Carl Copsey
Puritan Board Freshman
Hi. I was wondering what anyone thought about the Cowboy Church Movement. Any comments? Thanks.
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I am against any kind of "Church Movement" that doesn't consider all believers to be the same regardless of social status, color, or national origin, etc.
I am also against any "Church Movement" that caters to just one element of the social stratum. I don't mind "outreach organizations" that do that, but "Churches" should never.
In my humble opinion.
In Texas, the Cowboy churches are very popular. My experience has found them quite weak on theology. There are obviously always exceptions to this, but even if a Cowboy Church had a more sound theology, these types of churches are antithetical to the true gospel, which calls "all men" to repentance, not just cowboys. Imagine a "Doctor's Church" or a "Teacher's Church".I am against any kind of "Church Movement" that doesn't consider all believers to be the same regardless of social status, color, or national origin, etc.
I am also against any "Church Movement" that caters to just one element of the social stratum. I don't mind "outreach organizations" that do that, but "Churches" should never.
In my humble opinion.
I have preached there a couple times (at the Pastors request and its members) and they have asked my wife and I to hold a purity conference with the teenagers.
You evidently have no experience with cowboy culture. Definitely a distinct culture, although I'm not keen on the concept.A cowboy church though seems like reaching out to appeal to a style preference than a true distinct group of people.
Well... it's Texas. But you have to concede, Andrew, that there is a distinct goat-roper culture throughout Texas, right? My cousins fit that bill, and attend cowboy churches. Over the years they seem to have grown in grace to an extent that I would consider them sincere believers.In Texas, the Cowboy churches are very popular.
I don't and I was not trying to minimize the differences in regional culture. I was only trying to highlight that there is a significant difference between two English speaking Americans in different parts of the country and two people who speak totally distinct languages. As someone who grew up in the inner city now attending a rural church, I get there are differences in regions and subcultures, but I do not think the answer is to make churches that specifically cater to subcultures by creating a christian version of that subculture.You evidently have no experience with cowboy culture. Definitely a distinct culture, although I'm not keen on the concept.
Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
Problem is, these people groups are resistant to assimilation, preferring to remain in separatist enclaves. They share this proclivity with the various nerd tribes we see dispersed around the North American continent. Whether festooned in bolos or bowties, these poor folks need to be reached!Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
Problem is, these people groups are resistant to assimilation, preferring to remain in separatist enclaves. They share this proclivity with the various nerd tribes we see dispersed around the North American continent. Whether festooned in bolos or bowties, these poor folks need to be reached!Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
Carl Copsey
Youth Minister
Student of Theology
JC3 Church
Jasper, TX
Carl Copsey
Youth Minister
Student of Theology
JC3 Church
Jasper, TX
Carl,
Your signature seems to indicate that you're the Youth Minister of JC3 Church which stands for "Jasper County Cowboy Church." So I'm confused. Is this a movement you've had some dealings with (like your post suggests) or that your actually within (as your signature indicates)?
Umm, yes... yes it was, Ben.Problem is, these people groups are resistant to assimilation, preferring to remain in separatist enclaves. They share this proclivity with the various nerd tribes we see dispersed around the North American continent. Whether festooned in bolos or bowties, these poor folks need to be reached!Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
I'm pretty sure this was supposed to be a joke...
Umm, yes... yes it was, Ben.Problem is, these people groups are resistant to assimilation, preferring to remain in separatist enclaves. They share this proclivity with the various nerd tribes we see dispersed around the North American continent. Whether festooned in bolos or bowties, these poor folks need to be reached!Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
I'm pretty sure this was supposed to be a joke...
Carl, I'm curious to know, does this church line up with your confessional statement (which I'm assuming is the LBCF)? I am not trying to be rude, but you've already mentioned that the teaching has been milky and there are no discipleship programs, what exactly convinces you that "God led you here"?
Carl, I'm curious to know, does this church line up with your confessional statement (which I'm assuming is the LBCF)? I am not trying to be rude, but you've already mentioned that the teaching has been milky and there are no discipleship programs, what exactly convinces you that "God led you here"?
Actually, yes it does, simply because it is "open" in a sense for the reformed view. We are in a unique position here. This is a heavily arminian area. There is no church, at least that I am aware of, that holds to that confession. This includes the First Baptist churches around here. However, the sovereign hand of God is very evident and we are amazed to see first hand at what God is doing. I assure you, my doctrinal standards and thinking line up with my heroes: B.B. Warfield and R.C. Sproul and I get skeptical on many grounds. This area needs the reformed faith.
There were no discipleship programs when I started. However, before I made any commitment we discussed a goal in mind and what that would look like and discipleship programs are coming into fruition. It's like building a church from the ground up. Those programs begin on the 6th. People are excited to see these changes. There is a "history" here, but it seems God is shaping this church with reformed thinking and solid biblical expository teaching and preaching. The changes are slow....which is expected...but they are happening. Faster now than before. What we need is your prayer and we would certainly appreciate it. We are dedicated to God's sovereignty, the doctrines of grace and the biblical teaching the reformers and puritans bring. We lay at the feet of Jesus.
I think, in general, cowboy churches are seeker-sensitive, a movement I strongly oppose, but this church is shifting. It wasn't originally a cowboy church, there is room for change.
Hi Carl. Just curious, do non cowboy believers go to the cowboy church as well? Is it just cowboys in one and non cowboys in another? I suppose what really makes me wonder is, is there a plan, sort of, to teach them that the church is for all and to bring them all together eventually? To break down the barriers between the two and have all united under the one roof in Christ as it should be? I get that with some things steps need to be taken but I could see if none were that there would end up being another fragment in the church overall. Galatians 3 v 28 Colossians 3 v 11
Just my thoughts.
Carl, I'm curious to know, does this church line up with your confessional statement (which I'm assuming is the LBCF)? I am not trying to be rude, but you've already mentioned that the teaching has been milky and there are no discipleship programs, what exactly convinces you that "God led you here"?
Actually, yes it does, simply because it is "open" in a sense for the reformed view. We are in a unique position here. This is a heavily arminian area. There is no church, at least that I am aware of, that holds to that confession. This includes the First Baptist churches around here. However, the sovereign hand of God is very evident and we are amazed to see first hand at what God is doing. I assure you, my doctrinal standards and thinking line up with my heroes: B.B. Warfield and R.C. Sproul and I get skeptical on many grounds. This area needs the reformed faith.
There were no discipleship programs when I started. However, before I made any commitment we discussed a goal in mind and what that would look like and discipleship programs are coming into fruition. It's like building a church from the ground up. Those programs begin on the 6th. People are excited to see these changes. There is a "history" here, but it seems God is shaping this church with reformed thinking and solid biblical expository teaching and preaching. The changes are slow....which is expected...but they are happening. Faster now than before. What we need is your prayer and we would certainly appreciate it. We are dedicated to God's sovereignty, the doctrines of grace and the biblical teaching the reformers and puritans bring. We lay at the feet of Jesus.
I think, in general, cowboy churches are seeker-sensitive, a movement I strongly oppose, but this church is shifting. It wasn't originally a cowboy church, there is room for change.
I understand your predicament. You just weren't clear that they lined up at all with your doctrinal position. I didn't mean to come off intrusive.
Well, I'm not a Cowboy. All is welcome.
Well, I'm not a Cowboy. All is welcome.
So if everyone is welcome there, then why is the church named "Cowboy Church"? This name actually says the opposite - this church is for cowboys. If you show up in a suit and tie, you'll be out of place. By name alone, your group is alienating a large segment of the community.
Problem is, these people groups are resistant to assimilation, preferring to remain in separatist enclaves. They share this proclivity with the various nerd tribes we see dispersed around the North American continent. Whether festooned in bolos or bowties, these poor folks need to be reached!Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
Well, I'm not a Cowboy. All is welcome.
So if everyone is welcome there, then why is the church named "Cowboy Church"? This name actually says the opposite - this church is for cowboys. If you show up in a suit and tie, you'll be out of place. By name alone, your group is alienating a large segment of the community.
Actually, we do have those in suits and ties. And there is a big sign out front that says: "Come As You are." Sometimes I wear a t-shirt. I do agree with what you say about the name. But isn't, for example, "First Presbyterian Church" or "First Baptist Church," in essence, doing the same thing in alienation? What we can do, in some cases, work from the inside out as the Lord sovereignly and strategically places his people where he wants them. We do his bidding, He will work it out.
Well, I'm not a Cowboy. All is welcome.
So if everyone is welcome there, then why is the church named "Cowboy Church"? This name actually says the opposite - this church is for cowboys. If you show up in a suit and tie, you'll be out of place. By name alone, your group is alienating a large segment of the community.
Actually, we do have those in suits and ties. And there is a big sign out front that says: "Come As You are." Sometimes I wear a t-shirt. I do agree with what you say about the name. But isn't, for example, "First Presbyterian Church" or "First Baptist Church," in essence, doing the same thing in alienation? What we can do, in some cases, work from the inside out as the Lord sovereignly and strategically places his people where he wants them. We do his bidding, He will work it out.
I would say identifying as Baptist or Presbyterian is much different than identifying as "cowboy". Identifying our denomination gives a clear declaration of who we are, and exactly what we believe. Identifying as a cowboy church says nothing about beliefs, it only describes style.