Thoughts on John Piper

[Polanus1561]

Broadly speaking, what role does a minister outside your church circle has in binding the conscience? Doesn't every baptist minister bind the conscience of a presbyterian when talking about those issues (and vice versa)?

 

[davejonescue]

Agreed that it doesn't mean "free for all" (something no one here advocated), but it looked like he tried to bind consciences on whether one should defend one's wife and children if an attacker breaks in.

John Piper, Guns, Self-Defense

Is John Piper saying arming oneself is a sin? This paragraph is ambiguous. he issue is not primarily about when and if a Christian may ever use force in self-defense, or the defense of one’s family or friends. There are significant situational ambiguities in the answer to that question...

www.puritanboard.com

But that is kind of my point. He is not out of line with the Puritans or many Pastors who speak on subjects not directly mentioned in the Bible, and come to conclusions they express in their hopes to best lead their flocks. I think many of us are on this board, because we appreciate Puritan theology, hence the name of the board. I was stating that the Puritans, like Piper felt free to give advise according to their reading of scriptures in a whole slew of issues that many may also call "binding."

Also look at Pipers life. He is almost 80 years old, and I have yet to read a story of someone killing his children or raping his wife; or him shooting an intruder or robber. If his dependence is on God being his rock and defense; needless to say God has not been unfaithful to be so.

 

[RamistThomist]

But that is kind of my point. He is not out of line with the Puritans or many Pastors who speak on subjects not directly mentioned in the Bible, and come to conclusions they express in their hopes to best lead their flocks. I think many of us are on this board, because we appreciate Puritan theology, hence the name of the board. I was stating that the Puritans, like Piper felt free to give advise according to their reading of scriptures in a whole slew of issues that many may also call "binding."

Also look at Pipers life. He is almost 80 years old, and I have yet to read a story of someone killing his children or raping his wife. If his dependence is on God being his rock and defense; needless to say God has not been unfaithful to be so.

I know the Puritans did that, and they were wrong on some areas of economics (like clothing, which represented your place in society). They also believed in a "just price," which isn't feasible.

I know Piper is trying to give pastoral guidance. I am saying his pastoral guidance is bad, and as I linked above, it runs counter to the Shorter Catechism's understanding of the sixth commandment.

 

[LittleFaith]

I know the Puritans did that, and they were wrong on some areas of economics (like clothing, which represented your place in society). They also believed in a "just price," which isn't feasible.

I know Piper is trying to give pastoral guidance. I am saying his pastoral guidance is bad, and as I linked above, it runs counter to the Shorter Catechism's understanding of the sixth commandment.

That's not the crux of the problem though. Any pastor who writes as much on as many topics as he does is bound to have a few clunkers from time to time. The crux of the problem is more foundational and stems from flawed theology and method. He is highly intelligent and gifted but kind of a "maverick" who interprets and formulates things in his own way. (Yes, I know he was shaped and influenced by this or that factor but I am speaking from the viewpoint of confessional fidelity.) He's not a basically sound theologian who spouts off the occasional humdinger - his errors have a common source.

For instance, one of his problematic methodologies is to take something that could be (and maybe often is) done as the result of bad motive and then to pronounce the act itself as sinful. This is where things like the proscription on self-defense came from. Aspects of the underlying logic and analysis are not all that bad; but he makes several leaps and ignores several "safety checks" that lead to a really bizarre conclusion.

Then there's his flawed soteriology, and his overwrought emphasis on the emotional experience one should have as a Christian, which is its own insidious form of legalism.

I agree with everything good that's been said about him, but a steady diet of John Piper is likely to cause symptoms of "rabbit poisoning".

 

[ZackF]

… a steady diet of John Piper is likely to cause symptoms of "rabbit poisoning".

Eww

 

[LittleFaith]

Eww

Based on your reaction and your current place of residence, I guess you have some familiarity with what that is. Lol.

 

[ZackF]

Based on your reaction and your current place of residence, I guess you have some familiarity with what that is. Lol.

Had my far share of rabbit but always knew that they needed to be only one course of a meal. Dad once said, “you can’t just eat rabbit.” I later learned about the frontiersmen in school.

 

[dsanch1120]

Gateway to reformed theology for myself and many others I know. Among my favorite non-Covenant theology preachers.
Furthermore, not all those with some liberal views should be avoided, especially Piper’s. Sometimes it’s nice to leave the echo chamber

 

[Herald]

Since the majority of broad evangelicalism is non-confessional, Piper falls into the category of "better than most". That's not a ringing endorsement, but rather an acknowledgment of what others have said in this thread.

 

[Sovereign Grace]

I’m ambivalent towards him.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

He has many good qualities. But if he isn't someone's local shepherd, I would recommend that person to those who were/are more sound. But he is very distinguished in the certain niches he has become popular for. So if you're studying certain topics like suffering or missions, he is a good resource. But to go to him for everything, I would not recommend.

 

[Santos]

Yeah and it’s wrong to own a second house (unless you’re him and it’s a study retreat.)

That's obviously different.

 

[SolaScriptura]

That's obviously different.

Obviously!

 

[Blood-Bought Pilgrim]

Yeah and it’s wrong to own a second house (unless you’re him and it’s a study retreat.)

Is this something that you actually know he has? I have never heard anything about this...

 

[Jonathco]

I think we must be careful, so as to be gracious to a fellow believer, and also, not tread toward violating the 9th commandment or wrongfully slandering a brother in Christ.

I would not consider John Piper reformed, but certainly Calvinistic / doctrines of grace. With that, approach his work cautiously, as many of his views are outside the pale of orthodox reformed theology.

 

[retroGRAD3]

As another mentioned, his view on "final justification" has always troubled me. In practice, it seems very similar to Federal Vision.

 

[Santos]

I have seen many others on this thread saying that John Piper was their introduction to the Doctrines of Grace, the Puritans, Calvinism, etc.
Well, I discovered him very early on in my dive into "reformed" theology, and it was a great hinderance that almost completely repelled me away from the all of the above.

I found reformed theology because I was desperate looking for any vein of Christianity that still practiced church discipline. So, that led me quickly to Reformed Christianity, Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, etc. And while trying to understand the Doctrines of Grace I found John Piper.
Growing up Pentecostal and coming to see that it was a false system of worship, with terrible doctrine, I immediately found John Piper's emotionalism very repulsive. That was even before I learned that he was a continuationist. So, it did not surprise me at all to find out that he promoted men such as Lou Giglio and the likes of him. I am glad that this did not completely deter me, though it almost did.

So, say what you will, but for me, it ain't worth the trouble of the bones.

 

[dsanch1120]

Is this something that you actually know he has? I have never heard anything about this...

I haven’t either. Some other tulip-y Baptist ministers I have heard of having multiple homes. But Piper has frequently spoken of and advocated for living in cheaper, more sketchy neighborhoods, which he himself does.

 

[chuckd]

Was good, and one of the key figures who led to the Reformed resurgence... but as time has gone by he became less and less helpful and more and more harmful. Now I have little to no use for him.

 

[SkylerGerald]

Piper is without a doubt the man who has most influenced me outside of the confessionally reformed world. His preaching is some of the best that I have ever personally encountered, doctrinally rich and doxologically moving. His philosophy of Christian hedonism (however you think of the terminology) has done a lot of good in appreciating the necessity of affections in the Christian life.

I can't speak to his ethics commentary as some have but I do find his final justification doctrine puzzling and out of step with biblical soteriology. Still, I recommend him and his Ask Pastor John podcast to people and use his Don't Waste Your Life in discipling teenagers.

 

[ArminianOnceWas]

I think we must be careful, so as to be gracious to a fellow believer, and also, not tread toward violating the 9th commandment or wrongfully slandering a brother in Christ.

I would not consider John Piper reformed, but certainly Calvinistic / doctrines of grace. With that, approach his work cautiously, as many of his views are outside the pale of orthodox reformed theology.

Is this something that you actually know he has? I have never heard anything about this...

Yes, the question should be asked (BB Pilgrim re the validity of the accusation) and the assertion should be made (Jonathco, being mindful of the 9th commandment). I have never read a book or listened to a sermon by Piper, he's is absolutely off my radar. However, over the years I've observed that this Board will make largely uncontested accusations against those whom they are generally unaligned with while being quick to evoke the 9th commandment as a means to slow down any criticism of those whom are held in high regard. It makes for massive inconsistencies that I have prayerfully grieved over.