70 AD vs. Second coming

[arapahoepark]

I have been finding out through commentaries, particularly John Gill and NT Wright that they hold basically the same view of the olivet discourse, that it refers not to the second coming but 70 AD. The second coming though is true and elsewhere mentioned.
What are some views of the discourse, where 70 ad and the second relate? Where are the two questions seperated, verse 36 or earlier? What is the best way to go about the Olivet discourse? What of double fulfillment?

 

[KMK]

What of double fulfillment?

You should define what you mean by this term.

 

[Scott1]

Westminster Larger Catechism

Q. 53. How was Christ exalted in his ascension?

A. Christ was exalted in his ascension, in that having after his resurrection often appeared unto and conversed with his apostles, speaking to them of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God,[220] and giving them commission to preach the gospel to all nations,[221] forty days after his resurrection, he, in our nature, and as our head,[222] triumphing over enemies,[223] visibly went up into the highest heavens, there to receive gifts for men,[224] to raise up our affections thither,[225] and to prepare a place for us,[226] where he himself is, and shall continue till his second coming at the end of the world.[227]

The Second Coming is at the end of the world, that is, when Christ returns to judge all men.

It is not in any sense when, in fulfillment of Prophecy, the Old Testament nation of Israel was judged and the nation disbursed in 70A.D. by means of the Roman General, Titus.

If you are referring to Matthew 24, sometimes called the Olivet Discourse, it is generally taken to be talking about two events, the destruction of the Old Testament theocracy of Israel and the Second Coming, two different events. And there are varied understandings of which passages there are speaking of which. The early part of the chapter, e.g. v. 2 is talking about 70 AD, but it does then appear to shift to talking about the Second Coming.

 

[TylerRay]

When I studied this issue out last year (it's not fresh on my mind), I came to the conclusion that the whole of the discourse is about 70 A. D. and the Second Advent. Christ's coming in Judgment in 70 A. D. is treated as a type of his coming in judgment at the end of history. In some places in the discourse, the type is seen more clearly; in others, the antitype. I had just studied through all the prophets (family worship) before coming to Matthew, and I found that having my mind in tune with how prophesy works throughout the Scriptures was helpful.

I think the view that I came to is the same as Ridderbos holds forth in his commentary on Matthew. This was an extremely helpful commentary throughout, for what it's worth.

 

[Scott1]

Always helpful and worth considering, Mr. Calvin's Commentary, Matthew 24:1-8:
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/calvin/matthew/24.htm

Matthew 24:1. And Jesus went out. The disciples undoubtedly perceived that Christ was paying, as it were, his last adieu to the temple. It remained, therefor that he should erect a new temple far more magnificent, and that he should produce a more flourishing condition of the kingdom, as had been foretold by the Prophets; for he had nothing to do with that temple, in which every thing was opposed to him. But again, the disciples could not believe that the magnificent splendor of the temple would give way to Christ. And it ought to be carefully observed that, owing to the prodigious costliness of the temple, their eyes were so dazzled by the splendor of its present aspect, that they could scarcely entertain the hope that the kingdom of Christ would arise. They do not, indeed, in express terms acknowledge their hesitation, but they tacitly throw out a suggestion of it, when they allege, in opposition to Christ, the mass of stones which must be got out of the way, and which must indeed be utterly laid low if he intended to reign. Many simple persons of our own day are carried away by a similar admiration of Popery; for, perceiving it to be supported by very great wealth and by immense power, they are filled with absolute amazement, so as to despise a Church of mean and slovenly aspect. Many even think that we are mad in laboring to effect its destruction, as if this were nothing less than an attempt to draw down the sun out of heaven. And yet, there is no reason to wonder that a spectacle so imposing held the disciples of Christ in astonishment; for how great expense that building cost Herod, may be concluded from the single fact, that he kept ten thousand workmen employed on it for eight successive years. Nor is it without reason that they admire the stones which, Josephus tells us, were superlatively beautiful, and were fifteen [125] cubits in length, twelve in height, and eight in breadth. Besides, so great was the reverence entertained for the temple even in remote districts, that scarcely any person would venture to suppose that it could ever be destroyed.

2. Verily I say to you. As the vast size and wealth of the temple, like a veil hung before the eyes of the disciples, did not permit them to elevate their faith to the true reign of Christ, which was still future, so he affirms with an oath, that those things which occupy their attention will quickly perish. This prediction of the destruction of the temple, therefore, opened up a path for the ignorant and weak. [126] Now, though it was advantageous that the temple should be destroyed, lest its services and shadows might exercise an undue influence on the Jews, who were already too much attached to earthly elements, yet the chief reason was, that God determined, by this dreadful example, to take vengeance on that nation, for having rejected his Son, and despised the grace which was brought by him. And, therefore, this threatening must have intimidated the disciples from taking part with a rebellious people; as the punishments which Scripture denounces against the wicked ought now to deter us from those crimes which provoke the wrath of God. Every thing that it tells us, even about the fading and transitory aspect of the world, ought to correct the vanity of our senses, which too eagerly follow pomp, and luxury, and pleasure. But more especially, what it declares respecting the fearful destruction of Antichrist and his followers, ought to remove every obstacle which hinders us from pursuing the right course of faith.

3. And while he was sitting. Mark mentions four disciples, Peter, James, John, and Andrew But neither he nor Luke states the matter so fully as Matthew; for they only say that the disciples inquired about the time of the destruction of the temple, and -- as it was a thing difficult to be believed -- what outward sign of it God would give from heaven. Matthew tells us that they inquired about the time of Christ's coming, and of the end of the world. But it must be observed that, having believed from their infancy that the temple would stand till the end of time, and having this opinion deeply rooted in their minds, they did not suppose that, while the building of the world stood, the temple could fall to ruins. Accordingly, as soon as Christ said that the temple would be destroyed, their thoughts immediately turned to the end of the world; and--as one error leads to another--having been convinced that, as soon as the reign of Christ should commence, they would be in every respect happy, they leave warfare out of the account, and fly all at once to a triumph. They associate the coming of Christ and the end of the world as things inseparable from each other; and by the end of the world they mean the restoration of all things, so that nothing may be wanting to complete the happiness of the godly.

We now perceive that they leap at once to various questions, because they had given way to these foolish imaginations, that the temple could not fall without shaking the whole world; that the termination of the shadows of the Law, and of the whole world, would be the same; that it would be immediately followed by the exhibition of the glory of Christ's kingdom, which would make the children of God perfectly happy; that a visible renovation of the world was at hand, which would instantly bring order out of a state of confusion. But above all, a foolish hope which they entertained, as to the immediate reign of Christ, drove them to hasten to the attainment of happiness and rest, without attending to the means. Just as, when they see that Christ is risen from the dead, (Acts 1:6,) they rush forward to grasp at that happiness, which is laid up for us in heaven, and which must be attained through faith and patience.

Now though our condition is different, because we have not been educated among the shadows of the Law, so as to be infatuated by that superstition of an earthly kingdom of Christ, yet scarcely one person in a hundred is to be found who does not labor under a very similar disease. For since all men naturally shrink from annoyances, combats, and every kind of cross, the dislike of these things urges them, without moderation and without hope, to rush forward unseasonably to the fruit of hope. Thus no man wishes to sow the seed, but all wish to reap the harvest before the season arrives. To return to the disciples, they had indeed formed in their minds some good seed of faith, but they do not wait till it arrive at maturity; and holding, at the same time, erroneous views, they confound the perfection of Christ's reign with the commencement of it, and wish to enjoy on earth what they ought to seek for in heaven.

4. And Jesus answering said to them. They received an answer very different from what they had expected; for whereas they were eager for a triumph, as if they had already finished their warfare, Christ exhorts them to long patience. As if he had said, "You wish to seize the prize at the very outset, but you must first finish the course. You would draw down to earth the kingdom of God, which no man can obtain till he ascend to heaven." Now while this chapter contains admonitions highly useful for regulating the course of our life, we see that, by a wonderful purpose of God, the mistake into which the apostles fell is made to turn to our advantage. The amount of the present instruction is, that the preaching of the Gospel is like sowing the seed, and therefore we ought to wait patiently for the time of reaping; and that it arises from improper delicacy or effeminacy, if we lose courage on account of the frost, or snow, or clouds of winter or other unpleasant seasons.

Take heed lest any man deceive you. There are two charges which Christ expressly gives to the disciples, to beware of false teachers, and not to be terrified by scandals. By these words he gives warning that his Church, so long as its pilgrimage in the world shall last, will be exposed to these evils. But they might be apt to think that this was inconsistent, since the prophets gave a widely different description of the future reign of Christ. Isaiah predicts that all will then be taught of God, (54:13.) The words of God are:

I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy;
your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams, (Joel 2:28.)

A still more abundant light of understanding is promised by Jeremiah.

No longer shall any man teach his neighbor, nor a man his brother, saying, Know the Lord; for all shall know me from the least to the greatest, (Jeremiah 31:34.)

And, therefore, we need not wonder if the Jews expected, that when the Sun of righteousness had arisen, as Malachi (4:2) had predicted, they would be entirely free from every cloud of error. Hence, also, the woman of Samaria said,

When the Messiah cometh, he will teach us all things, (John 4:25.)

Now we know what splendid promises of peace, righteousness, joy, and abundance of all blessings, are to be found everywhere in Scripture. We need not, therefore, wonder if they expected that, at the coming of Christ, they would be delivered from commotions of war, from extortions and every kind of injustice, and, in short, from famine and pestilence.

But Christ warns them, that false teachers will henceforth give no less annoyance to the godly than false prophets gave to the ancient people; and that disturbances will be not less frequent under the Gospel than they formerly were under the Law. Not that those prophecies which I have just mentioned will fail to be accomplished, but because the full accomplishment of them does not immediately appear in one day; for it is enough that believers now obtain a taste of those blessings, so as to cherish the hope of the full enjoyment of them at a future period. And, therefore, they were greatly mistaken, who wished to hay at the commencement of the Gospel, an immediate and perfect exhibition of those things which we see accomplished from day to day. Besides, that happiness which the prophets ascribe to the reign of Christ, though it cannot be altogether annihilated by the depravity of man, is retarded or delayed by it. It is true that the Lord, in contending with the malice of men, opens up a way for his blessings through every obstacle; and, indeed, it would be unreasonable to suppose that what is founded on the undeserved goodness of God, and does not depend on the will of man, should be set aside through their fault.

Yet, that they may receive some punishment for their ingratitude he drops upon them in small measure his favors, which would otherwise flow on them in the richest abundance. Hence arises a labyrinth of evils, through which believers wander all their life, though they are pursuing the straight road to salvation, having Christ for their guide, who holds out to them the torch of his Gospel. Hence arises a multitude of combats, so that they have a hard warfare, though there is no danger of their being vanquished. Hence arise disturbances so numerous and so sudden, that they are kept in perpetual uneasiness, though, resting on Christ, they remain firm to the end. And since Christ enjoins his disciples to beware of impostures, let us know that the means of defense will not be wanting, provided that they are not wanting to themselves. [127] And therefore, whatever arts Satan may employ, let us entertain no doubt that we shall be safe from them, if every one of us keep diligent watch on his own station.

5. For many shall come in my name. He does not as yet speak generally of false and perverse doctrines, but refers to one class which was sort of introduction to all errors, by which Satan has attempted, in various ways, to corrupt the pure doctrine of the Gospel. For shortly after Christ's resurrection, there arose impostors, every one of whom professed to be the Christ. And as the true Redeemer had not only been removed from the world, but oppressed by the ignominy of the cross, and yet the minds of all were excited by the hope and inflamed with the desire of redemption, those men had in their power a plausible opportunity of deceiving. Nor can it be doubted, that God permitted such reveries to impose on the Jews, who had so basely rejected his Son. Though those mad attempts speedily disappeared, yet God determined that disturbances of this kind should arise among the Jews; first, that they might be exposed to infamy and hatred; secondly, that they might altogether abandon the hope of salvation; and, lastly, that having been so frequently disappointed, they might rush to their destruction with brutal stupidity. For when the world turned away from the Son of God, to whom it belonged to collect them into holy union, it was right that it should be driven hither and thither by tempests; and by the same vengeance of God it was brought about, that more were carried away by a foolish credulity, than were brought by a right faith to obey God. This circumstance, too, was expressly stated by Christ, that believers might not faint at perceiving the crowd of madmen; for we know how prone we are to follow a multitude, especially when we are few in number.

6 For you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. He describes here those commotions only which arose in Judea, for we shall find him soon afterwards saying that the flame will spread much wider. As he had formerly enjoined them to beware lest any man deceived them, so now he bids them meet with courage rumors of wars and wars themselves; for they would be in danger of giving way when surrounded by calamities, especially if they had promised to themselves ease and pleasure.

For all these things must take place. He adds this, not for the purpose of assigning a reason, but of warning them that none of these things happened accidentally, or without the providence of God, that they may not uselessly kick against the spur; for nothing has a more powerful efficacy to bring us into subjection, than when we acknowledge that those things which appear to be confused are regulated by the good pleasure of God. True, indeed, God himself never wants proper causes and the best reasons for allowing the world to be disturbed; but as believers ought to acquiesce in his mere good pleasure, Christ reckoned it enough to exhort the disciples to prepare their minds for endurance, and to remain firm, because such is the will of God.

But the end is not yet. He now states in plainer terms the threatening which I have already mentioned, that those events which were in themselves truly distressing would be only a sort of preparation for greater calamities; because, when the flame of war has been kindled in Judea, it will spread more widely; for ever since the doctrine of the Gospel was published, a similar ingratitude prevailing among other nations has aroused the wrath of God against them. Hence it happened that, having broken the bond of peace with God, they tore themselves by mutual contentions; having refused to obey the government of God, they yielded to the violence of their enemies; not having permitted themselves to be reconciled to God, they broke out into quarrels with one another; in short, having shut themselves out from the heavenly salvation, they raged against each other, and filled the earth with murders. Knowing how obstinate the malice of the world would be, he again adds,

8. But all these things are the beginnings of sorrows. Not that believers, who always have abundant consolations in calamities, should consume themselves with grief, but that they should lay their account with a long exercise of patience. Luke adds likewise earthquakes, and signs from heaven, with respect to which, though we have no authentic history of them, yet it is enough that they were predicted by Christ. The reader will find the rest in Josephus, (Wars of the Jews, VI. 5:3.)

 

[Peairtach]

It's worth noting that Christ denies that He will be coming again at that point, however much it was a judgment in providence that anticipated it.

See Matthew 24:23-27. Christ says that when He returns He will be visible to all (v.27).

Verse 36 is an important diviision in Matthew 24 and 25 because up until then Christ is speaking of events which he knows and says will happen within a generation, with maybe also some eschatalogical perspective of His Second Advent anticipated in that.

From verse 36 to the end of chapter 25 we have parables and predictions of the Second Advent. Christ says that He does not know in His finite human soul when this will be, except to indicate that He will be away for a long time, certaily much longer than a generation. E.g. v.48.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Leslie]

There is no problem with double fulfillment. The prophecy of Joel about the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was pre-fulfilled at Pentecost, but Peter's statement only identifies the tongues as the same phenomenon Joel talked about. The real fulfillment will be in the last days. LIkewise Antiochus Epiphanes was a prefulfillment of the prophecy about the Antichrist, David was a pre-Messiah, etc. Prophecies frequently mix near and far fulfillments. Humans become hung up on chronology, at least in the West, but the scriptures de-emphasize chronology. At least this is my understanding.

 

[TylerRay]

It seems to me that "double-fulfillment" is best understood as typology in prophecy. That's Fairbairn's position, and I think it is a sounder rule than a loose kind of view of multiple fulfillments.

To put it plainly, something is prophesied of, and in the literary context of that prophesy, the event prophesied of points to a greater event (i. e., the type and antitype).

 

[KMK]

I have never heard the 'double fulfillment' accusation raised by any but hyper-preterists.

 

[R Harris]

For me, verse 34 is absolutely key:

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place."

The "these things" has to refer to all that Jesus has spoken of up until that point. The real debate is what is meant by "this generation," which has been the hot debating point between DeMar/Gentry and their dispensational opponents.

I think DeMar has made a convincing case in that wherever in the Gospels the term "this generation" was used, it always referred to that generation that Jesus and the disciples were a part of. Thus, one is hard pressed to prove that the phrase in 24:34 suddenly meant something different, namely all generations in the future or the particular generation that will exist at the time when Jesus does return.

Indeed, when one reads the writings of Josephus (e.g. Antiquities, Jewish Wars), one can see almost all of the events in 3-33 spoken of explicitly by him with specific examples, even though his intent was certainly not to prove preterism or the validity of that Gospel.

 

[Leslie]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. Also the phrase to take place can mean the pre-fulfillment or the final fulfillment (call it typology if you will).

 

[Peairtach]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. Also the phrase to take place can mean the pre-fulfillment or the final fulfillment (call it typology if you will).

How would those standing round our Lord have understood "this generation"? Also, it doesn't matter two hoots whether someone in "Judea" runs to the mountains or stays where he is when our Lord returns ( cf. vv.16-20). The important thing is that he knows and loves the Lord.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

 

[earl40]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. Also the phrase to take place can mean the pre-fulfillment or the final fulfillment (call it typology if you will).

How would those standing round our Lord have understood "this generation"? Also, it doesn't matter two hoots whether someone in "Judea" runs to the mountains or stays where he is when our Lord returns ( cf. vv.16-20). The important thing is that he knows and loves the Lord.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

The important thing is that when the Romans came in 70 A.D. the ones who heeded our Lord's warning (gave a hoot) ran to the hills and were not slaughtered.

 

[Leslie]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. Also the phrase to take place can mean the pre-fulfillment or the final fulfillment (call it typology if you will).

How would those standing round our Lord have understood "this generation"? Also, it doesn't matter two hoots whether someone in "Judea" runs to the mountains or stays where he is when our Lord returns ( cf. vv.16-20). The important thing is that he knows and loves the Lord.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

The important thing is that when the Romans came in 70 A.D. the ones who heeded our Lord's warning (gave a hoot) ran to the hills and were not slaughtered.

This is a case in point for double fulfillment. I assume you refer to Matthew 24. True, the Christians understood the words of Christ and fled Jerusalem, saved themselves. However the sun was not darkened nor the moon turned to blood immediately after that time. It's my understanding that AD 70 was a fulfillment, something like pentecost was the same phenomenon that Joel described, though not its ultimate fulfillment. Jerusalem will again be surrounded by armies; there will again be an antichrist and tribulation, followed by the second coming. Is there a problem with this understanding?

 

[earl40]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. Also the phrase to take place can mean the pre-fulfillment or the final fulfillment (call it typology if you will).

How would those standing round our Lord have understood "this generation"? Also, it doesn't matter two hoots whether someone in "Judea" runs to the mountains or stays where he is when our Lord returns ( cf. vv.16-20). The important thing is that he knows and loves the Lord.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2

The important thing is that when the Romans came in 70 A.D. the ones who heeded our Lord's warning (gave a hoot) ran to the hills and were not slaughtered.

This is a case in point for double fulfillment. I assume you refer to Matthew 24. True, the Christians understood the words of Christ and fled Jerusalem, saved themselves. However the sun was not darkened nor the moon turned to blood immediately after that time. It's my understanding that AD 70 was a fulfillment, something like pentecost was the same phenomenon that Joel described, though not its ultimate fulfillment. Jerusalem will again be surrounded by armies; there will again be an antichrist and tribulation, followed by the second coming. Is there a problem with this understanding?

2 questions were asked and 2 answers were given. Do I have it figured out? Nope.

First question.......Tell us, when shall these things be? (There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.)

First answer......4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Second question......and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Second answer.......37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Mushroom]

However the sun was not darkened nor the moon turned to blood immediately after that time.

From what historical record do you derive this assertion?

 

[Turtle]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. .....

Good point.

The "generation" was promised to see the fulfillment of particular things.

To whatever extent Jesus' prophesied the mourning of "all the tribes of the earth", and to the extent He prophesied the gathering of the "elect from the four winds"... the events of 70 A.D. don't appear to be an obvious fulfillment.

To the extent the prophecy is unfulfilled, His opening caution to "take heed that no man deceive you", and the necessity to "endure", remains.

 

[Turtle]

The term "this generation" can either mean those standing around Jesus, or the generation when these things start happening. In other words, when it happens, it will happen fast, within a generation. Also the phrase to take place can mean the pre-fulfillment or the final fulfillment (call it typology if you will).

How would those standing round our Lord have understood "this generation"?....

I think you ask an excellent question that gets to the real point... How would THEY understand it?

Would they not understand His prediction in light of the parable of the fig tree?...

"Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

If the generation to which He spoke was seeing the "fig tree put forth its leaves", so to speak, then they indeed understood Jesus was telling them "summer was nigh", and He was telling their generation they would see the fulfillment of it all.

If on the other hand they did not see the "fig tree put forth its leaves", then it is reasonable that they knew Jesus was referring to a future generation that would see "the summer" on the doorstep, as it were.