Christians in sales

[Ploutos]

I've never been in sales, nor in my various fields of employment have I come into much contact with those who are. It's not traditionally been a field I could see myself in. As my wife frequently says, "You can't even convince me most of the time."

In my current job, working in a tech support capacity, I find that the atmosphere in my department involves a generally negative view of our sales department. The prevailing implicit view is that they are just there to sweet-talk people into shelling out more money on our products, while the sales people themselves know next to nothing about the actual products they are selling. This has caused me to realize that my subconscious opinion of the sales field is somewhat akin to the negative stereotypes of the legal field - a generally "tainted," unethical, and dishonest field that encourages the practice of "changing weights and measures".

I honestly don't have any good friends in sales that I can really ask about this, so here's an honest inquiry. Those of you who are in sales, or who have some familiarity with the field - what is it like being a Christian in that field? What are the ethical/moral challenges inherent to that line of work and how do you grapple with them? Alternatively, are there some people who hold to a view that Christians should avoid work in the sales field?

This is an honest and somewhat light-hearted inquiry. I have no intention of casting judgment on the field or on people in it. I am just processing a mixture of conscious and unconscious thoughts that have come into the light of day in my little brain of late, and I'm curious to hear what others think.

 

[Phil D.]

I've had several jobs that indirectly involved "selling" things to proprietary customers (as opposed to retail or cold sales). It can be difficult at times finding the proper line between "putting your best foot forward" and presenting only partial information to achieve a sale. I have had instances were considerable tension was created with my employer when I went with my conscience in trying to give a holistic picture to a customer, once to the point where it led to my leaving the job. I have also had disagreements with two Christian bosses over what extent Matt. 7:12 applies to commerce. So, anecdotally, I think it can be relatively and perhaps uniquely difficult for Christians to be in "sales."

 

[ZackF]

I’d tell your tech buddies you need sales and sales needs you. You support the product with customers and they get the customers that pay your wages.

 

[Regi Addictissimus]

Sales people help keep the lights on. Without sales, no tech department. It is simple.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

I've never been in sales, nor in my various fields of employment have I come into much contact with those who are. It's not traditionally been a field I could see myself in. As my wife frequently says, "You can't even convince me most of the time."

In my current job, working in a tech support capacity, I find that the atmosphere in my department involves a generally negative view of our sales department. The prevailing implicit view is that they are just there to sweet-talk people into shelling out more money on our products, while the sales people themselves know next to nothing about the actual products they are selling. This has caused me to realize that my subconscious opinion of the sales field is somewhat akin to the negative stereotypes of the legal field - a generally "tainted," unethical, and dishonest field that encourages the practice of "changing weights and measures".

I honestly don't have any good friends in sales that I can really ask about this, so here's an honest inquiry. Those of you who are in sales, or who have some familiarity with the field - what is it like being a Christian in that field? What are the ethical/moral challenges inherent to that line of work and how do you grapple with them? Alternatively, are there some people who hold to a view that Christians should avoid work in the sales field?

This is an honest and somewhat light-hearted inquiry. I have no intention of casting judgment on the field or on people in it. I am just processing a mixture of conscious and unconscious thoughts that have come into the light of day in my little brain of late, and I'm curious to hear what others think.

My Dad, who died in his unbelief in 2020, spent his life in sales. So I got to be a fly on the wall for ~30 years or so, and occasionally a participant. I briefly helped him run an Art Gallery in Miami for a few years in the early 2000's. Knowing what I know about the industry, I simply couldn't work in sales as a Christian. Even working in IT, there are occasionally ethical concerns which need to be navigated very judiciously, such as when it comes time to 'sell' something via PowerPoint slide deck. Salesmen in particular are known for their forked tongues, but it's not a problem inherently unique to that line of work.

My wife and I within the past two weeks were having a conversation about salesmen. We were choosing a pest control service and one man claimed to be a man of faith. We would prefer to do business with believers, so we went with this gentleman's company. Long story short, we failed to read some of the fine print and so when someone came to our door offering pest control service with a more competitive offering (better service which would cover the whole property instead of just indoors and outdoors within 10 feet of the foundation), we switched. That same man of faith called my wife and I back, lied to my wife about the details of a conversation in the morning I had with one of his co-workers, and then lied about the second company's offering. Both salesmen from both companies at one point even used the same line on my wife. It was disheartening.

Anyway, we're not to be like them. The whole world is drunk on duplicity and doublespeak. So whatever line of work you find yourself called to, tread carefully and work prayerfully, doing all things to the glory of God.

 

[toledomudhen]

I've never been in sales, nor in my various fields of employment have I come into much contact with those who are. It's not traditionally been a field I could see myself in. As my wife frequently says, "You can't even convince me most of the time."

In my current job, working in a tech support capacity, I find that the atmosphere in my department involves a generally negative view of our sales department. The prevailing implicit view is that they are just there to sweet-talk people into shelling out more money on our products, while the sales people themselves know next to nothing about the actual products they are selling. This has caused me to realize that my subconscious opinion of the sales field is somewhat akin to the negative stereotypes of the legal field - a generally "tainted," unethical, and dishonest field that encourages the practice of "changing weights and measures".

I honestly don't have any good friends in sales that I can really ask about this, so here's an honest inquiry. Those of you who are in sales, or who have some familiarity with the field - what is it like being a Christian in that field? What are the ethical/moral challenges inherent to that line of work and how do you grapple with them? Alternatively, are there some people who hold to a view that Christians should avoid work in the sales field?

This is an honest and somewhat light-hearted inquiry. I have no intention of casting judgment on the field or on people in it. I am just processing a mixture of conscious and unconscious thoughts that have come into the light of day in my little brain of late, and I'm curious to hear what others think.

I work in sales (but in all honesty, I'm only average at the job). All that to say, I have no moral qualms with it because I believe in what we sell and what we have to offer. Under those circumstances, I see no issue with the position.

 

[py3ak]

I've never been in sales, nor in my various fields of employment have I come into much contact with those who are. It's not traditionally been a field I could see myself in. As my wife frequently says, "You can't even convince me most of the time."

In my current job, working in a tech support capacity, I find that the atmosphere in my department involves a generally negative view of our sales department. The prevailing implicit view is that they are just there to sweet-talk people into shelling out more money on our products, while the sales people themselves know next to nothing about the actual products they are selling. This has caused me to realize that my subconscious opinion of the sales field is somewhat akin to the negative stereotypes of the legal field - a generally "tainted," unethical, and dishonest field that encourages the practice of "changing weights and measures".

I honestly don't have any good friends in sales that I can really ask about this, so here's an honest inquiry. Those of you who are in sales, or who have some familiarity with the field - what is it like being a Christian in that field? What are the ethical/moral challenges inherent to that line of work and how do you grapple with them? Alternatively, are there some people who hold to a view that Christians should avoid work in the sales field?

This is an honest and somewhat light-hearted inquiry. I have no intention of casting judgment on the field or on people in it. I am just processing a mixture of conscious and unconscious thoughts that have come into the light of day in my little brain of late, and I'm curious to hear what others think.

It's possible the sales department has a generally negative view of tech support, of course.

There are unethical practices in every line of work. When salespeople are able to evaluate a customer's needs and possibilities, help them evaluate tradeoffs honestly, and guide them to the best attainable solution, that is a valuable service that deserves recognition.

I say this as someone who understands that everyone is selling something; but who is also very bad at all selling.

 

[Ploutos]

I’d tell your tech buddies you need sales and sales needs you. You support the product with customers and they get the customers that pay your wages.

Sales people help keep the lights on. Without sales, no tech department. It is simple.

Absolutely agree here. I know well that people with technical expertise very often don't know how to run a business or get customers.

Note that I'm not questioning the intrinsic validity of this type of field. I don't know anybody that denies that we need lawyers, as another example of a necessary field that nonetheless poses challenges for Christians, at least in this day and age.

 

[Ploutos]

I work in sales (but in all honesty, I'm only average at the job). All that to say, I have no moral qualms with it because I believe in what we sell and what we have to offer. Under those circumstances, I see no issue with the position.

In your particular job, do you feel pressure to paint your product in a positive light at the expense of an honest portrayal? One could believe in a product but still be honest or dishonest in describing it.

I really appreciate everyone's responses - edifying and helpful to me.

 

[Deleted member 13126]

In your particular job, do you feel pressure to paint your product in a positive light at the expense of an honest portrayal? One could believe in a product but still be honest or dishonest in describing it.

I really appreciate everyone's responses - edifying and helpful to me.

It’s not just a positive or negative light we should be concerned with. There are presuppositions that are promoted with high performers of some professions as well. Take our topic at hand, sales. Here’s a few that come to mind from being a fly on the wall for 30 years.

1. Alternatives of choice: This is where you might ask a person whether they are buying something for their home (personal use) or office (business use). They assume and even begin to prime the mind to buy, even if someone is just looking. The customer may have no business buying something given their budgetary constraints.

2. Limited opportunity close: Pressure is created to act now because time is running out. This sort of emotional pressure is misleading, particularly when it is cultivated with a profit motive in mind.

3. Emotional decision making: Very much of what I observed in sales leans into this. It’s most clearly seen when you’re selling art, since art is so abstract, but it’s also evidenced when you’re selling cars (take it home for the night and fall in love) or even software (the customer has a frightful problem only your solution can solve). This is highly encouraged in many sales positions.

4. Usury: Many sales positions are commission based. Very often a company can afford to pay commissions because it exacts usury (historically understood as any interest, even 1%).

5. Neuro-linguistic Programming (‘NLP’): This was really big in my Dad’s day and has to do with changing someone’s thoughts or behaviors through the use of words in order to exact a desired outcome. It’s pseudoscientific manipulation.

6. Scripts: Many entry-level sales positions and job training seminars leverage a one-size fits all script that should be used. You see this perhaps most often with folks who sell things over the phone and then cold call folks. At 19 I had done this for a few weeks selling FOREX Options in South Florida. We weren’t interested in what was good for these people, really, or we had to lean in to our training to “believe in the product” and suppose we really were helping people.

7. 2 No’s and a Yes: Innocent enough on the surface, this tactic is very common in sales and its directed at the salesmen themselves. It’s a method for staying encouraged even when no one is buying what you’re selling. So it’s one part self-help and one part manifest destiny, really. The idea is to continue to stay highly motivated to make the sale even when multiple people are telling you no. It also presupposes customers should be buying what you’re selling.

8. Sell Me This Pen: A common exercise, often as part of an interview, where you’re asked to roleplay a scenario and sell the customer something common that everyone understands they don’t actually need - in this case, a pen. So you try to demonstrate your ability to overcome any resistance to buying this thing that really isn’t needed, often by manufacturing the need itself. Make the customer feel like they need it and like it’s their decision to buy it by subtly influencing them. You often will hear of good salesmen being able to “sell ice to Eskimos” or something along those lines for this very reason.

There are countless YouTube shorts, books, etc., aiming to equip would-be salesmen with various novel “don’t take no for an answer” methods for increasing their sales, with total disregard for whether or not the customer should be spending their money at all, let alone spending their money on what you’re selling. Yet by virtue of the position, it is simply presupposed that the best choice for the customer is to buy, buy, buy.

If I recall correctly, in the days of the early church there were many roles which were discouraged or prohibited among professing believers, such as actors and gladiators. Nowadays the only thing that is forbidden is forbidding anything. Some positions really ought not be pursued by professing Christians.

To be clear, sales isn’t something I simply have a chip on my shoulder about. I think many of the same moral and ethical dilemmas would present themselves in other lines of work, such as in marketing. But if you’re going to be successful in sales, barring some altruistic niche, I think it’s very often going to promote compromise.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Here are my two concerns for sales people.

1. Always be honest. I don't want to hear just what's good about what you're selling. I want to hear the bad and weaknesses as well. Also, any hidden costs, cost increases in the future, anything like that should be made clear right from the beginning. Don't be fearful to be truthful.

2. Respect the customer and don't annoy them. If they say no, respect the no, and don't keep pushing. If I'm not interested, any further pestering will just become irritating.

If a salesperson is a Christian, their goal should still be to love their neighbor.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

It’s not just a positive or negative light we should be concerned with. There are presuppositions that are promoted with high performers of some professions as well. Take our topic at hand, sales. Here’s a few that come to mind from being a fly on the wall for 30 years.

1. Alternatives of choice: This is where you might ask a person whether they are buying something for their home (personal use) or office (business use). They assume and even begin to prime the mind to buy, even if someone is just looking. The customer may have no business buying something given their budgetary constraints.

2. Limited opportunity close: Pressure is created to act now because time is running out. This sort of emotional pressure is misleading, particularly when it is cultivated with a profit motive in mind.

3. Emotional decision making: Very much of what I observed in sales leans into this. It’s most clearly seen when you’re selling art, since art is so abstract, but it’s also evidenced when you’re selling cars (take it home for the night and fall in love) or even software (the customer has a frightful problem only your solution can solve). This is highly encouraged in many sales positions.

4. Usury: Many sales positions are commission based. Very often a company can afford to pay commissions because it exacts usury (historically understood as any interest, even 1%).

5. Neuro-linguistic Programming (‘NLP’): This was really big in my Dad’s day and has to do with changing someone’s thoughts or behaviors through the use of words in order to exact a desired outcome. It’s pseudoscientific manipulation.

6. Scripts: Many entry-level sales positions and job training seminars leverage a one-size fits all script that should be used. You see this perhaps most often with folks who sell things over the phone and then cold call folks. At 19 I had done this for a few weeks selling FOREX Options in South Florida. We weren’t interested in what was good for these people, really, or we had to lean in to our training to “believe in the product” and suppose we really were helping people.

7. 2 No’s and a Yes: Innocent enough on the surface, this tactic is very common in sales and its directed at the salesmen themselves. It’s a method for staying encouraged even when no one is buying what you’re selling. So it’s one part self-help and one part manifest destiny, really. The idea is to continue to stay highly motivated to make the sale even when multiple people are telling you no. It also presupposes customers should be buying what you’re selling.

8. Sell Me This Pen: A common exercise, often as part of an interview, where you’re asked to roleplay a scenario and sell the customer something common that everyone understands they don’t actually need - in this case, a pen. So you try to demonstrate your ability to overcome any resistance to buying this thing that really isn’t needed, often by manufacturing the need itself. Make the customer feel like they need it and like it’s their decision to buy it by subtly influencing them. You often will hear of good salesmen being able to “sell ice to Eskimos” or something along those lines for this very reason.

There are countless YouTube shorts, books, etc., aiming to equip would-be salesmen with various novel “don’t take no for an answer” methods for increasing their sales, with total disregard for whether or not the customer should be spending their money at all, let alone spending their money on what you’re selling. Yet by virtue of the position, it is simply presupposed that the best choice for the customer is to buy, buy, buy.

If I recall correctly, in the days of the early church there were many roles which were discouraged or prohibited among professing believers, such as actors and gladiators. Nowadays the only thing that is forbidden is forbidding anything. Some positions really ought not be pursued by professing Christians.

To be clear, sales isn’t something I simply have a chip on my shoulder about. I think many of the same moral and ethical dilemmas would present themselves in other lines of work, such as in marketing. But if you’re going to be successful in sales, barring some altruistic niche, I think it’s very often going to promote compromise.

Did you move to South Carolina yet?

 

[Deleted member 13126]

Did you move to South Carolina yet?

Howdy friend! Yes Sir, we sure did. We've been here since the end of June and are finally getting settled in. We've already been sick twice in that time, though, so we're still getting used to the germs.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Howdy friend! Yes Sir, we sure did. We've been here since the end of June and are finally getting settled in. We've already been sick twice in that time, though, so we're still getting used to the germs.

I hope you are enjoying it so far. We love it here. Our family is planning to go to Carowinds on Thursday if you want/are able to meet up?

 

[Deleted member 13126]

I hope you are enjoying it so far. We love it here. Our family is planning to go to Carowinds on Thursday if you want/are able to meet up?

I sent you a PM, but tentatively, yes. The wife's up for it (although she's still sick). One of the four kids are sick and it's unclear if it's going to move through the house or stop in its tracks. Provided we're all well, I'd love to take the day off and meet up. Look forward to chatting more about it.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I'm not a salesperson, per se, but am involved in the capture of new customers for a business that does work for both the private and public sector.

I think it's easy for someone involved in tech to see their job as straightforward and wonder why salespersons seem to misrepresent the capabilities of a product.

IT is an interesting field because, in most cases, even those involved in IT know very little about the entire IT landscape that businesses need. They tend to have a narrow technical focus. A software developer often knows little about how an application scales in infrastructure, how to secure it, or how to deploy it most efficiently. A storage admin many not know that his technology doesn't scale well or how to use "as-code" to automate many of the things that he does. Often tech people don't really understand the business case for the technology they support or why the very technology of the company they support is inferior to another offering for a particular customer.

In short, it would be easy to make a case that a tech person, who "knows what he knows", is involved in waste and that a more efficient offering could be made to internal as well as external customers if he knew more about the entire spectrum of the IT field. Likewise, an IT security person may be so rigid and not understand how risk works that he causes waste in time and money where, if sharper, he would be "more approved" in terms of how he is using his talents.

That is all to say, that it may seem that a person with a definitive job can think that he is secure from criticism for the work he is engaged in because he lacks the knowledge, experience, or context to know that he's actually part of a broader problem in a company being unable to adapt to a changing marketplace and that the livelihoods of persons will be taken away because the company cannot adapt to a changing work environment.

At the end of the day, the two most important things for a successful company are the ability to operate well in such a way that they achieve high customer satisfaction and that the solutions they provide meet or exceed what their customers need to support some underlying operational requirement combined with a sales team who will capture new customers and continue to fuel the ability for the company to succeed as they lose customers and take on new ones. Without good ops and good sales, a company will not succeed and it is very hard to work for a company with a poor sales team just as it is for one where operations and delivery is poor.

Salespersons have a tough job. They are overhead for companies meaning that the company takes it out of hide to fund their activities and they are the earliest to be let go if they do not perform. Yes, some sales persons do not always know as well as others the underlying technology of the things they sell but the good ones have soft skils that are important to gaining and retaining new customers. For tech companies, salespersons are teamed with sales engineers who can help them answer questions about the underlying technology, but the best salesperson is not necessarily the most knowledgeable about the product and their lack of acumen in technology is not an ethical default any more than the lack of soft skills in the tech person is an ethical fault for that person.

 

[Ploutos]

I'm not a salesperson, per se, but am involved in the capture of new customers for a business that does work for both the private and public sector.

I think it's easy for someone involved in tech to see their job as straightforward and wonder why salespersons seem to misrepresent the capabilities of a product.

IT is an interesting field because, in most cases, even those involved in IT know very little about the entire IT landscape that businesses need. They tend to have a narrow technical focus. A software developer often knows little about how an application scales in infrastructure, how to secure it, or how to deploy it most efficiently. A storage admin many not know that his technology doesn't scale well or how to use "as-code" to automate many of the things that he does. Often tech people don't really understand the business case for the technology they support or why the very technology of the company they support is inferior to another offering for a particular customer.

In short, it would be easy to make a case that a tech person, who "knows what he knows", is involved in waste and that a more efficient offering could be made to internal as well as external customers if he knew more about the entire spectrum of the IT field. Likewise, an IT security person may be so rigid and not understand how risk works that he causes waste in time and money where, if sharper, he would be "more approved" in terms of how he is using his talents.

That is all to say, that it may seem that a person with a definitive job can think that he is secure from criticism for the work he is engaged in because he lacks the knowledge, experience, or context to know that he's actually part of a broader problem in a company being unable to adapt to a changing marketplace and that the livelihoods of persons will be taken away because the company cannot adapt to a changing work environment.

At the end of the day, the two most important things for a successful company are the ability to operate well in such a way that they achieve high customer satisfaction and that the solutions they provide meet or exceed what their customers need to support some underlying operational requirement combined with a sales team who will capture new customers and continue to fuel the ability for the company to succeed as they lose customers and take on new ones. Without good ops and good sales, a company will not succeed and it is very hard to work for a company with a poor sales team just as it is for one where operations and delivery is poor.

Salespersons have a tough job. They are overhead for companies meaning that the company takes it out of hide to fund their activities and they are the earliest to be let go if they do not perform. Yes, some sales persons do not always know as well as others the underlying technology of the things they sell but the good ones have soft skils that are important to gaining and retaining new customers. For tech companies, salespersons are teamed with sales engineers who can help them answer questions about the underlying technology, but the best salesperson is not necessarily the most knowledgeable about the product and their lack of acumen in technology is not an ethical default any more than the lack of soft skills in the tech person is an ethical fault for that person.

Thank you for this really helpful and insightful reply. I do hope that I haven't come across as wilfully dismissive and judgmental of the sales profession and people in it. Rather, I am seeking education so that those negative and nebulous conceptions can be challenged with better info. I have also wondered how I as a Christian would fare in sales and it's not a question I've been able to answer on my own. It might be just my wiring - I tend to think of myself as "objective" but in reality that means I am often somewhat critical. I want to know and be prepared for the downsides myself, and I tend to project that onto others.

I also realize that, in my role, a lot of my interactions occur in situations where some or all of the parties are at their worst. Our products usually work pretty well - and when they do, those clients don't call in. It's the odd situations - the unexpected problems for which we have no process in place, the customer who has fallen between the cracks, the hyper-complex network setups - that get to us. So "all" our customers are angry and unhappy with us. "All" the client service reps are ignorant of our product and "all" the project managers try to pass the buck to us for failed/incomplete installs and "all" the sales reps make promises that we can't deliver.

But you are right that the issue of perceived skill and usefulness works both ways. Since I'm just a level 1 tech in our front-line department, we get tickets kicked back to us a lot by the senior techs and engineers because some basic troubleshooting was left undone, either through ignorance or laziness or the stress of meeting expectations in a call-center environment. And you are right that a good company needs good technicians and good PR. I know all this in the abstract, but this has helped to make that more concrete and tangible. Who knows - with the way providence seems to work in my life, I may one day wake up to find myself in sales and doing quite well at it. All because I dared to think "I could never do that; I wouldn't be good at it; I don't know how I would manage it as a Christian", and the good Lord looked down at me and said "I'll show this rube a thing or two".

I really appreciate your input, Rich. Thanks once again.

 

[Edm]

I’m in sales. I have no problems with it ethically or morally. I tell the truth. If someone has a better product, I will work on getting something better to compete. My boss told me recently that what I need to improve is that I tell it like it is. If something’s good I tell it and if it’s bad I tell it. However this seems to work for me. I’m one of the few at the moment exceeding my goals by over 20%. People seem to appreciate honesty. I believe in my product and that makes it easy.

 

[Alan D. Strange]

I have also had disagreements with two Christian bosses over what extent Matt. 7:12 applies to commerce.

Phil,

Would you mind expatiating on this a bit?

Mt. 7:12 is one of the most universal principles imaginable and I can think of nothing to which it does not apply. I'd be interested in the details of someone arguing that there's some area in which it does not apply.

I think that this is relevant to the OP. If not, perhaps a moderator can advise.

Peace,
Alan

 

[Notthemama1984]

I've never been in sales, nor in my various fields of employment have I come into much contact with those who are. It's not traditionally been a field I could see myself in. As my wife frequently says, "You can't even convince me most of the time."

In my current job, working in a tech support capacity, I find that the atmosphere in my department involves a generally negative view of our sales department. The prevailing implicit view is that they are just there to sweet-talk people into shelling out more money on our products, while the sales people themselves know next to nothing about the actual products they are selling. This has caused me to realize that my subconscious opinion of the sales field is somewhat akin to the negative stereotypes of the legal field - a generally "tainted," unethical, and dishonest field that encourages the practice of "changing weights and measures".

I honestly don't have any good friends in sales that I can really ask about this, so here's an honest inquiry. Those of you who are in sales, or who have some familiarity with the field - what is it like being a Christian in that field? What are the ethical/moral challenges inherent to that line of work and how do you grapple with them? Alternatively, are there some people who hold to a view that Christians should avoid work in the sales field?

This is an honest and somewhat light-hearted inquiry. I have no intention of casting judgment on the field or on people in it. I am just processing a mixture of conscious and unconscious thoughts that have come into the light of day in my little brain of late, and I'm curious to hear what others think.

I have been a car salesman or finance manager for nearly 9 years now. Do you have any specific questions?

 

[ZackF]

I have been a car salesman or finance manager for nearly 9 years now. Do you have any specific questions?

Something inexpensive, seat a family of 4 comfortably, AWD, dependable, and under 50k miles on it?

 

[Notthemama1984]

Something inexpensive, seat a family of 4 comfortably, AWD, dependable, and under 50k miles on it?

Inexpensive? That is the tricky part. Used cars are nuts since covid.

 

[ZackF]

Inexpensive? That is the tricky part. Used cars are nuts since covid.

Yessir! Bonkers. Lol.

 

[MyCrows]

I have been a car salesman or finance manager for nearly 9 years now. Do you have any specific questions?

Does it come in black?

 

[Notthemama1984]

Does it come in black?

If you close your eyes, all vehicles are black........

 

[Edward]

Forget tech support, talk to the engineering folks about how sales over promises on features that don't exist, or perhaps the folks that do warranty repairs on how the sales folks will throw in warranties for free, so that the repair folks don't actually get the funding to cover the repairs. Sales gets the bonus, warranty gets dinged for not meeting budget.

I'm sure there are sales folks with integrity (see upthread), but as a general rule, most are more interested in closing the sale than they are in either the customer's or the company's outcome. And leave it to others to pick up the pieces.

 

[Phil D.]

Phil,

Would you mind expatiating on this a bit?

It was basically a full disclosure issue. How much potentially negative information should a client be made aware of before he purchases your product? The boss’ position was if the customer doesn’t specifically ask about something then we don’t need to tell them. My position was that, especially knowing something of the clients’ particular situation, there was good reason to believe they would want to be able to factor in certain negative information before making a final decision. I said that as a buyer I would certainly want a seller to give me that information, so it seems at that point the golden rule comes into play. Their response was, well, I would like people to give me things at cost, so am I then obligated to also do that for everyone? The proper response to that seemed obvious enough to me, but they didn’t necessarily agree…

 

[Semper Fidelis]

As an aside, one of the things I had to learn coming from the military into the commercial world is that the process is more constrained in the latter. In the military, when you are given something to do you infer a lot. That is to say that if someone tells you they need something done then you figure out both the explicit things you've been asked to do as well as all the implicit things that were not asked for that you believe are necessary to do this. In the military you're not necessarily concerned about the "cost" of these things as you are not constrained by that consideration.

In contrast, when you are dealing with a solicitation or a request for proposal, you cannot simply start adding all the implicit features that were not asked for as this adds cost. Some customers may want the features but if they are not spelled out then you are adding cost not only in the bid but in the execution. I think some end-customers can interpret this as someone giving them less than they asked for, but it cuts both ways because (in the government especially) there is a lack of attention in spelling out the requirements well so that all fair bids can bid on the actual work and the bids can be accurately and fairly compared with one another.

Extending this to other areas where a customer complains about something that was sold to them, it's possible that the salesperson over-promised on what was going to be delivered in the product offering, but it is also likely (and common) that the contracting officer who signed the contract either did not pay for a feature because they did not think it was necessary or they might have chosen the lowest cost bid because the bid that was 20% higher had all the features and the persons who were going to be using the product didn't fully realize that they were not going to get the features they believed they would.

I guess what I'm saying is that laziness, process, expectations, etc all play into this. I'm not removing all responsibility from sales to accurately represent what they are selling, but you can't always tell when you're getting a complaint over the phone whether it was really the fault of sales.

 

[ZackF]

As an aside, one of the things I had to learn coming from the military into the commercial world is that the process is more constrained in the latter. In the military, when you are given something to do you infer a lot. That is to say that if someone tells you they need something done then you figure out both the explicit things you've been asked to do as well as all the implicit things that were not asked for that you believe are necessary to do this. In the military you're not necessarily concerned about the "cost" of these things as you are not constrained by that consideration.

In contrast, when you are dealing with a solicitation or a request for proposal, you cannot simply start adding all the implicit features that were not asked for as this adds cost. Some customers may want the features but if they are not spelled out then you are adding cost not only in the bid but in the execution. I think some end-customers can interpret this as someone giving them less than they asked for, but it cuts both ways because (in the government especially) there is a lack of attention in spelling out the requirements well so that all fair bids can bid on the actual work and the bids can be accurately and fairly compared with one another.

Extending this to other areas where a customer complains about something that was sold to them, it's possible that the salesperson over-promised on what was going to be delivered in the product offering, but it is also likely (and common) that the contracting officer who signed the contract either did not pay for a feature because they did not think it was necessary or they might have chosen the lowest cost bid because the bid that was 20% higher had all the features and the persons who were going to be using the product didn't fully realize that they were not going to get the features they believed they would.

I guess what I'm saying is that laziness, process, expectations, etc all play into this. I'm not removing all responsibility from sales to accurately represent what they are selling, but you can't always tell when you're getting a complaint over the phone whether it was really the fault of sales.

As someone who has access to customer service calls and transcripts, the answer is about 50% to some degree, though not necessarily fraudulent. About 7 years ago, I sampled 10 situations where a customer said they were “lied” to. In two of those interactions, the customer was lied to, flat out. Whether intentional or not, false information was given as a response to direct questions about a product. Another two, wrong info was conveyed about a cost or feature but not as a response to a direct question. These errors in were in the context of regurgitating information about different products and services while bantering back and forth. Two of cases the customer spoke falsely flat out about a previous conversation. The recorded call and account memos reveal this. In other examples there was room for the previous agent to be more clear but the convo was not as the customer described it. There was no false behavior. A small sample I know but it is one of disputes, outlying cases, and not of one where the relationships and encounters have been honored as agreed by both parties.

 

[JLB]

I've been in sales for 13 years, in which 9 of them I was an unbeliver. As an unbeliver I always tried to be honest but would stretch the truth or outright lie if need be.

As a believer that is not the case anymore. I'll tell the truth even if it means more customer service problems. For example if a service problem has been forgotten by our warehouse I will say that it fell through the cracks and we missed it and didn't notice and I will then apologize. I try to keep Colossians 3:17 in everything that I do. I'd sooner be honest and not get a sale than lie and get the sale. By God's grace I do well and don't need to lie anymore. If my boss calls me out I will say as a Christian I will act as a God commands me and cannot do otherwise, and if he expects me to lie to customers than why should he expect me to not lie to him.

I hate "respect of persons" in sales, meaning if you grind me I'll give you a better deal, though I do have a profit margin I have to maintain, so I do have a cut-off regardless of who it is. If you don't ask you won't get a better deal and that's been eating at me lately. The way I look at it is if you don't ask you are agreeing to the price and see it as a value.

Then there is the issue of offering financing which is horrible in interest if you miss a payment.