Thoughts on Repetitive Prayer?

[Reformed Catholic]

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." -Matthew 6.7

This passage of Scripture is often used by evangelicals to condemn repetitive prayers such as the Rosary and the Eastern Orthodox Jesus Prayer (Khombiskini prayer ropes), but I've even heard this passage be used to condemn written prayer altogether.
Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics, on the other hand, will say that Jesus was using idiomatic language here and not condemning repetitive prayers altogether.

What are your thoughts on what constitutes "vain repetitions" and what has the Reformed position been historically on repetitive prayers?

 

[Jake]

WLC Q. 187. How is the Lord’s Prayer to be used?
A. The Lord’s Prayer is not only for direction, as a pattern, according to which we are to make other prayers; but may also be used as a prayer, so that it be done with understanding, faith, reverence, and other graces necessary to the right performance of the duty of prayer.

At least the Westminster Standards would say that we can use the Lord's Prayer as a prayer itself.

 

[ZackF]

The passage speaks of *vain* repetition and not repetition. That is the rub.

 

[Reformed Catholic]

The passage speaks of *vain* repetition and not repetition. That is the rub.

So, theoretically, there should be nothing wrong with the Eastern Orthodox Prayer Rope, I'm guessing. I strongly reject the Roman Catholic Rosary for its over-exaltation of Mary, but the Eastern Orthodox Prayer Rope simply consists of repeating the Jesus prayer with each knot 100 times or so ("Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner") in order to direct the thoughts constantly towards Christ and repentance.

 

[alexanderjames]

I think the key is -

"they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking”

And we should bear in mind the direction given in Ecclesiastes 5:2, which I think the example of the Eastern Orthodox Rope disregards.

Where from the Scriptures is it deduced that we should grow in godliness by repeating words to God in prayer over and over and over and over again? The Scriptures instead call us to meditate upon the word of God, to hear and apply the word of God preached and taught, and to encourage and exhort one another as brethren in Christ Jesus.

 

[LittleFaith]

So, theoretically, there should be nothing wrong with the Eastern Orthodox Prayer Rope, I'm guessing. I strongly reject the Roman Catholic Rosary for its over-exaltation of Mary, but the Eastern Orthodox Prayer Rope simply consists of repeating the Jesus prayer with each knot 100 times or so ("Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner") in order to direct the thoughts constantly towards Christ and repentance.

Do you see value in the act of repetition itself? That would be a problem in my mind. The RC/EO attitude seems to imply in some way that you get "more bang for your buck" if you just say it more times, though I am sure they would recoil with horror at seeing it worded that way. But however you word it, whether it's about a deepening mystical experience or a measure of penance achieved through sheer repetition, it's wrong.

On the flip side, if you find yourself in the heat of the moment struggling with (as a mere example) a particular sexual temptation and you are praying fervently for help from on high; or if you are in an extended time of prayer contemplating Christ's mercy and your ongoing need for help, pondering God's promises and exhortations to you and the particular acts of mercy he has shown in your life, and the current areas of struggle and need - then in such a case I don't see a problem with turning back to a particular phrase again and again. But that's very different from "empty" or "vain" repetition. In the former case, you're essentially calling for help, and in the latter case you are essentially expositing a certain thought or passage in your conversation with God.

 

[Jack K]

Matthew 6:7 is about an attitude of the heart, not an external rule about whether or not to write out prayers. We should avoid showing off when we pray or trying to finagle something out of God by impressing him with the length of our prayers, whether they are pre-written or extemporaneous.

 

[ZackF]

Repetition can be vain or biblical meditation as I see it.

EO/RC prayer repetition often includes idolatry. If a particular prayer isn’t objectively idolatrous, Jack’s remarks about the disposition of the heart are clear. Christ necessary intercedes to make our prayers worthy in any event.

 

[RamistThomist]

What if you memorize a bible verse, and let's say that bible is a psalm, making it likely a prayer to God. And what if you quote that Bible verse all day, soaking the mind with Scripture, but it's also a prayer.

I think that is more fruitful than repeating Taylor Swift lyrics all day (granted, there are probably other alternatives, too).

 

[ZackF]

What if you memorize a bible verse, and let's say that bible is a psalm, making it likely a prayer to God. And what if you quote that Bible verse all day, soaking the mind with Scripture, but it's also a prayer.

I think that is more fruitful than repeating Taylor Swift lyrics all day (granted, there are probably other alternatives, too).

You brought up Taylor Swift. I thought you were past her.

 

[MyCrows]

What if you memorize a bible verse, and let's say that bible is a psalm, making it likely a prayer to God. And what if you quote that Bible verse all day, soaking the mind with Scripture, but it's also a prayer.

I think that is more fruitful than repeating Taylor Swift lyrics all day (granted, there are probably other alternatives, too).

Sounds like Colossians 3:16, not vain repetition.

 

[RamistThomist]

You brought up Taylor Swift. I thought you were past her.

I teach teenagers. Swift is undergoing a revival. I lost.

 

[ZackF]

I teach teenagers. Swift is undergoing a revival. I lost.

I live in Kansas and well…Kelce.

 

[No Other Name]

I teach teenagers. Swift is undergoing a revival. I lost.

Reminds me of the funniest one-sentence review written by a sharp concert critic ever written up in a newspaper:

"Last night, the Pittsburgh Symphonic Orchestra played Beethoven. Beethoven lost."

 

[MyCrows]

Reminds me of the funniest one-sentence review written by a sharp concert critic ever written up in a newspaper:

"Last night, the Pittsburgh Symphonic Orchestra played Beethoven. Beethoven lost."

How many sentences? Lol

 

[No Other Name]

How many sentences? Lol

And they pay me to teach physics at the high school level hahahahaha

 

[py3ak]

Repetition over time is not vain, because men ought always to pray and not to faint. But repetition that improves our "odds" of being heard is by definition vain. We don't have to inform or persuade God (Matthew 6:8).

Rattling over the same form of words for a set number of times is not the natural repetition that arises from a fullness of heart, and is better avoided.

 

[ReformedChristian]

We we pray we should always keep the following in mind:

1. That the prayer is directed towards God (Colossians 3:1; Ephesians 5:20; Hebrews 13:15).
2. It is in accordance with his will (1st John 5:14)
3. Right motive and intentions (James 4:13;Ecclesiastes 5:2).