Working with a transgender coworker

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B

bbish

Puritan Board Freshman
Hello all,

A coworker of mine (I'll call him David) decided they would like to be referred to with female pronouns and with a new, legally changed name (Sarah). I work in a large department and fortunately don't work closely with him all that much, but every two weeks or so I'll spend the better part of 5 hours working with him. I'm conflicted on how to approach this in a loving way while also not being seen as encouraging sin or perversions of God created genders/sexes. I read this the other day from Tim Bayly which I thought was good (https://warhornmedia.com/2019/12/12/email-signatures-and-pronoun-preferences/) though it doesn't touch directly on my quandary (though he notes I really do face the prospect of being fired for not toeing the progressive line).

Has anyone here dealt with this? After talking with my pastor and my wife, I'm inclined to use the name and pronouns he prefers and just show him Christian love and hopefully he sees the power the gospel has had in my life and accepts it into his. I still feel uneasy about the whole thing (though everyone I work with feels pretty uneasy about it but I want to approach this from a Christian point of view).
 
How important is your job to you? How militant is your company to be gender neutral? If you choose to disrespect the wishes of your co-worker you may get disciplined according to company policy. You may be disciplined for harassment or many other things. We live in a different world now days than my generation was raised in.
 
What were your pastor's reasons?

I don't wish to counter a pastor's advice. But my gut instinct is that to call a "he" as "she" or the other way is to lie. It's not true to the facts.

This is worth discussing. We will all face it. My license's biggest society is pushing this big now. And this will impact buying and selling, be sure of it.
 
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Www.ceoaction.com

800 big-company CEOs have pledged they will make this a big talking point in their businesses.

I got that link from a blog article published by my licensing society. Their CEO pledged and is keeping his word.
 
How often do you use pronouns when working with someone? And if someone says their name is _____________, who are you to disagree?
 
bbish said:
Hello all,

A coworker of mine (I'll call him David) decided they would like to be referred to with female pronouns and with a new, legally changed name (Sarah). I work in a large department and fortunately don't work closely with him all that much, but every two weeks or so I'll spend the better part of 5 hours working with him. I'm conflicted on how to approach this in a loving way while also not being seen as encouraging sin or perversions of God created genders/sexes. I read this the other day from Tim Bayly which I thought was good (https://warhornmedia.com/2019/12/12/email-signatures-and-pronoun-preferences/) though it doesn't touch directly on my quandary (though he notes I really do face the prospect of being fired for not toeing the progressive line).

Has anyone here dealt with this? After talking with my pastor and my wife, I'm inclined to use the name and pronouns he prefers and just show him Christian love and hopefully he sees the power the gospel has had in my life and accepts it into his. I still feel uneasy about the whole thing (though everyone I work with feels pretty uneasy about it but I want to approach this from a Christian point of view).
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But how do we show Christian love to someone by participating in a lie? This is a tough situation but will eventually reach all of us. In another thread it was emphasized that we should obey the laws of the government unless and until they cause us to disobey God. Now I know the State does not yet have complete power in this area but who can doubt that it’s coming? If many of us decide to go along with these requirements for various reasons I do not judge. But please don’t wrap it in some false idea of “Christian love” to justify it. That’s liberalism 101 and never ends well.
 
KMK said:
How often do you use pronouns when working with someone? And if someone says their name is _____________, who are you to disagree?
Click to expand...

More so when talking with other coworkers while around him. For instance, telling someone else that "he's on the phone and can't talk right now". The pronoun thing is largely easy to avoid anyways just through speaking thoughtfully. I'm largely with you on the name thing. Funnily enough, he picked a female name with pretty overt Christian significance.

To answer someone else's question, my pastor's reasoning was I shouldn't try to start off combative with him. He isn't receptive to the gospel as of right now (in addition to this transgender stuff, he has brought a wicca book into work and will read it on break and talk with people about it). I know he's in a tough place, because someone doesn't do what he's doing without having some pain. I know when he told me he was transgender he expected a negative reaction because he said as much because he knows I'm Christian. I do want him to know I don't hate him. I told him I pray for him regularly recently and he was appreciative of that.
 
bbish said:
More so when talking with other coworkers while around him. For instance, telling someone else that "he's on the phone and can't talk right now". The pronoun thing is largely easy to avoid anyways just through speaking thoughtfully. I'm largely with you on the name thing. Funnily enough, he picked a female name with pretty overt Christian significance.

To answer someone else's question, my pastor's reasoning was I shouldn't try to start off combative with him. He isn't receptive to the gospel as of right now (in addition to this transgender stuff, he has brought a wicca book into work and will read it on break and talk with people about it). I know he's in a tough place, because someone doesn't do what he's doing without having some pain. I know when he told me he was transgender he expected a negative reaction because he said as much because he knows I'm Christian. I do want him to know I don't hate him. I told him I pray for him regularly recently and he was appreciative of that.
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No, to be confrontational is not what I am saying. You seem to have a good relationship with him and have let him know that you genuinely care for him. You have shown him the love of Christ for sinners (us). But is there a way to possibly explain to him that while you care him and want the best for him you cannot disobey your God?

I’m not convinced that the strategy of avoiding pronouns will work for very long. It’s been tried. In northern VA a Christian public school teacher, very popular, tried that with a student with whom he had a warm relationship. He was perceived to have created a hostile environment for the student and was fired anyway.

I do agree that it is not lying to call someone by whatever name they choose. Remember a boy named Sue?
 
Susan777 said:
But how do we show Christian love to someone by participating in a lie? This is a tough situation but will eventually reach all of us. In another thread it was emphasized that we should obey the laws of the government unless and until they cause us to disobey God. Now I know the State does not yet have complete power in this area but who can doubt that it’s coming? If many of us decide to go along with these requirements for various reasons I do not judge. But please don’t wrap it in some false idea of “Christian love” to justify it. That’s liberalism 101 and never ends well.
Click to expand...

My pastor was basically coming from the point of view that he's a co-worker, not a relative or even a friend (we don't hang out or communicate outside of the workplace). It's not on me to be an upfront rebuttal to his sin and provide "tough love" like maybe I would have to if he were my brother. That by hopefully showing him the happiness and contentment I have with my family and with God that I could serve as an example to him. So when I say "Christian love", I'm not going to invite him over and have him in my house but I don't want him to think that I hate him because I don't. If anything, I have tremendous sympathy for him because I can't imagine the pain he must be going through to think all of this is a good idea.
 
I agree with your pastor. He isn't a child of God (yet) that you are required to point out his sin in order for him to repent then take it to the elders if he doesn't. He's like every other unbeliever you work with. We don't go around pointing out and condemning other unbeliever's sin to them. Scripture tells us not to judge those outside of the church bc that's God's job. Our job is to give them the Gospel by word and deed. If the subject comes up about transsexualism, then you will have the opportunity to tell him the truth. I don't treat the homosexuals and pro-abortioners at work differently, but if the subject ever comes up I will and have told them the truth.
 
bbish said:
More so when talking with other coworkers while around him. For instance, telling someone else that "he's on the phone and can't talk right now". The pronoun thing is largely easy to avoid anyways just through speaking thoughtfully. I'm largely with you on the name thing. Funnily enough, he picked a female name with pretty overt Christian significance.

To answer someone else's question, my pastor's reasoning was I shouldn't try to start off combative with him. He isn't receptive to the gospel as of right now (in addition to this transgender stuff, he has brought a wicca book into work and will read it on break and talk with people about it). I know he's in a tough place, because someone doesn't do what he's doing without having some pain. I know when he told me he was transgender he expected a negative reaction because he said as much because he knows I'm Christian. I do want him to know I don't hate him. I told him I pray for him regularly recently and he was appreciative of that.
Click to expand...

All that really could be true you say, that he really is hurting. God bless you for your kindness to him.

Still, I think such a move will be seen by the transgender movement as capitulation. And in some degree, it is. I don't see how calling a "he" to be "she" is truth, names aside.

@Susan777 provides a needed caution. I think we in the church bought an idea that if we would just be warm and friendly (as though the church never has been) then we can win over the world. None loved like Christ, none does to this day, and He is hated anyway. There are multitudes of Christians who have tried a near over-loving approach to Sodomites, but the Sodomites are no less intentioned to make us bow. Even if your coworker may be a decent person, the Transgender movement itself does not forgive.

I feel for you. I see it coming down the pipe for myself. But I need to be determined that whatever obedience costs, it's worth the smile of God. What grace and
prayer you--all of us--need for such days! I will pray for you.
 
Agreed with above. I work for one of the biggest employers in the Maritimes, and they claim much inclusiveness. About 3 months ago, I saw a very tall woman coming my way from across our little show room, noticed the walk didn't match the walk of a woman, then I heard the voice...it was much higher pitch than women, with an adam's apple.

Then word got around real quick that he/she is a transgender. So naturally, we had no idea what pronoun to use. I work at a big truck dealership...political correctness isn't exactly in the trucker's vocabulary.

We all asked our supervisor, probably the least political correct one in the building, and he simply said, "call her Sarah"...(Ironically the same name).

The bonus, I work nights, never see Sarah. The other bonus, Sarah only comes in our shop once every 4 - 5 months, that person works in the "continuous improvement" department. I'm not interested in a career in that department, so I should be fine.

The other part I agree with is, with no close intimate relationship with that person (relative, long time friend...) in a sense we are not responsible for their mental support, acknowledgement, validation and whatever other word you want to use there.

We are responsible for respecting them. And if the door or question arises about our faith, we are to share lovingly, compassionately and boldly.

Here's an article about Nike...the shoe brand, which is "woke" getting sued for not being woke enough. I think this transgender thing is going to self implode.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/form...illion-claims-preferred-pronouns-were-ignored
 
Couple things:

I work and have worked with people who consider themselves transgender. Often times the work place is not the most appropriate place to "get into the issue."

1. When interacting with the person, pronouns are unnecessary.

2. Use the name by which they want to be called, not the pronoun.

Sex/gender are rightfully assigned by God alone (Gen. 1:27). Names are rightfully assigned by man (Gen. 2:20, 3:20). Names can be changed for good reasons (Gen. 17:5) or bad reasons (e.g. Jehoahaz to Ahaziah, essentially taking God out of his name).
 
Rom 12:18 weighs on my heart with this issue. I can live at peace with names but sex/pronouns are a different matter.
 
If he legally changed his name to Sarah, then his name is Sarah. Avoid calling him "she" and just say, "Hey you" or "Sarah."
 
Gendered pronouns are an accident of language--in some languages everything has a gender, and that gender changes with different names for the same thing. We call boats a "she" though they could be an "it." To insist that I'm lying by ascribing a gender to my boat that is does not have is ridiculous. So it the panic about using people's preferred pronouns. We can show christian love by using any pronoun people want, and if they consider it a victory, they will soon see that it is a hollow one--they will still have that unsatisfied longing of soul that they though could be filled by making us use different words. Sure, they'll turn to some other thing then, still hoping to find fulfilment in being a bother to the rest of us, but maybe eventually they'll learn that happiness is not in that course, just like the social justice people who after they get everything they think they want, are still empty. Let them have their pronouns--call then zee and zer; call them thee and thou and ye; language is the least of our worries here.
 
Ben Zartman said:
Gendered pronouns are an accident of language--in some languages everything has a gender, and that gender changes with different names for the same thing. We call boats a "she" though they could be an "it." To insist that I'm lying by ascribing a gender to my boat that is does not have is ridiculous. So it the panic about using people's preferred pronouns. We can show christian love by using any pronoun people want, and if they consider it a victory, they will soon see that it is a hollow one--they will still have that unsatisfied longing of soul that they though could be filled by making us use different words. Sure, they'll turn to some other thing then, still hoping to find fulfilment in being a bother to the rest of us, but maybe eventually they'll learn that happiness is not in that course, just like the social justice people who after they get everything they think they want, are still empty. Let them have their pronouns--call then zee and zer; call them thee and thou and ye; language is the least of our worries here.
Click to expand...

I would respectfully disagree. Pronouns in our language in conjunction with people are directly associated with gender, which is precisely why they want them changed.
 
timfost said:
I would respectfully disagree. Pronouns in our language in conjunction with people are directly associated with gender, which is precisely why they want them changed.
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Sure, Tim, but do they really win any victory if we call them what they want? If we had to carefully speak only perfectly true things, where would be sarcasm, where metaphor, where irony, where figurative language? I couldn't say "ain't no way" and be understood. I can let go of something that irks me like the pronoun thing does for the sake of not giving them any ammo.
 
bbish said:
legally changed name (Sarah)
Click to expand...

If it's his legal name, I don't see any issue with using it. I'd use the name, and avoid ANY pronouns like the plague. There's not much you can do about his mental illness except avoid provoking him.
 
Life is naturally thorny with many grey areas. There is being wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Though, we have to ask if we've just come to a place where we have to suffer for Christ's sake. If we cannot both avoid suffering and honor Christ, shame on us if we prefer not to suffer.

And Christ did tell us such things would happen. Granted, it's amazing what utter insanity it is coming by, but God promised that those who don't honor and worship him would become the worst of fools. And those who love sin and foolishness will hate the church.

But as our sufferings of Christ abound, so does the consolation of Christ--that is, the suffering for His namesake. As Paul knew all too well, even feeling the sentence of death in himself, that he would learn not to trust Himself, but God who raises the dead.

There's the question, is there a nice way to approach this? Is there really such a thing as "pronoun hospitality"? Ask Lot if there was any real way to appease the Sodomites in his city. He wants to prevent one abominable act by proposing an only slightly less abominable act. What do they respond? "This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judged: now we will deal worse with thee, than with them." And who doubts this has been the approach of the movement? "We're going to sue your cake bakeries and photographers." "We're going to take away your tax-exempt status." "We're going to boycott and protest your stores, and prevent you from opening up more locations."

Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, "You're going to pay big time for not going along with us."

Ben Zartman said:
Sure, Tim, but do they really win any victory if we call them what they want? If we had to carefully speak only perfectly true things, where would be sarcasm, where metaphor, where irony, where figurative language? I couldn't say "ain't no way" and be understood. I can let go of something that irks me like the pronoun thing does for the sake of not giving them any ammo.
Click to expand...

The victory for them is for the church to capitulate. Any compromise, and they are confirmed in their sins. Best of all in their book, God is blasphemed by what they see as the church admitting against God's revealed will that there are ultimately no natural gender distinctions. Which means too they can sin in the way they want.

In the recent discussion of Chic-Fil-A someone brought up Daniel and the prayer law. Perhaps he could've just gotten away from the window. Maybe just found a more secret place to pray. However, any visible sign of ceasing to pray, and his enemies would count it a victory.

I can call a boat as "she" and everyone knows I don't think the ship is a female. When a male is asking to be called "she", he is asking to be affirmed as a female. Vice versa. They don't want to be who they are made by God to be. There is no irony or sarcasm or metaphor in our use of pronouns when speaking person to person in the ordinary course of language. She = "I speak to you as you are a woman", he = "I speak to you as you are a male."
 
RPEphesian said:
Life is naturally thorny with many grey areas. There is being wise as serpents and gentle as doves. Though, we have to ask if we've just come to a place where we have to suffer for Christ's sake. If we cannot both avoid suffering and honor Christ, shame on us if we prefer not to suffer.

And Christ did tell us such things would happen. Granted, it's amazing what utter insanity it is coming by, but God promised that those who don't honor and worship him would become the worst of fools. And those who love sin and foolishness will hate the church.

But as our sufferings of Christ abound, so does the consolation of Christ--that is, the suffering for His namesake. As Paul knew all too well, even feeling the sentence of death in himself, that he would learn not to trust Himself, but God who raises the dead.

There's the question, is there a nice way to approach this? Is there really such a thing as "pronoun hospitality"? Ask Lot if there was any real way to appease the Sodomites in his city. He wants to prevent one abominable act by proposing an only slightly less abominable act. What do they respond? "This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judged: now we will deal worse with thee, than with them." And who doubts this has been the approach of the movement? "We're going to sue your cake bakeries and photographers." "We're going to take away your tax-exempt status." "We're going to boycott and protest your stores, and prevent you from opening up more locations."

Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, "You're going to pay big time for not going along with us."



The victory for them is for the church to capitulate. Any compromise, and they are confirmed in their sins. Best of all in their book, God is blasphemed by what they see as the church admitting against God's revealed will that there are ultimately no natural gender distinctions. Which means too they can sin in the way they want.

In the recent discussion of Chic-Fil-A someone brought up Daniel and the prayer law. Perhaps he could've just gotten away from the window. Maybe just found a more secret place to pray. However, any visible sign of ceasing to pray, and his enemies would count it a victory.

I can call a boat as "she" and everyone knows I don't think the ship is a female. When a male is asking to be called "she", he is asking to be affirmed as a female. Vice versa. They don't want to be who they are made by God to be. There is no irony or sarcasm or metaphor in our use of pronouns when speaking person to person in the ordinary course of language. She = "I speak to you as you are a woman", he = "I speak to you as you are a male."
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A thousand amens.
 
I have learned so much from the Puritans. They were a beacon of light to me during those years as an Arminian. They were so intensely focused on living for the glory of God alone. They were willing to endure persecution and the loss of property and station in this life because their eyes were fixed on Christ. They understood that one day they would give an account for their every word to Holy God.

These days will bring about a shaking of the house of God. Let’s never forget that the sufferings of this age are as nothing compared to the glory that awaits us. We are told “Do not be conformed to this world”. What light is the Christian in the world if she conforms to it? Soon it will be illegal to be a truth teller. But if we are persecuted for righteousness sake we have only done what we ought. We cannot ever agree with perversion if we love our Lord because the test of love is obedience.

We are instructed to love and pray for those who hate and persecute us. And so we should. Our witness should be clear that we care for these people, not as a strategy to avoid their reproach, but because our Savior has commanded this.
Are we not told to return good for evil? So when the time comes for many of us to conform to this world or suffer we must remember to fear God, not man.
 
Most of my contact with transgenders have been fairly brief through my job and I didn’t know them prior, but I assumed they were actually men who were transgendered. However, since I didn’t know them prior to this transition I went with their presentation. I’m not going to seek to call anyone out. (It’s interesting how many of the men who are transgendered are actually pretty masculine in build).

My other interaction, I was working in a mental health treatment facility with a guy who was transitioning, or a newly transgendered. He opened up about his sexual abuse as a child which was pretty horrific. He was so messed up. I used his preferred name of Miley, but when my coworker, who I think may have leaned homosexual, corrected me when I used a male pronoun to discuss a matter concerning’Miley’ I just responded, ‘oh, ok’ but proceeded by avoiding the pronoun all together.
 
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The power of God resides in the gospel, not in pronouns. Be ready to share the gospel. Encourage him in Christ. Invite him to church. Satan always wants us to fight the wrong battles.
 
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