to take you serious.
But seriously I think this is more of a problem in the West. (As you note, things are to the opposite extreme in many parts of the world.) To boil it down Mohler basically says it is due to rejection of the Bible. He doesn't blame women so much as he blames men. Nature abhors a vacuum, etc. We are now faced with a situation where men are increasingly either beasts or wimps.
Wannabee
Obi Wan Kenobi
My wife does. In fact, I'm wearing both right now, plus flannel lined blue jeans. And if I smell like camp fire.... watch out.... grrrrrrr....
Bladestunner316
Puritan Board Doctor
OT: Im happy to see you here Joe
I post many things to counter PB Group-think.
Here is what I often see happening in Christian circles: An article comes along knocking something and then this thing becomes the new public enemy number one. Hary Potter, the Passion of the Christ, etc.... one's orthodoxy then becomes how violently we throw rocks at the infidel.
It is often Group-Think, plain and simple.
Among Christian cirlces, every week a new cause for the decline of the West pops up, evolution, feminism, no prayer in school, the Gubbermint, Aspartame, women preachers, etc and many folks then collectivley form a lynch mob and decry this great evil.
I want to again challenge that matriachalism is the cause for the decline of Western civilization. It is a tertiary symptom at the most.
A lot of women graduating college is certainly not a sign that we are doomed. In fact, I think it is a sign that we are an open and free society - and these are GOOD things for which I praise God.
Again, most of the evil regimes of the world are patriarchal. The biggest threats to the world are male led threats. Men wreck the world much more efficiently than women do.
Feminism is a slight nuisance, but even feminism has some good points about it and Christian teachings on women provided the impetus for many of the early "feminists".
This issue is definitely more of a problem in the West. In many countries, I would applaud some victories for feminists.
Matriarchalism is not the New Red Menace. The problem lies deeper.
Here is what I often see happening in Christian circles: An article comes along knocking something and then this thing becomes the new public enemy number one. Hary Potter, the Passion of the Christ, etc.... one's orthodoxy then becomes how violently we throw rocks at the infidel.
It is often Group-Think, plain and simple.
Among Christian cirlces, every week a new cause for the decline of the West pops up, evolution, feminism, no prayer in school, the Gubbermint, Aspartame, women preachers, etc and many folks then collectivley form a lynch mob and decry this great evil.
I want to again challenge that matriachalism is the cause for the decline of Western civilization. It is a tertiary symptom at the most.
A lot of women graduating college is certainly not a sign that we are doomed. In fact, I think it is a sign that we are an open and free society - and these are GOOD things for which I praise God.
Again, most of the evil regimes of the world are patriarchal. The biggest threats to the world are male led threats. Men wreck the world much more efficiently than women do.
Feminism is a slight nuisance, but even feminism has some good points about it and Christian teachings on women provided the impetus for many of the early "feminists".
This issue is definitely more of a problem in the West. In many countries, I would applaud some victories for feminists.
Matriarchalism is not the New Red Menace. The problem lies deeper.
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
Amen.
I've got the beard, rifle, and basically cycle through a collection of wool shirts in winter. My wife likes to trim my beard once a week to keep it managable but would wonder who I was if I ever shaved it off.
Namby-pamby nancy boys do seem to be on the decline for the most part. I could never wrap my head around why the 'metrosexual' look ever gained any ground; it's just not normal. A bit queer, actually.
kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
Pergy, while I don't think it is the rise of the New Red Menace (though I do like that phrase), and agree it is a symptom of something deeper, I don't see a good angle to it. I don't know that there is such a thing as a good angle when a secular solution is applied to a spiritual problem.
I see the violent redneck patriarchal dictators as the devil in a red bodysuit with a goatee, trident, and a bifurcated tail.
The rise of the matriarchy is a 'progressive' devil in a business suit who uses genteel lingo, is well mannered, and is just making the best of a bad situation.
The first devil jolts you and you see it for what it is while the second soothes you into complacency as you die.
As for throwing rocks at the infidel, it is more an issue of why you are throwing them. If it is group think, then you are indeed off-target. But if it is because you have a conviction that these things are wrong, then by all means warn your brothers.
I see the violent redneck patriarchal dictators as the devil in a red bodysuit with a goatee, trident, and a bifurcated tail.
The rise of the matriarchy is a 'progressive' devil in a business suit who uses genteel lingo, is well mannered, and is just making the best of a bad situation.
The first devil jolts you and you see it for what it is while the second soothes you into complacency as you die.
As for throwing rocks at the infidel, it is more an issue of why you are throwing them. If it is group think, then you are indeed off-target. But if it is because you have a conviction that these things are wrong, then by all means warn your brothers.
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kvanlaan
Puritan Board Doctor
No, you're not (at least your pictures suggest nothing of the sort). I was trying to counter your portrayal of the wicked patriarchal tin pot dictator and the not-so-bad feminist theorist and leader. I just don't see it this way.
So please don't take that as my pointing a finger at you. I am simply saying that this is a subtle move of wickedness on the earth by the Prince of the air, it is just not a blatant and in-your-face issue like the aforementioned patriarchal dictator. I do not agree with your assessment of the situation, I see it as more sinister.
As for you yourself, you haven't shaved your beard down to a goatee and grown a tail, have you?
So please don't take that as my pointing a finger at you. I am simply saying that this is a subtle move of wickedness on the earth by the Prince of the air, it is just not a blatant and in-your-face issue like the aforementioned patriarchal dictator. I do not agree with your assessment of the situation, I see it as more sinister.
As for you yourself, you haven't shaved your beard down to a goatee and grown a tail, have you?
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