Talking with Charismatics

[Shaffer]

Has anyone here ever been in a meeting where people are being "baptized in the Holy Spirit" and it seems as if everyone around you was speaking in tongues and screaming out loud, except you? This happened to me a few months ago and it wasn't the first one of those meetings I've been to.

I guess I was simply wondering how you guys have responded to Charismatic brothers who preach the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" as evidenced by speaking in tongues. Is there a way we can question the Biblical basis for their practice in a way that demonstrates humility, meekness and genuine love for our brothers in Christ? If you have experience in this, please share how you have talked with Charismatics on this issue.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think those kinds of discussions are done better one on one. Honestly, it takes A LOT of basic instruction in God's Word. The problem with charismatics is that they have a very low view of the Word of God. They claim otherwise because they use it as the basis for their distorted views but, when it comes down to brass tacks, they're disinterested in the plain, didactic teaching of the Scriptures.

I've sort of been laboring this issue at the current Church I attend where I teach adult Sunday School. The issue isn't tongues but there is still the charismatic influence of "being in the Spirit" during worship and singing banal choruses over and over. One woman has missed worship a couple of times because she was having a bad week and wanted to spend that time "with the Lord getting reconnected."

I've dealt with it by teaching them the Word of God. I've been doing it for about 6 months now and I'm starting to get to the point where people can appreciate an argument from the Word of God rather than how they "feel" about a particular situation.

Just yesterday, in fact, I was teaching about parables. Not an original thought, but I had been reflecting on why people like parables so much: they can have them mean whatever they like them to mean. "Oh I like Jesus because he tells such good stories that I can appreciate but I don't like Paul because he's mean or he's too complicated...." The "Jesus against Paul" or "Jesus against James" or any other such nonsense is really people saying: "I don't like the real explanation of the parables, I just like stories that I can fill in with my own didactic content straight from my sinful imagination."

Historical narratives or portions from Corinthians talking about the Spiritual Gifts are no different. Charismatics read those passages and then apply whatever surface level understanding they have of the issue. They're not interested in studying the Word, they just want to use it to reinfoce their practice. It really doesn't do much good to show them from the Word that they're wrong (you can certainly do that to call them to repentance) because, until they repent and become real students of the Word, they will just prooftext their own imagination of what the Word should say.

So, For what it's worth, if you have friends that are Charismatic and you really want to get them out of it then deal with the issue obliquely. Don't attack the charismatic gifts head on. Deal with their approach to the Word. Teach them how to study and to love the Word and to love the primary doctrines primarily. When you get around to the gifts then 90% of your work will be complete and that part should fall into place.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

i agree with rich's sentiments. i spent 4 years in a pentecostal church that had no interest in reasoning from scripture other than to fulfill an emotion driven, anti intellectual agenda. alot of emphasis is placed upon experience; those that lack perspective experience, are those that are somehow living in sin, albeit inconspicuously. charismatics are a rigid and obstinate bunch, with an anti intellectual perspective on how the church should mature. erudite christians are castigated by abusive sermons. most cannot not defend or present their position from scripture. dialogue must be done subsequent to prayer and a moving from the HS for charismatics to become receptive to the real truth of the gospel.

 

[CDM]

Originally posted by SemperFideles
I think those kinds of discussions are done better one on one. Honestly, it takes A LOT of basic instruction in God's Word. The problem with charismatics is that they have a very low view of the Word of God. They claim otherwise because they use it as the basis for their distorted views but, when it comes down to brass tacks, they're disinterested in the plain, didactic teaching of the Scriptures.

I've sort of been laboring this issue at the current Church I attend where I teach adult Sunday School. The issue isn't tongues but there is still the charismatic influence of "being in the Spirit" during worship and singing banal choruses over and over. One woman has missed worship a couple of times because she was having a bad week and wanted to spend that time "with the Lord getting reconnected."

I've dealt with it by teaching them the Word of God. I've been doing it for about 6 months now and I'm starting to get to the point where people can appreciate an argument from the Word of God rather than how they "feel" about a particular situation.

Just yesterday, in fact, I was teaching about parables. Not an original thought, but I had been reflecting on why people like parables so much: they can have them mean whatever they like them to mean. "Oh I like Jesus because he tells such good stories that I can appreciate but I don't like Paul because he's mean or he's too complicated...." The "Jesus against Paul" or "Jesus against James" or any other such nonsense is really people saying: "I don't like the real explanation of the parables, I just like stories that I can fill in with my own didactic content straight from my sinful imagination."

Historical narratives or portions from Corinthians talking about the Spiritual Gifts are no different. Charismatics read those passages and then apply whatever surface level understanding they have of the issue. They're not interested in studying the Word, they just want to use it to reinfoce their practice. It really doesn't do much good to show them from the Word that they're wrong (you can certainly do that to call them to repentance) because, until they repent and become real students of the Word, they will just prooftext their own imagination of what the Word should say.

So, For what it's worth, if you have friends that are Charismatic and you really want to get them out of it then deal with the issue obliquely. Don't attack the charismatic gifts head on. Deal with their approach to the Word. Teach them how to study and to love the Word and to love the primary doctrines primarily. When you get around to the gifts then 90% of your work will be complete and that part should fall into place.

Well done, sir.

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
i agree with rich's sentiments. i spent 4 years in a pentecostal church that had no interest in reasoning from scripture other than to fulfill an emotion driven, anti intellectual agenda. alot of emphasis is placed upon experience; those that lack perspective experience, are those that are somehow living in sin, albeit inconspicuously. charismatics are a rigid and obstinate bunch, with an anti intellectual perspective on how the church should mature. erudite christians are castigated by abusive sermons. most cannot not defend or present their position from scripture. dialogue must be done subsequent to prayer and a moving from the HS for charismatics to become receptive to the real truth of the gospel.

Exactly right.