Could Judas do any other than Betray?

[the Internet]

In the fullness of time ... enacted by God ... Christ was betrayed and crucified.

Clearly God does not so impinge on the will of man that any man can say God made me do it; we know this from Scripture and confessions. Thus all are operating by the exercise of their own free will choices.

In the case of Judas the events were predicted by the prophets, and 'compelled' by the times, by the labouring of history itself.

Could Judas have acted in a way contrary to this betraying Jesus?

 

[smhbbag]

Acts 4:

Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people[e] of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen.

Is it possible that what "God decided beforehand should happen" would not actually come to pass? Not at all.

 

[PresbyDane]

NO! easy answer.

 

[Hippo]

What is important is that Judas acted according to his own free will without coercion. He chose what he wanted to.

 

[christiana]

Judas fulfilled his predestined role, as pharaoh did. At the same time he is accountable for his actions just as we are.
John 17:12 says: While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulled.
God is sovereign. We are responsible.
Knowing this only makes our salvation all the sweeter and more humbling!

 

[Scott1]

comment below

In the fullness of time ... enacted by God ... Christ was betrayed and crucified.

Clearly God does not so impinge on the will of man that any man can say God made me do it; we know this from Scripture and confessions. Thus all are operating by the exercise of their own free will choices.

In the case of Judas the events were predicted by the prophets, and 'compelled' by the times, by the labouring of history itself.

Not really 'compelled' by history or anything else other than God's fore-ordained plan to accomplish redemption for His people using the free will actions of man, including the evil actions Judas did with evil intent.

Could Judas have acted in a way contrary to this betraying Jesus?

Matthew 26
[emphasis added]

23Jesus replied, "The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."

25Then Judas, the one who would betray him, said, "Surely not I, Rabbi?"
Jesus answered, "Yes, it is you."


52"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

John 17:12

12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

You might find this helpful (my comment from a current thread on a similar topic):

In the sense that God allows whatever to happen, He ordains whatsoever comes to pass. This includes the actions man does that come from man's evil intentions.

But God uses the secondary causes of man's free will actions to cause His will (God's will) to be done. This is sometimes called the theology of concurrence.

[Remember, man has free will. God has free will. God's will is more free than man's and is in no way limited by man's will.]

Judas Iscariot got what he wanted when he betrayed the Son of Man.

God got what He wanted in that Judas' free will act of betrayal was used to accomplish God's plan for redemption for His people. It led to Christ, having lived a perfect, sinless life, to die as the once-and-forever perfect sacrifice for our sins on the cross.

Judas' evil actions could never have even possibly thwarted God's will or plan. Not even possible. What God wants to happen, will come to pass in His universe.

So, was Judas "glorifying God and enjoy Him forever"? Not at all in terms of his (Judas') intentions.

...

But God still glorified Himself, despite Judas' intentions.

 

[BobVigneault]

We are all born guilty AND sentenced. Unless God interferes then we will and do repeat the betrayal and sin of Judas. I carry within me the sin and certain consequences of our common father Adam and the potential to be Judas.

We can say that God appointed Judas to betray the Lord but we can also say that God simply left Judas in his condition as a betrayer and Judas, consistent with his condition, did what betrayers do. He wasn't sentenced for his betrayal, he was sentenced in Adam for Adam's sin; his betrayal was the expected fruit of his ruined nature.

 

[Kiffin]

I agree with Martin Luther in The Bondage of the will:

...if God foreknew that Judas would be a traitor, Judas became a traitor of necessity; nor was it in the power of Judas nor of any other creature to alter it, or to change that will; though he did what he did willingly, not by compulsion; for that willing of his was his own work; which God, by the motion of His Omnipotence, moved on into action, as He does everything else.—God does not lie, nor is He deceived. This is a truth evident and invincible. There are no obscure or ambiguous words here, even though all the most learned men of all ages should be so blinded as to think and say to the contrary. How much soever, therefore, you may turn your back upon it, yet, the convicted conscience of yourself and all men is compelled to confess, that, IF GOD BE NOT DECEIVED IN THAT WHICH HE FOREKNOWS, THAT WHICH HE FOREKNOWS MUST, OF NECESSITY, TAKE PLACE. If it were not so, who could believe His promises, who would fear His threatenings, if what He promised or threatened did not of necessity take place! Or, how could He promise or threaten, if His prescience could be deceived or hindered by our mutability! This all-clear light of certain truth manifestly stops the mouths of all, puts an end to all questions, and forever settles the victory over all evasive subtleties.

 

[the Internet]

comment below

In the case of Judas the events were predicted by the prophets, and 'compelled' by the times, by the labouring of history itself.

Not really 'compelled' by history or anything else other than God's fore-ordained plan to accomplish redemption for His people using the free will actions of man, including the evil actions Judas did with evil intent.

God fore-ordained the events that constitute history both prospectively and retrospectively. That is all I was pointing to here. If nothing can thwart the will of God, and if God's over-arching decrees is that such events would transpire, then by the historical fore-telling of the prophets, by the social, cultural, and political structures and interactions that prevailed, then all these things lead to this event occurring in history, a history that is creating itself through all these things, at the appointed time, then history itself labours to produce the outcomes that God has decreed. Semantic I guess, but nevertheless history was not the focus of my question

I will ponder what all have written for a few days before coming back to this one ... thanks so far!

 

[Scott1]

the Internet
God fore-ordained the events that constitute history both prospectively and retrospectively. That is all I was pointing to here. If nothing can thwart the will of God, and if God's over-arching decrees is that such events would transpire, then by the historical fore-telling of the prophets, by the social, cultural, and political structures and interactions that prevailed, then all these things lead to this event occurring in history, a history that is creating itself through

In trying to untangling this, it might be helpful to think of "ordaining" as permitting to happen, in the sense of not preventing them from happening, which God, of course could do.

The "free will" actions of man, being secondary causes of what happens, are not violated. Man still does what he wants, with the intentions he wants, even the evil ones.

But that does not in any way limit God, including His ability to foresee everything that has, is or will happen, forever.

 

[OPC'n]

He had no other path on which to walk down. He was a vessel made for destruction.

 

[Skyler]

In the fullness of time ... enacted by God ... Christ was betrayed and crucified.

Clearly God does not so impinge on the will of man that any man can say God made me do it; we know this from Scripture and confessions. Thus all are operating by the exercise of their own free will choices.

In the case of Judas the events were predicted by the prophets, and 'compelled' by the times, by the labouring of history itself.

Could Judas have acted in a way contrary to this betraying Jesus?

Yes--but only if his nature were changed. Given the same nature and the same set of circumstances, Judas would have repeated the same action, no matter how many times you "re-play" the scenario. Unlike "free will" advocates suggest, our decisions are affected by our nature and the circumstances--we don't mentally "flip a coin" and make an unprejudiced decision that could be different if the scenario were to be replayed without changing anything.

 

[CDM]

no.

 

[ewenlin]

no.

like your answer.. straight as can be

=p

 

[Skyler]

no.

That's Sarah's line.