Confronting the elephant in our midst: Growing anti-semitism among Christians in the 21st century

[MarrowMan]

What definition of antisemitism are we working with here? Forgive me if I’ve missed it.

Hatred of Jews because they’re Jews.

 

[riverman]

Hatred of Jews because they’re Jews.

I just deleted this question because I posted twice in a row.

Thank you for the response.

I think the trouble people have with this definition is it’s often not actually applied that way at all. The same as racism.

People consider something as benign as noticing crime statistics as “hate,” and therefore you are a racist if you do so.

The same has been done with antisemitism.

I throw them both in the same bag. Too often are they used to shut down discourse or smear an opponent; they have become meaningless words—at least the way they are being used.

I don’t deny people hate Jews for being Jews; but again, you’ll be called an antisemite by some for not stealing from your children’s future to send money to Israel.

 

[MarrowMan]

What I want to know is why were they kicked out of so many countries in the past?

Also, is there anything to the idea that part of the punishment for their rejection of Christ is that they would be cursed upon the earth?

Honest questions.

Depends on the country you are speaking about. Take Spain, for instance. They were kicked out of Spain because a.) their outsized economic influence (decidedly the Christians fault since they allowed usury by the Jews to keep their hands clean while using Jews as a significant source of tax revenue) and b.) worry over converted Jews reverting back to Judaism from Catholicism.

 

[MarrowMan]

I just deleted this question because I posted twice in a row.

Thank you for the response.

I think the trouble people have with this definition is it’s often not actually applied that way at all. The same as racism.

People consider something as benign as noticing crime statistics as “hate,” and therefore you are a racist if you do so.

The same has been done with antisemitism.

I throw them both in the same bag. Too often are they used to shut down discourse or smear an opponent; they have become meaningless words—at least the way they are being used.

I don’t deny people hate Jews for being Jews; but again, you’ll be called an antisemite by some for not stealing from your children’s future to send money to Israel.

Yes, the privileging of words so that they might be used to stifle discourse is not a new or rare phenomenon. Neither is oversimplification in order to paint one’s cause in the best light and the other’s in the worst.

As I said in my first post, the situation that exists now is far different than the one that existed during the diaspora. The conflict that exists now has not been nearly one-sided. There are no clean hands. But we also must be careful not to overreact to the pro-Zionist mindset that dispensational theology has ensconced in the broader evangelical church culture.

 

[Sam Jer]

How are we defining "Zionism" after 48? Being in favour of the continuing existance of Israel? Israeli Nationalism? There is a huge diffrence between those two defenitions.

 

[MarrowMan]

How are we defining "Zionism" after 48? Being in favour of the continuing existance of Israel? Israeli Nationalism? There is a huge diffrence between those two defenitions.

An Israeli nationalism still in line with the Zionist movement of the late 1800s to 1940s that desires not just the existence of a national state, but it's expansion.

 

[Sam Jer]

An Israeli nationalism still in line with the Zionist movement of the late 1800s to 1940s that desires not just the existence of a national state, but it's expansion.

Those who want expansion are the extreme far right. The left wants the opposite - tearing down West Bank settlements as part of a peace proccess - and the center and some moderate parts of the right are open to the idea. The far right are generally religious, which the old Zionists were not.

 

[riverman]

Those of you who agree with the spirit of the OP of this thread, would you say antisemitism or anti-whiteness is more prevalent within the ranks of the visible church today?

I don’t know if it depends on geography, or conflating internet discourse with reality, or what, but I’ve only actually seen the latter with my own eyes. Therefore the zeal against the one and not the other is quite confusing.

Back to the OP, what apparent antisemitism are people actually seeing in their own churches here?

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Back to the OP, what apparent antisemitism are people actually seeing in their own churches here?

Thankfully I don't see any at all, nor do I see racism of any sort, for that matter. I would expect leadership to not tolerate any of that junk in the least. I'd be interested as well to know if that's really happening in churches.

 

[Ulster Fry]

Therefore the zeal against the one and not the other is quite confusing.

You're literally engaged in a thread where we can't get basic answers about whether there was a holocaust or whether we think the Jews are behind every evil in the world, and you come off with this? Who on the board has even hinted that anti-white racism is okay?

This kind of whataboutery comes across as unbalanced and unhinged. I wonder why?

 

[riverman]

You're literally engaged in a thread where we can't get basic answers about whether there was a holocaust or whether we think the Jews are behind every evil in the world, and you come off with this? Who on the board has even hinted that anti-white racism is okay?

This kind of whataboutery comes across as unbalanced and unhinged. I wonder why?

One fellow on the internet who doesn’t even live on the same continent as I do?

You’re telling me the house is on fire and that I’m unhinged for not believing it. I’m telling you I’ve seen no fire and smell no smoke.

I’ve still never seen antisemitism in person with my own eyes—yet I’m told it’s an “elephant in our midst.”

Let’s calm down here, brother.

 

[Ulster Fry]

One fellow on the internet who doesn’t even live on the same continent as I do?

You’re telling me the house is on fire and that I’m unhinged for not believing it. I’m telling you I’ve seen no fire and smell no smoke.

I’ve still never seen antisemitism in person with my own eyes—yet I’m told it’s an “elephant in our midst.”

Let’s calm down here, brother.

I'm fairly sure the OP is referring to the fact that already a bunch of people have been banned for what they've said about Jews on this board in the last few days, hence 'elephant in our midst'.

So far, you've asked why people get rid of the Jews everywhere they live, whether there is some biblical basis for the Jews being cursed upon the earth for what they did to Christ, and now something about anti-white racism which has nothing to do with anything. Why?

 

[riverman]

I'm fairly sure the OP is referring to the fact that already a bunch of people have been banned for what they've said about Jews on this board in the last few days, hence 'elephant in our midst'.

So far, you've asked why people get rid of the Jews everywhere they live, whether there is some biblical basis for the Jews being cursed upon the earth for what they did to Christ, and now something about anti-white racism which has nothing to do with anything. Why?

Because, again, as someone with no experience with this stuff—I’ve never even heard of it other than on the internet—it is all foreign to me.

I’m trying to understand where the “antisemites within our ranks” are coming from. What are they arguing? What’s their basis? If they are Christians, then presumably their arguments might have a biblical flavour (the curse question).

And the anti-white racism was merely an example of something I have actually seen within the visible church.

And @RamistThomist, I hope you’re not throwing out “likes” because you think I’m an internet anon, CREC disciple, etc. etc. that you like to rail against on X.

 

[MarrowMan]

I don't think antisemitism is somehow running rampant in the American church. Far right and far left may have some issues, but that's far from mainstream.

It's important both to get over the hagiographizing of Israel and recognize that acknowledging Israel's own contributions to the problem isn't antisemitism, as well as to acknowledge that Hamas and Hezbollah are wicked.

My question is, to what extent are members on this board actually affected to any substantial degree either by the historical circumstances of the Jews, or the current Palestinian/Israeli conflict. Why is this such a raw topic for so many?

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Moderating. Moderating is not a topic for discussion. If anyone has an issue with any moderating, contact an admin. Also, do not bring grudges from offboard onto this board. We're giving this thread a rest. Clear our heads for the Lord's Day.