Your Love is Extravagant and Song of Songs? No-EPers, please

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panta dokimazete

Panting Donkey Machete
Take a look/listen:

YouTube - Your Love is Extravagant

Lyrics:

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship... intimate
I find I’m moving to the rythyms of your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in our secret place

Your love is extravagant
Spread wide in the arms of Christ
Is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known
You considered me a friend -
capture my heart again

I think this song is a lot like the expressions in the SoS and appropriate for our Bridegroom - what do you think?

I like the song and would like to do it in worship, though I am tempted to modify 2 lyrics - the ones with fragrance and capture - although I am not sure the latter line couldn't be interpeted to be acknowledging our tendancy to wander.
 

Grymir

Puritan Board Graduate
Hi Panta! Like a moth to a flame, I've been drawn hither...

My 2 cents... I think this song is very similar to the Song of Solomon. I'm not of the camp that believes the SoS is a 'spiritualization' of the Bridegroom/Church. I know this goes against alot of Reformers and Theologians. But because of the sexual overtones, this would make it an inappropriate way to refer to our relationship with God. But very appropriate for our relationship with our mates. And herein is one of my beefs with the contemporary songs sung in Church. It sounds more like I should be singing them to my wife and not God.

I'm not EP, but a Hymn/Pipe Organ type of dude. The Hymns should be teaching something about God and should be describing what God does for us, not how we 'feel', especially the mushy kind of love, which is a lower form of love than what we should feel for God. The loss of the term 'sublime' is an example. Awe, majesty, grandeur, 'holiness' are better feelings that should be described. A love described in that song is, well for lack of a better term, like a 2nd level of love that we can express to another human being, not a kind of love that is with us and God. G. K. Chesterton does a great job in explaining the dumbing down of our feeling for God in his book 'Men Without Chests' It influenced me and opened my eyes to the difference.

Just my 2 cents - Grymir :judge:
 

Davidius

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
What exactly are the "rhythms" of God's grace? His fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place? :barfy: Seems like sentimental fluff to me. :2cents:
 

matthew11v25

Puritan Board Sophomore
I just have to say that I like this song mainly because I can play it on the mandolin (though its not that hard) and its a fun song to play. :)

That said I believe the song is a very beautiful/poetic way to explain the love of God..."extravagant". I also think that the word extravagant is one of the better words in the english language to use in speaking of God's love. Sure the song may "feel" sentimental, etc, but feelings explained in the song are true to the Christian faith. Whether or not the SoS is metaphorical, etc, God clearly speaks in intimate marital terms to his people in scritpure which would seem to warrant usage in the song.
 

Davidius

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
What exactly are the "rhythms" of God's grace? His fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place? :barfy: Seems like sentimental fluff to me. :2cents:
TOO BRUTAL!:lol: David man. Everything OK?:lol:

:lol: Everything's fine...I am just really sensitive to sappiness because that's all my previous Christianity (in a charismatic church) consisted of. It feels good to sit there with your eyes closed, swaying back and forth, talking about God's rhythms, intoxicating fragrances, and other such nonsense, but it's not much more than that. This is one of the songs we used to play when we would all sit in a dimly lit room and get all sappy in preparation of "prophesying over each other," so I guess it especially hits home.
 

etexas

Puritan Board Doctor
What exactly are the "rhythms" of God's grace? His fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place? :barfy: Seems like sentimental fluff to me. :2cents:
TOO BRUTAL!:lol: David man. Everything OK?:lol:

:lol: Everything's fine...I am just really sensitive to sappiness because that's all my previous Christianity (in a charismatic church) consisted of. It feels good to sit there with your eyes closed, swaying back and forth, talking about God's rhythms, intoxicating fragrances, and other such nonsense, but it's not much more than that. This is one of the songs we used to play when we would all sit in a dimly lit room and get all sappy in preparation of "prophesying over each other," so I guess it especially hits home.
Come on man.....admit it.....you miss the swaying!:lol: Did you lift our ams man?:cool:(I love your Dimly lit room touch.):lol:
 

panta dokimazete

Panting Donkey Machete
Wonder who moved this from the Worship forum - since the primary question was it's appropriateness for worship from a non-EP perspective?

Is EP the requirement for worship song discussions? Just curious.
 

Davidius

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Wonder who moved this from the Worship forum - since the primary question was it's appropriateness for worship from a non-EP perspective?

Is EP the requirement for worship song discussions? Just curious.

I dunno, maybe whoever moved it thought that the song was so bad that you were just joking when you asked about it, as if it were "The Free Will Song" or one of those other funny things posted for our amusement.

As I said, I was just discussing the song from a general perspective, not even within the context of worship, which is why I don't feel like I'm being intrusive as an EPer. What the thread title implies is that you don't want an EP debate. That's not at all my aim. I'm stepping into the non-EPer's shoes for a moment and saying that it would not be appropriate for worship since it's not appropriate outside of worship! :2cents: :)
 

Southern Presbyterian

Puritan Board Doctor
I don't know, JD. I'm no where near being EP and it seems awfully "warm and fuzzy" to me. I don't see a problem with listening to it outside of worship though. Just my :2cents:.
 

panta dokimazete

Panting Donkey Machete
Thanks, brother - that is really the crux of the conversation - "warm and fuzzy" or a word picture?

Are the principles in the text at all biblical?
 

Grymir

Puritan Board Graduate
I'm stepping into the non-EPer's shoes for a moment and saying that it would not be appropriate for worship since it's not appropriate outside of worship! :2cents: :)

Not appropriate outside of worship?? That's when this song would be most appropriate!! Private devotions, or when an individual wants to express their love for God personally, that's when I feel songs like this are very appropriate. The OP was about this song in church service. Outside of church is when this song would be perfectly O.k. It's got a good tune, the lyrics are refreshingly fresh, and with the SoS feel, better than most sappy 'love song's for Jesus'.

God Bless - Grymir :judge:
 

panta dokimazete

Panting Donkey Machete
I'm stepping into the non-EPer's shoes for a moment and saying that it would not be appropriate for worship since it's not appropriate outside of worship! :2cents: :)

Not appropriate outside of worship?? That's when this song would be most appropriate!! Private devotions, or when an individual wants to express their love for God personally, that's when I feel songs like this are very appropriate. The OP was about this song in church service. Outside of church is when this song would be perfectly O.k. It's got a good tune, the lyrics are refreshingly fresh, and with the SoS feel, better than most sappy 'love song's for Jesus'.

God Bless - Grymir :judge:

If the text reflect biblical principles - why is it innappropriate for worship?

Hosea 14:6
His shoots will sprout,And his beauty will be like the olive treeAnd his fragrance like the cedars of Lebanon.
 

Southern Presbyterian

Puritan Board Doctor
Thanks, brother - that is really the crux of the conversation - "warm and fuzzy" or a word picture?

Are the principles in the text at all biblical?

It is definitely a word picture, but I believe it is a "romantic" picture rather than an accurate picture of the love of Christ. Compare the terms used to describe love in the song with the words Paul uses in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 to describe Christian love.

I really don't think that "warm fuzzies" is the feeling we should be going for when contemplating the love of Christ. It should be more an attitude of gratefulness, awe, and wonder that He could love one such as us. When I read David in the Psalms, the later is the "feeling" I get rather than a warm place in my tummy. Does that make sense?
 

panta dokimazete

Panting Donkey Machete
ok - so, help me understand - we have drawn a correlation between the text images and the SoS - is the SoS loving images only evocative of "warm and fuzzy feelings in the tummy" or a deep and passionate love?

(Trying to be conversational - hope that is coming across in my tone. :))
 

Grymir

Puritan Board Graduate
Oh, I guess that's why I stay away from EP Only threads. I feel like I must be one of two or three non-EP people here. I wouldn't sing parts of the Song of Soloman either.
 

ModernPuritan?

Puritan Board Freshman
from the belief that scripture speaks to all areas of life, I beileve that SOS`s main/primary message is to the husband and wife relationship. yes folk with P.H.Ds suggest its about Christ and the church other Folk with P.H.Ds say its just a husband and wife. due to its blunt statements i beileve that SOS should stay as even some of my Orthodox Jewish friends beileve a book about a physical husband and wife only.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Wonder who moved this from the Worship forum - since the primary question was it's appropriateness for worship from a non-EP perspective?

Is EP the requirement for worship song discussions? Just curious.

No, EP is not a requirement for worship song discussions.

I moved the thread because it looked like the conversation was heading toward a discussion of the asthetics of the song.

Regardless, I don't think it is a proper worship song because of its theology, in particular:

I find I’m moving to the rythyms of your grace

The line strongly suggests that grace is something that we cooperate with. But as confessional Christians, we view grace as the unmerited and free favor of God.

As has been mentioned earlier, the song's view of the Grace of God is more commonplace in Charismatic or Catholic circles. But I think this "word picture" denigrates the Grace of God: it's some kind of background feature we groove to.

BTW, I'm not an EPer.
 

Grymir

Puritan Board Graduate
Definitely a deep and passionate love in SoS. It's the sexual stuff that wouldn't make it appropriate. Nowwhere does God relay his love to us in those kind of terms. That's why I refered to it as a 2nd level kind of love. But warm and fuzzy it ain't. Earthy.

Now on a relevent thought. Panta, I followed your link you provided. NarroWay is right on! (I chuckled over the claping in time. Something that our praise band can't do.) Compair your band's lyrics to the Extravagant song. Big difference. NarroWay sings about what God has done for us. And how to receive His salvation. The Joy In The Morning video was GREAT!! I would welcome you to come and play in our Church. You should put that vid here on PB in the Music section.

Y'all check out Panta's link above to see how it's done right.

God Bless - Grymir :judge:
 
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