CalvinandHodges
Puritan Board Junior
Hey:
Does Baptism signify membership in the Church?
Thanks,
-CH
Does Baptism signify membership in the Church?
Thanks,
-CH
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
1. Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be unto the party baptized, a sign of his fellowship with him, in his death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into him; of remission of sins; and of giving up into God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life.
1. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church, but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace, of his ingrafting into Christ, of regeneration, of remission of sins, and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in newness of life: which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in his Church until the end of the world.
*sigh* I'm only dipping one foot in here. I just want to clear up the confusion on the Baptist view of baptism and church membership.
Entrance into the invisible church is through regeneration.
Entrance into the visible church is through baptism. While the WCF specifically mentions entrance into the visible church via baptism, Baptists have historically regarded baptism as the method by which an individual is granted membership.
I will now retreat back to my hole.
And entrance into the local body is conditional upon, and separate from, the entrance into the visible and invisible.
You can be regenerated, then baptised by a particular local body, but not gain membership there.
Be careful with this topic. Terms need to be accurately defined as the discussion grows, or confusion will result.
<---also retreating back into his hole.
Greetings:
So, if I understand it correctly, the credo-baptist does not believe that Baptism is a sign of one being a part of the Universal Church?
Chris - let me drill down a bit. If an individual applies for membership in a Baptist church, they must be baptized. No baptism, no membership. Yes, being baptized does not make them a member unless they apply for membership. I can see how my earlier post may have been confusing.
Ok, Apparently I am dissenting more and more with my baptist confession and agreeing more and more with the Westminister in a number of things, including some issues with baptism... I hope that does not mean I am about to become a paedo..
Michael - this was my whole point to you in the previous baptism thread we participated in. I wasn't trying to insult you when I said you were not a Baptist. I was just stating the obvious. You really aren't a Baptist, or at least not for long. Your baptismal and church polity leanings are moving you more towards the Presbyterian camp. That is not an insult, just an observation. If you find your heart moving to the Presbyterian viewpoint, God bless you.
I still like what my wife called us.. A Reformed Pres-Bap-Piscopal
Michael
You can be regenerated, then baptised by a particular local body, but not gain membership there.
Well most of my views on Baptism aleast are held by Sam Waldron (Pretty famous Reformed Baptist) and I would not say that he is leaning Paedobaptism.
A Reformed Pres-Bap-Piscopal
Mine, too, and I've been told that I'm a baptist in name only, and that if only I'd "apply the sign" properly, then I could just be a happy presbyterian!
But I can't buy into the paedo interpretation of Jer. 31 and Heb 8, which is a HUGE DEAL, so I still call myself a reformed baptist.
haha. To my eyes it looks too much like pepto bismol, however.
Ok, Apparently I am dissenting more and more with my baptist confession and agreeing more and more with the Westminister in a number of things, including some issues with baptism... I hope that does not mean I am about to become a paedo..
I agree more with our 1693 Catechism that Baptism is a Sacrament... More then an ordinance like the 1689 confession speaks of... I have no trouble with Sacrament.
I also agree that while Baptism is an entrance sign into the visible church I also believe it to be entrance into the invisible church as a Sign of the New Covenant, similiar to how circumcision was applied in the Old Covenant except now is not given to our children. But Sealed by the Regeneration of the Holy Spirit.
Both Paedo's and Credo's agree that baptism unites one to Christ.
http://www.christian-truth.org/church/paedobaptism1.html
The Apology of Aristides was an apologetic argument delivered to the emperor Hadrian around 125 CE. It says: “Further, if one or other of them have bondmen and bondwomen or children, through love towards them they persuade them to become Christians, and when they have done so, they call them brethren without distinction” (15:6). The debate over the passage has been focused on the children-whether or not they are children of slaves or the Christian parents. But it is also important to note that Christian masters would try to “persuade” their slaves and only when they have persudade them would they “call them brethren without distinction.” This strongly implies that Christian masters did not baptize slaves until they professed faith in Christ. There is additional evidence from the Bible showing that sometimes houses did not convert together. Paul was well acquainted with the difficulties that arose in his church when only one parent converted, and gave instruction on the topic (1 Corinthians 7:14). His own apprentice, Timothy, was a prominent disciple whose mother was faithful, though his father was a Greek (Acts 16:1). Peter instructed women with unbelieving husbands to win them through their conduct (1 Peter 3:1-5). Given this data, it seems hasty to conclude that infants were definitely baptized because the Bible says that “whole households” were baptized.
Greetings:
Thanks for all of your responses. I think when Semper Fidelis, in one of the earlier posts, quotes both the 1689 and Westminster Confessions he aptly points out that Baptists traditionally do not consider Baptism as a sign of entrance into the Universal Church.
Take, for example, the man from Jerusalem. If he was baptized in Jerusalem, then when he moves to Antioch would he need to be re-baptized? I believe we would all answer "no way, Jose." If he was simply baptized into the local body (Jerusalem), then one could argue that he would need to be baptized again when he moved to Antioch. Again, I believe that we would all answer with a resounding, "no."
Both Paedo's and Credo's agree that baptism unites one to Christ. I would suggest that this argues for universal church membership. Can one be united to Christ and not be united to the universal church?
I, for one, would say "no," but it seems the Credo-Baptist would answer "yes" to this?
Am I mistaken?
Blessings,
-CH
My elders wouldn't baptise someone who wasn't joining our church! Why would they baptise someone who isn't going to be under their authority? That seems odd and I can't imagine a circumstance that would make it not so.