A Reformed Look At Christian Hedonism-1

[BuddyOfDavidClarkson]

Agreed. Well said.

My issue with Piper is that he seems to be pushing a sanctified selfishness. Should we enjoy God? You betcha. That is an outgrowth of coming to Him for salvation and living before Him each moment though. Not pursuing "...my joy" for its own sake.

When I read the gospels, I don't read Jesus perpetually pushing people's lack of joy. That is what I hear when I listen to Piper. When I read the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus seems to be indicating that people's motivation for coming to Him is their burden of sin.

Originally posted by armourbearer
R. L. Dabney's Sensualistic Philiosophy, chapter 12, provides a refutation of all utilitarian schemes of ethics, including Edwards' "least obnoxious" Benevolence scheme. Dabney argues that it makes man himself a part of his chief end, and hence "a part of his own God." Edwards' view is brought out clearly by his disciple, Samuel Hopkins, who concluded that self-interest must remain practically each man's immediate guide. A Holy Spirit guided reading of Deuteronomy will serve as a useful medicine to counteract this poison.

 

[Presbyrino]

Originally posted by turmeric

If God wanted us to think about the Christian life inside of a jingle, he would have given us the written worrd on a fortune cookie.

Matt, I don't agree with you about Piper, but that was a funny quotable quote!!

I don't agree with Matt either and I don't think his comments were funny either

But maybe I'm just when one of those "dumb", "not so truly reformed" evangelicals with a short attention span who needs to have theology spoon-fed to me in "thirty-second jingles".

I thank God daily for his grace and mercy, for blessing me with patient pastors who are willing to condescend to my level and bear with me and feed me the milk of the word.

 

[Founded on the Rock]

AMEN STEVE!

 

[BuddyOfDavidClarkson]

I think Matt is being misunderstand. I think he's saying that Piper is trying to boil the Christian life down to one statement and it's not possible.

I think the other thing that is at issue here, is Piper's views "...the pure milk of the Word"?

Originally posted by Presbyrino

Originally posted by turmeric

If God wanted us to think about the Christian life inside of a jingle, he would have given us the written worrd on a fortune cookie.

Matt, I don't agree with you about Piper, but that was a funny quotable quote!!

I don't agree with Matt either and I don't think his comments were funny either

But maybe I'm just when one of those "dumb", "not so truly reformed" evangelicals with a short attention span who needs to have theology spoon-fed to me in "thirty-second jingles".

I thank God daily for his grace and mercy, for blessing me with patient pastors who are willing to condescend to my level and bear with me and feed me the milk of the word.

 

[RamistThomist]

I think he's saying that Piper is trying to boil the Christian life down to one statement and it's not possible.

And I just don't see how this assertion flies. Sure, we can take issue with his statement on other grounds, but given the nature of his sermons (he goes over my head--and I look for intellectual stuff) and the length and depth of his books (his main three are well over 275 pages and are heavily footnoted) show that he is not into soundbyutes.

Now I am going to hit close to home: RC Sproul and Jim Packer are infinitely easier to read than Piper. Packer's book, while superb, would more eaisly fit the charge of soundbyte.

 

[RamistThomist]

Btw, I am not endorsing Piper's system en toto. I am just disputing the claim that he is soundbyte. I see a few problems in his Christian hedonism. Anyway, I would more closely be in the ethical train of Dabney and Bahnsen.

 

[3John2]

I have to agree with Draught Horse & Prespyrino. I'm no theologian far from it but I am doing my best to grow in the Word. I went from a Roman Catholic to a Charismatic/WOF believer. It was LARGELY because of Piper & Sproul that I came to be a Reformed believer. Pipers "Desiring God" (the expanded edition) was & continues to be a pivotal book in my life. I came across it when I was going through a tough time accepting TULIP & other Reformed points. God used Piper to change my life. The magnitude of what he wrote made a lasting imprint on my life. It continues to impact me to this day.
I fully agree with his view on Christian Hedonism & apart from that has further pushed me to study Edwards & has turned me on to other people such as Ligon Duncan & Mark Dever (well basically the TOgether 4 The Gospel bunch).
I will be forever indebted to this man for what he is doing in spreading the Reformed faith.
I don't feel "adequate" enough to get into the deeper aspects on his views & methods but I will say that have arrive to the point of being Reformed largely because of him. I'm sure there are others out there as well.

 

[3John2]

I have to agree with Draught Horse & Prespyrino. I'm no theologian far from it but I am doing my best to grow in the Word. I went from a Roman Catholic to a Charismatic/WOF believer. It was LARGELY because of Piper & Sproul that I came to be a Reformed believer. Pipers "Desiring God" (the expanded edition) was & continues to be a pivotal book in my life. I came across it when I was going through a tough time accepting TULIP & other Reformed points. God used Piper to change my life. The magnitude of what he wrote made a lasting imprint on my life. It continues to impact me to this day.
I fully agree with his view on Christian Hedonism & apart from that has further pushed me to study Edwards & has turned me on to other people such as Ligon Duncan & Mark Dever (well basically the TOgether 4 The Gospel bunch).
I will be forever indebted to this man for what he is doing in spreading the Reformed faith.
I don't feel "adequate" enough to get into the deeper aspects on his views & methods but I will say that have arrive to the point of being Reformed largely because of him. I'm sure there are others out there as well.

 

[caddy]

^^^

Well said

...and I am a Piper Fan