Women uninterested in theology?

[LilyG]

Women uninterested in theology?

I see this has been addressed before (such as here), and I suppose I don't have any specific questions... Just a lament (a self-pity party? ) because frankly, I know there are women in my church who are apt. There are plenty who are wonderful company, and in areas where I, especially being an introvert, need to grow - like hospitality - put me to shame. Maybe this is the wrong way to think about this... but it's been an in-and-out source of real sadness. Not only for their sakes. I would be lying if I said I wasn't feeling lonely.

 

[Grant]

We all have places we fall short (men & women).

Regarding this area, Maybe some of the fault lies with the husbands. As the spiritual head, we should be leading, teaching, and encouraging our wives to improve on their theology in word and practice. And even before that some of the fault could lay as well with the father of these women (who were once their little children). Just one Example: Biblical Family Worship being neglected or watered down.

Now regarding unmarried women (and married for that matter), in the very least the answer would be for women with strengths in being theologically savvy to spend time teaching women who are weak in this area....and then vice versa where the women who are savvy in hospitality (one example) spend time teaching the women who are theologically savvy and weak in the hospitality area. (Iron sharpens Iron! Most of the problems we see with maturity in theology can be traced back to the home, in my opinion)


This particular “fault” can be found in men and women.

 

[Dachaser]

This is where cell groups that have female bible studies and prayer grouos are vital tothe life of a local church.

 

[Tom Hart]

In my own experience, I have seen no difference between the sexes in this matter. Both men and women neglect study of theology. My experience, though, lies very much in non-Reformed congregations.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Who do you have that you can talk about these things with?

 

[Guido's Brother]

I'm currently reading Aimee Byrd's No Little Women: Equipping All Women in the Household of God. She aims to address this problem.

 

[earl40]

You can call Earline if you want.

 

[LilyG]

Thank you all.

Who do you have that you can talk about these things with?

My husband is very interested in these things, is a good teacher and a great discussion partner! Very grateful for that.

For Women: In Soviet Russia, theology is uninterested in YOU!

LOL Joshua. Thanks. That does help. :-D

 

[TylerRay]

Women uninterested in theology?

I see this has been addressed before (such as here), and I suppose I don't have any specific questions... Just a lament (a self-pity party? ) because frankly, I know there are women in my church who are apt. There are plenty who are wonderful company, and in areas where I, especially being an introvert, need to grow - like hospitality - put me to shame. Maybe this is the wrong way to think about this... but it's been an in-and-out source of real sadness. Not only for their sakes. I would be lying if I said I wasn't feeling lonely.

Have you thought about trying to start up a reading group with women at your church? Several women at my church are reading through Calvin's Institutes together.

 

[bookish_Basset]

Hi, Lily--I just wanted to say that I can identify. (I identify with the introversion as well, and with feeling weaker in areas where other women in the church traditionally seem to be stronger...) I've been used to feeling like an oddball no matter where I go--I've been blessed with the opportunity to do some academic coursework in history and theology, but my classmates were usually men, and rarely Reformed. And sometimes I have a hard time relating to the topics and activities offered in typical women's ministries.

I like the reading group idea that was mentioned. I have thought about doing something similar, though if I were to lead such an endeavor, I think I'd need to partner with someone who's not as overwhelmingly shy as I am...

 

[LilyG]

Have you thought about trying to start up a reading group with women at your church? Several women at my church are reading through Calvin's Institutes together.

Heh, I'm considering getting a group together right now! I threw out the suggestion a couple weeks ago. Just have one or two ladies interested so far.

The Institutes would be great! My current reading list includes Ursinus' Commentary on the Heidelberg, and With Heart and Mouth (Danny Hyde) - no takers (lol). The only book suggestion I'm getting is How People Change. I'm not familiar with it, though it seems good on surface level (Gospel power for santification, basically. Anyone read it?). Although I'm reading Marshall's Gospel Mystery of Sanctification now, and, to me right now, it seems nothing else can top it! No takers though.

Hi, Lily--I just wanted to say that I can identify. (I identify with the introversion as well, and with feeling weaker in areas where other women in the church traditionally seem to be stronger...) I've been used to feeling like an oddball no matter where I go--I've been blessed with the opportunity to do some academic coursework in history and theology, but my classmates were usually men, and rarely Reformed. And sometimes I have a hard time relating to the topics and activities offered in typical women's ministries.

I like the reading group idea that was mentioned. I have thought about doing something similar, though if I were to lead such an endeavor, I think I'd need to partner with someone who's not as overwhelmingly shy as I am...

Well you should move here! :-D

I get ya. The one other lady interested in this is a good conversationalist, so I'm grateful.

 

[Jack K]

The only book suggestion I'm getting is How People Change. I'm not familiar with it, though it seems good on surface level (Gospel power for santification, basically. Anyone read it?).

I like How People Change. It isn't terribly theological, but it would be good for pastoral training and it goes deeper than a lot of popular Christian books. It won't meet your goal of discussing classic theological works, but it's a solid enough work otherwise. Perhaps if you ended up reading and discussing it, you could weave in a few insights from Walter Marshall.

 

[BuckeyeGirl]

Lily, I relate to both you and Bookish_Basset: I know very few women with whom I can have deep theological discussions. While I thankfully do have many godly female friends with whom I fellowship, our discussions rarely delve deeply into doctrinal matters. Conversations typically focus on the more practical or emotional sides of faith. Those are good things to discuss, I just crave deeper theological discussion.

Reading theology books and lurking on the Puritan Board help fill the void for me. I'm currently trying to learn more about eschatology, and I'm reading The Bible and The Future by Anthony Hoekema. I'm also ever so slowly making it through Owens' works on the mortification of sin. Sounds like you have a great reading list - if I lived near you I would jump at the chance of a reading group!

I too am weaker in some of the more "feminine" areas like hospitality - maybe these two traits go hand in hand. Sometimes this leaves me feeling deficient as a woman. I've also struggled with loneliness, because I feel like I don't quite fit in with most of the other women I know. One thing that has helped me is remembering that God made me the way I am for a reason. He has intentionally composed His church of members with a variety of personalities, strengths, and weaknesses. See 1 Cor. 12:12-27. This also encourages me to continue developing friendships with other women in the body despite our differences.

 

[LilyG]

I like How People Change. It isn't terribly theological, but it would be good for pastoral training and it goes deeper than a lot of popular Christian books. It won't meet your goal of discussing classic theological works, but it's a solid enough work otherwise. Perhaps if you ended up reading and discussing it, you could weave in a few insights from Walter Marshall.

Thanks, Jack! And I was thinking of doing that very thing. I can sneak it up on them.

Lily, I relate to both you and Bookish_Basset: I know very few women with whom I can have deep theological discussions. While I thankfully do have many godly female friends with whom I fellowship, our discussions rarely delve deeply into doctrinal matters. Conversations typically focus on the more practical or emotional sides of faith. Those are good things to discuss, I just crave deeper theological discussion.

Reading theology books and lurking on the Puritan Board help fill the void for me. I'm currently trying to learn more about eschatology, and I'm reading The Bible and The Future by Anthony Hoekema. I'm also ever so slowly making it through Owens' works on the mortification of sin. Sounds like you have a great reading list - if I lived near you I would jump at the chance of a reading group!

I too am weaker in some of the more "feminine" areas like hospitality - maybe these two traits go hand in hand. Sometimes this leaves me feeling deficient as a woman. I've also struggled with loneliness, because I feel like I don't quite fit in with most of the other women I know. One thing that has helped me is remembering that God made me the way I am for a reason. He has intentionally composed His church of members with a variety of personalities, strengths, and weaknesses. See 1 Cor. 12:12-27. This also encourages me to continue developing friendships with other women in the body despite our differences.

Yes yes yes! And thank you. You and bookish_Basset don't know how encouraging your words are.

I feel I should also clarify something that I think you touched on, BuckeyeGirl. It is a very good thing that we have studies and reading material at our general apprehension level. I really hope I don't give the impression that a rejection of the deeper, challenging stuff is, necessarily, a reflection of character. At the same time, I can't help but feel this should be more important to more women (for a number of reasons) than it actually is.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

Thanks, Jack! And I was thinking of doing that very thing. I can sneak it up on them.



Yes yes yes! And thank you. You and bookish_Basset don't know how encouraging your words are.

I feel I should also clarify something that I think you touched on, BuckeyeGirl. It is a very good thing that we have studies and reading material at our general apprehension level. I really hope I don't give the impression that a rejection of the deeper, challenging stuff is, necessarily, a reflection of character. At the same time, I can't help but feel this should be more important to more women (for a number of reasons) than it actually is.

I can really relate to you young ladies in your feeling rather alone in your churches and circles of women friends in your love of theology! However, be sure you really believe yourselves when you say you realize you have much to learn from those women in your church who are more inclined toward domestic pursuits, hospitality, and the such. As you grow older you’ll likely appreciate this more and more in them, and find such women (if they’re godly and loving) real treasures- as they should find you!

 

[Jo_Was]

I think one of the great ways to introduce "theology" is really to work it into conversation, particularly on the Lord's Day when it is apt. "What are you reading?" or "How are your feeling today?" or "Is there anything troubling you lately?" sound like words of hospitality and care, which they are, but they can also be ways to share a word/thought about a Psalm, or a personal study or book you have been going through. I used to be thinking the same thing too as I moved to my new church, and was kind of bored of Women's "studies" that were all about talking emotions, but I realized that being open, being hospitable is the way to open up to people and that leads to open doors with bringing theology more to the forefront. True, biblical hospitality really is bringing theology to the forefront. And because I believe many women do tend to be inclined to such things, that is how we can really communicate the reasons, the Gospel, the theology behind what we do.

Just by being mindful in conversations and opening up my home and providing insight in Bible studies has allowed women to ask me, "Oh, how do you know that?" or "How do you know so much?" or "What is that book you mentioned on X?" -- I think many people, women and men, are genuinely hungry for more--but partly because of the communities and expectations of practice in many of our churches, they may not realize that there is a wealth of knowledge out there that is attainable for them. I think people also get scared of the word, even though we ALL ought to be studiers of God. But, it is a real psychological hurdle. Did I think I was cut out for theology when I first came to the Reformed faith? Consider the husband trying to break out Van Til one Sunday morning early in our marriage as a starting point--yikes! But, whenever people, especially women, ask me how I know stuff (because they also know of my husband who is a teacher in the church and who many recognize as knowledgeable), I can show them that part of it is that we learn together and utilize our Lord's Day's to the utmost. I think it helps give confidence in the contrast of the personalities between me and my husband. Clearly, if I can learn, you can too...

So, I realize that this might be a little more difficult if you are very shy. But (protip), a lot of people are just waiting for someone to start the conversation, so you might as well start it off since you're both just waiting indefinitely for it, right? Anyway, opening myself up, being an active part of my church has allowed me to show that hospitality and theology go hand in hand. Our church really excels in being Gospel oriented when it comes to providing for the community and being hospitable, but I think I have seen that deepen as a few of the new leadership and families have started to buttress that same predisposition to hospitality and service with the theology behind it. We're starting to see women's Bible studies cover more intense topics than they had before and I just adore being there when older women in the faith talk about all the wonderful new things they are learning that they never thought about before and how it's bringing Scripture alive to them--and these are women who are very much God-centered, Christ-loving, servant women in the faith who have been at it far longer than I have even been alive--yet there is always "more" for us, no matter where we are in life!

I would really like to stress to many of the young ladies here (and men)-- "Hospitality" while something that some women do gravitate to naturally, is NOT a feminine trait. Just like learning to say "thank you" as a politeness, or learning how to be studious or learning how to react in different social situations--these are LEARNED and learn-able things. So please do not be discouraged! One of my goals this past year having moved to our new church has been to practice my hospitality--as an outworking of my faith--and hospitality isn't necessarily having people over for brunch, with a perfect casserole, place settings, and a tidy home (though it can be). Hospitality is being there--being available--for whatever you can, whenever you can, however you can--and it can be the humblest of things. So, this can be something done even if you are not a "natural" extrovert (though once again I believe that extroversion and introversion as far as "being shy" to talk in social situations is something that can also be trained--I was not always "an extrovert" but I have to tell myself that I want to be "that person" who starts the conversation and follows through.) But, one thing that can help even if you are not as outgoing, is to just be present in peoples' lives. Be genuinely concerned and asking of people's lives and follow through. Be encouraging. Be there for events if you can, but if not, be a present part of peoples' lives. The advice I always give is to just "be there." If nothing else--if you don't say a word--just be in situations where your presence is known, where others can depend on you to be there. It's a step.

Lastly, if we really consider ourselves a part of the family of God, brothers and sisters in the faith, then we should certainly not be surprised if we end up surrounded by a bunch of people who have completely clashing personalities to us! You don't get to choose the blood family you are born into, and similarly with our spiritual family. I think that's an amazing encouragement. One of the great things about the Church is it *does* provide that common base--Christ--that you can work off of to interact and get to know people who you otherwise never might outside of the church. Just like in a real family--it is work, maybe even tough work--but our commonality in Christ should be SO MUCH DEEPER than any blood we may share.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

I think one of the great ways to introduce "theology" is really to work it into conversation, particularly on the Lord's Day when it is apt. "What are you reading?" or "How are your feeling today?" or "Is there anything troubling you lately?" sound like words of hospitality and care, which they are, but they can also be ways to share a word/thought about a Psalm, or a personal study or book you have been going through. I used to be thinking the same thing too as I moved to my new church, and was kind of bored of Women's "studies" that were all about talking emotions, but I realized that being open, being hospitable is the way to open up to people and that leads to open doors with bringing theology more to the forefront. True, biblical hospitality really is bringing theology to the forefront. And because I believe many women do tend to be inclined to such things, that is how we can really communicate the reasons, the Gospel, the theology behind what we do.

Just by being mindful in conversations and opening up my home and providing insight in Bible studies has allowed women to ask me, "Oh, how do you know that?" or "How do you know so much?" or "What is that book you mentioned on X?" -- I think many people, women and men, are genuinely hungry for more--but partly because of the communities and expectations of practice in many of our churches, they may not realize that there is a wealth of knowledge out there that is attainable for them. I think people also get scared of the word, even though we ALL ought to be studiers of God. But, it is a real psychological hurdle. Did I think I was cut out for theology when I first came to the Reformed faith? Consider the husband trying to break out Van Til one Sunday morning early in our marriage as a starting point--yikes! But, whenever people, especially women, ask me how I know stuff (because they also know of my husband who is a teacher in the church and who many recognize as knowledgeable), I can show them that part of it is that we learn together and utilize our Lord's Day's to the utmost. I think it helps give confidence in the contrast of the personalities between me and my husband. Clearly, if I can learn, you can too...

So, I realize that this might be a little more difficult if you are very shy. But (protip), a lot of people are just waiting for someone to start the conversation, so you might as well start it off since you're both just waiting indefinitely for it, right? Anyway, opening myself up, being an active part of my church has allowed me to show that hospitality and theology go hand in hand. Our church really excels in being Gospel oriented when it comes to providing for the community and being hospitable, but I think I have seen that deepen as a few of the new leadership and families have started to buttress that same predisposition to hospitality and service with the theology behind it. We're starting to see women's Bible studies cover more intense topics than they had before and I just adore being there when older women in the faith talk about all the wonderful new things they are learning that they never thought about before and how it's bringing Scripture alive to them--and these are women who are very much God-centered, Christ-loving, servant women in the faith who have been at it far longer than I have even been alive--yet there is always "more" for us, no matter where we are in life!

I would really like to stress to many of the young ladies here (and men)-- "Hospitality" while something that some women do gravitate to naturally, is NOT a feminine trait. Just like learning to say "thank you" as a politeness, or learning how to be studious or learning how to react in different social situations--these are LEARNED and learn-able things. So please do not be discouraged! One of my goals this past year having moved to our new church has been to practice my hospitality--as an outworking of my faith--and hospitality isn't necessarily having people over for brunch, with a perfect casserole, place settings, and a tidy home (though it can be). Hospitality is being there--being available--for whatever you can, whenever you can, however you can--and it can be the humblest of things. So, this can be something done even if you are not a "natural" extrovert (though once again I believe that extroversion and introversion as far as "being shy" to talk in social situations is something that can also be trained--I was not always "an extrovert" but I have to tell myself that I want to be "that person" who starts the conversation and follows through.) But, one thing that can help even if you are not as outgoing, is to just be present in peoples' lives. Be genuinely concerned and asking of people's lives and follow through. Be encouraging. Be there for events if you can, but if not, be a present part of peoples' lives. The advice I always give is to just "be there." If nothing else--if you don't say a word--just be in situations where your presence is known, where others can depend on you to be there. It's a step.

Lastly, if we really consider ourselves a part of the family of God, brothers and sisters in the faith, then we should certainly not be surprised if we end up surrounded by a bunch of people who have completely clashing personalities to us! You don't get to choose the blood family you are born into, and similarly with our spiritual family. I think that's an amazing encouragement. One of the great things about the Church is it *does* provide that common base--Christ--that you can work off of to interact and get to know people who you otherwise never might outside of the church. Just like in a real family--it is work, maybe even tough work--but our commonality in Christ should be SO MUCH DEEPER than any blood we may share.

Jo, I didn't realize you're in Snellville! We've visited there twice- did we meet?

 

[TylerRay]

Heh, I'm considering getting a group together right now! I threw out the suggestion a couple weeks ago. Just have one or two ladies interested so far.

The Institutes would be great! My current reading list includes Ursinus' Commentary on the Heidelberg, and With Heart and Mouth (Danny Hyde) - no takers (lol). The only book suggestion I'm getting is How People Change. I'm not familiar with it, though it seems good on surface level (Gospel power for santification, basically. Anyone read it?). Although I'm reading Marshall's Gospel Mystery of Sanctification now, and, to me right now, it seems nothing else can top it! No takers though.

If I could make a suggestion of a book that's not so daunting as Calvin or Ursinus, but still a good, edifying, theological read, I'd suggest something like Ferguson's The Christian Life: A Doctrinal Introduction, or perhaps The Whole Christ. Ferguson is uniquely gifted at producing accessible, edifying, and meaty work.

I'm sure How People Change would be a good, helpful read, too, though.

 

[bookish_Basset]

I can really relate to you young ladies in your feeling rather alone in your churches and circles of women friends in your love of theology! However, be sure you really believe yourselves when you say you realize you have much to learn from those women in your church who are more inclined toward domestic pursuits, hospitality, and the such. As you grow older you’ll likely appreciate this more and more in them, and find such women (if they’re godly and loving) real treasures- as they should find you!

This is such an important point--one that I need to keep in mind often. I have often wished that, when I was still in my 20s, I had not been too embarrassed to approach older women in my church and ask for help in these areas--earlier in marriage, as I was struggling to learn how in the world to go about managing a home, I felt ashamed of having missed many things that women apparently "just know." It barely occurred to me that these things can be learned, and that many would have been pleased to share their knowledge. Of course, now that I've muddled into my mid-30s, there is plenty I still don't know and could benefit from asking about!

 

[bookish_Basset]

So, I realize that this might be a little more difficult if you are very shy. But (protip), a lot of people are just waiting for someone to start the conversation, so you might as well start it off since you're both just waiting indefinitely for it, right?

This is very true. One thing I've discovered as a shy person is that sometimes, just dropping a note to someone I'm interested in getting to know better is very well received and can lead to wonderful one-on-one conversations over tea. This might seem obvious, but it was a bit of a revelation to me that others generally don't feel bothered when I reach out to them in this way--they're actually encouraged! And such conversations are far easier for those of us who feel overwhelmed in group settings where there is a lot of activity happening at once...

Hospitality is being there--being available--for whatever you can, whenever you can, however you can--and it can be the humblest of things. So, this can be something done even if you are not a "natural" extrovert (though once again I believe that extroversion and introversion as far as "being shy" to talk in social situations is something that can also be trained--I was not always "an extrovert" but I have to tell myself that I want to be "that person" who starts the conversation and follows through.) But, one thing that can help even if you are not as outgoing, is to just be present in peoples' lives. Be genuinely concerned and asking of people's lives and follow through. Be encouraging. Be there for events if you can, but if not, be a present part of peoples' lives. The advice I always give is to just "be there." If nothing else--if you don't say a word--just be in situations where your presence is known, where others can depend on you to be there. It's a step.

This is excellent advice, and so encouraging. I love the link between theology and hospitality that you bring out so well.

This thread is very much the kind of thing that prompted me to finally join PB, so I'm grateful that this could be one of my first conversations here! Really appreciate you all.

 

[LilyG]

I think one of the great ways to introduce "theology" is really to work it into conversation, particularly on the Lord's Day when it is apt. "What are you reading?" or "How are your feeling today?" or "Is there anything troubling you lately?" sound like words of hospitality and care, which they are, but they can also be ways to share a word/thought about a Psalm, or a personal study or book you have been going through. I used to be thinking the same thing too as I moved to my new church, and was kind of bored of Women's "studies" that were all about talking emotions, but I realized that being open, being hospitable is the way to open up to people and that leads to open doors with bringing theology more to the forefront. True, biblical hospitality really is bringing theology to the forefront. And because I believe many women do tend to be inclined to such things, that is how we can really communicate the reasons, the Gospel, the theology behind what we do.

Just by being mindful in conversations and opening up my home and providing insight in Bible studies has allowed women to ask me, "Oh, how do you know that?" or "How do you know so much?" or "What is that book you mentioned on X?" -- I think many people, women and men, are genuinely hungry for more--but partly because of the communities and expectations of practice in many of our churches, they may not realize that there is a wealth of knowledge out there that is attainable for them. I think people also get scared of the word, even though we ALL ought to be studiers of God. But, it is a real psychological hurdle. Did I think I was cut out for theology when I first came to the Reformed faith? Consider the husband trying to break out Van Til one Sunday morning early in our marriage as a starting point--yikes! But, whenever people, especially women, ask me how I know stuff (because they also know of my husband who is a teacher in the church and who many recognize as knowledgeable), I can show them that part of it is that we learn together and utilize our Lord's Day's to the utmost. I think it helps give confidence in the contrast of the personalities between me and my husband. Clearly, if I can learn, you can too...

So, I realize that this might be a little more difficult if you are very shy. But (protip), a lot of people are just waiting for someone to start the conversation, so you might as well start it off since you're both just waiting indefinitely for it, right? Anyway, opening myself up, being an active part of my church has allowed me to show that hospitality and theology go hand in hand. Our church really excels in being Gospel oriented when it comes to providing for the community and being hospitable, but I think I have seen that deepen as a few of the new leadership and families have started to buttress that same predisposition to hospitality and service with the theology behind it. We're starting to see women's Bible studies cover more intense topics than they had before and I just adore being there when older women in the faith talk about all the wonderful new things they are learning that they never thought about before and how it's bringing Scripture alive to them--and these are women who are very much God-centered, Christ-loving, servant women in the faith who have been at it far longer than I have even been alive--yet there is always "more" for us, no matter where we are in life!

I would really like to stress to many of the young ladies here (and men)-- "Hospitality" while something that some women do gravitate to naturally, is NOT a feminine trait. Just like learning to say "thank you" as a politeness, or learning how to be studious or learning how to react in different social situations--these are LEARNED and learn-able things. So please do not be discouraged! One of my goals this past year having moved to our new church has been to practice my hospitality--as an outworking of my faith--and hospitality isn't necessarily having people over for brunch, with a perfect casserole, place settings, and a tidy home (though it can be). Hospitality is being there--being available--for whatever you can, whenever you can, however you can--and it can be the humblest of things. So, this can be something done even if you are not a "natural" extrovert (though once again I believe that extroversion and introversion as far as "being shy" to talk in social situations is something that can also be trained--I was not always "an extrovert" but I have to tell myself that I want to be "that person" who starts the conversation and follows through.) But, one thing that can help even if you are not as outgoing, is to just be present in peoples' lives. Be genuinely concerned and asking of people's lives and follow through. Be encouraging. Be there for events if you can, but if not, be a present part of peoples' lives. The advice I always give is to just "be there." If nothing else--if you don't say a word--just be in situations where your presence is known, where others can depend on you to be there. It's a step.

Lastly, if we really consider ourselves a part of the family of God, brothers and sisters in the faith, then we should certainly not be surprised if we end up surrounded by a bunch of people who have completely clashing personalities to us!

I wish I had more time (ah, children!) to reply with as much thoughtfulness as you have given. Thank you so much. Those things (especially hospitality as a means an invitation to discussion and the Gospel) have been on my mind a lot, lately. Speaking of, you guys! Have any of you read Rosaria Butterfield's new book on this very thing? I've been wanting to get this for my own growth. Heard good things!

You don't get to choose the blood family you are born into, and similarly with our spiritual family. I think that's an amazing encouragement. One of the great things about the Church is it *does* provide that common base--Christ--that you can work off of to interact and get to know people who you otherwise never might outside of the church. Just like in a real family--it is work, maybe even tough work--but our commonality in Christ should be SO MUCH DEEPER than any blood we may share.

Yes! God has hand-picked each member of our church families.

Thank you again, ladies. It's encouraging to have sisters on the same page, and others who have been there, with helpful advice.

If I could make a suggestion of a book that's not so daunting as Calvin or Ursinus, but still a good, edifying, theological read, I'd suggest something like Ferguson's The Christian Life: A Doctrinal Introduction, or perhaps The Whole Christ. Ferguson is uniquely gifted at producing accessible, edifying, and meaty work.

I'm sure How People Change would be a good, helpful read, too, though.

Thank you!

 

[LilyG]

I think one of the great ways to introduce "theology" is really to work it into conversation, particularly on the Lord's Day when it is apt. "What are you reading?" or "How are your feeling today?" or "Is there anything troubling you lately?" sound like words of hospitality and care, which they are, but they can also be ways to share a word/thought about a Psalm, or a personal study or book you have been going through. I used to be thinking the same thing too as I moved to my new church, and was kind of bored of Women's "studies" that were all about talking emotions, but I realized that being open, being hospitable is the way to open up to people and that leads to open doors with bringing theology more to the forefront. True, biblical hospitality really is bringing theology to the forefront. And because I believe many women do tend to be inclined to such things, that is how we can really communicate the reasons, the Gospel, the theology behind what we do.

Just by being mindful in conversations and opening up my home and providing insight in Bible studies has allowed women to ask me, "Oh, how do you know that?" or "How do you know so much?" or "What is that book you mentioned on X?" -- I think many people, women and men, are genuinely hungry for more--but partly because of the communities and expectations of practice in many of our churches, they may not realize that there is a wealth of knowledge out there that is attainable for them. I think people also get scared of the word, even though we ALL ought to be studiers of God. But, it is a real psychological hurdle. Did I think I was cut out for theology when I first came to the Reformed faith? Consider the husband trying to break out Van Til one Sunday morning early in our marriage as a starting point--yikes! But, whenever people, especially women, ask me how I know stuff (because they also know of my husband who is a teacher in the church and who many recognize as knowledgeable), I can show them that part of it is that we learn together and utilize our Lord's Day's to the utmost. I think it helps give confidence in the contrast of the personalities between me and my husband. Clearly, if I can learn, you can too...

So, I realize that this might be a little more difficult if you are very shy. But (protip), a lot of people are just waiting for someone to start the conversation, so you might as well start it off since you're both just waiting indefinitely for it, right? Anyway, opening myself up, being an active part of my church has allowed me to show that hospitality and theology go hand in hand. Our church really excels in being Gospel oriented when it comes to providing for the community and being hospitable, but I think I have seen that deepen as a few of the new leadership and families have started to buttress that same predisposition to hospitality and service with the theology behind it. We're starting to see women's Bible studies cover more intense topics than they had before and I just adore being there when older women in the faith talk about all the wonderful new things they are learning that they never thought about before and how it's bringing Scripture alive to them--and these are women who are very much God-centered, Christ-loving, servant women in the faith who have been at it far longer than I have even been alive--yet there is always "more" for us, no matter where we are in life!

I would really like to stress to many of the young ladies here (and men)-- "Hospitality" while something that some women do gravitate to naturally, is NOT a feminine trait. Just like learning to say "thank you" as a politeness, or learning how to be studious or learning how to react in different social situations--these are LEARNED and learn-able things. So please do not be discouraged! One of my goals this past year having moved to our new church has been to practice my hospitality--as an outworking of my faith--and hospitality isn't necessarily having people over for brunch, with a perfect casserole, place settings, and a tidy home (though it can be). Hospitality is being there--being available--for whatever you can, whenever you can, however you can--and it can be the humblest of things. So, this can be something done even if you are not a "natural" extrovert (though once again I believe that extroversion and introversion as far as "being shy" to talk in social situations is something that can also be trained--I was not always "an extrovert" but I have to tell myself that I want to be "that person" who starts the conversation and follows through.) But, one thing that can help even if you are not as outgoing, is to just be present in peoples' lives. Be genuinely concerned and asking of people's lives and follow through. Be encouraging. Be there for events if you can, but if not, be a present part of peoples' lives. The advice I always give is to just "be there." If nothing else--if you don't say a word--just be in situations where your presence is known, where others can depend on you to be there. It's a step.

Lastly, if we really consider ourselves a part of the family of God, brothers and sisters in the faith, then we should certainly not be surprised if we end up surrounded by a bunch of people who have completely clashing personalities to us! You don't get to choose the blood family you are born into, and similarly with our spiritual family. I think that's an amazing encouragement. One of the great things about the Church is it *does* provide that common base--Christ--that you can work off of to interact and get to know people who you otherwise never might outside of the church. Just like in a real family--it is work, maybe even tough work--but our commonality in Christ should be SO MUCH DEEPER than any blood we may share.

I think I've read your comment three times through already. It makes me so happy.

 

[Jo_Was]

Jo, I didn't realize you're in Snellville! We've visited there twice- did we meet?

We were members of the FCC there, but have moved in the last couple of years, and now attend an ARP church near where we live. I am a bit of a PB lurker most of the time...so I forget to update my information!

I wish I had more time (ah, children!) to reply with as much thoughtfulness as you have given. Thank you so much. Those things (especially hospitality as a means an invitation to discussion and the Gospel) have been on my mind a lot, lately. Speaking of, you guys! Have any of you read Rosaria Butterfield's new book on this very thing? I've been wanting to get this for my own growth. Heard good things!

Yes, my pastor's wife lent me a copy and I have (not gotten very far yet), but have found it incredibly helpful and a great read, not just for women, but men in the church (especially those of special calling such as elder and deacon, I think some of her insights and even practical examples are very helpful in these servant roles). There are some ways in which what she says may make people feel "uncomfortable" but in the sense that it should be: convicting of many of our sins of omission--in not doing the things we ought, when we ought. In my own life, I have definitely felt that hospitality and acts of mercy has been an area where I do have particular ability and gifts in, but have sinfully neglected. So it has been a personally convicting challenge to me to better run toward these good things, just as one would run away from sinful acts. I know that is not everyone's story, but I have felt it as a part of my own.

It has been a topic much on my mind as I have begun to become a more integrated part of my church community. Our church's new pastor (who moved around when we did to the church) has been intentional about bringing more conscientiously reformed theology and thought to a church that has been around a long time in the community and has experienced ebbs and flows of more-or-less reformed teaching, and is also under a great influx of many newcomers to the church (many even from broadly evangelical backgrounds) as the community around it has been growing. So many of the women who are aware of this have been more conscientious about learning how we can use hospitality as a means to communicate the Gospel message, and to be winsome to those who are newer to the faith. There has been a great revitalization (I really think the Spirit has been sowing seeds) of the women in the church who are showing more interest in the things of Christ, and wanting to be more involved in the life of the church. As many of you, I had long searched for much of my Christian life for this depth...not until I came into the Reformed faith did I even find women I could genuinely call my role models of women, sisters, in the faith. And for a long time before, I craved that community and companionship that comes with shared interest in the things of Christ. So it is always such a blessing and encouragement to see the seeds of such blossom in this new community that I am in.

Another book we are going through is Aimee Byrd's "No Little Women" which explores the woman's role in the life of the church and in "ministry" within the body. Again, I haven't finished it yet, but so far I appreciated her introduction which really resonated with some of the bemoaning expressed in this thread--the idea that women are often left to the wayside, and greatly disserviced by the church and themselves when it comes to exploring truly theologically rich material and having a solid, Biblical grounding...often instead opting for light, even "milk" fare. There are various reasons she cites for this that I think are easily identifiable in some church experiences, one of which is a larger epidemic in many churches of lack of oversight in the education of some of its members.

Another book that I haven't read, but that some have expressed was also helpful, was Women's Ministry in the Local Church by J. Ligon Duncan and Susan Hunt. Again, I think they also explore the areas women struggle with, and how they can contribute to the life of the body.

 

[jwithnell]

A few thoughts:

Many, both male and female, are interested in their faith, contribute in many ways to their local churches, but are not interested in what I call theology with an uppercase T, as an academic pursuit. My daughters fall into this category.

Saying one is interested in theology is like saying one is interested in aviation. You might love aeronautical engineering but find historic aircraft boring. Learning to fly could be a passion, but you consider wildland fire and aviation a crazy combo. I love Biblical theology and exegesis, but haven't read much Calvin in a while.

In general, I think we can encourage other women to consider the appropriateness of our chosen topics, especially on the Lord's day. I believe churches are stronger when we don't divide along demographic lines. We need to be sensitive to the needs women have when they are isolated with small children -- i.e. women may divide off to deal with children, but they may love having a diverse group follow along with an engaging conversation on a topic of substance.

 

[bookish_Basset]

Saying one is interested in theology is like saying one is interested in aviation. You might love aeronautical engineering but find historic aircraft boring. Learning to fly could be a passion, but you consider wildland fire and aviation a crazy combo. I love Biblical theology and exegesis, but haven't read much Calvin in a while.

That reminds me of something else I've had the opportunity to do in our church. My particular area of study was church history/historical theology, and I was asked to contribute articles to the quarterly women's newsletter on notable women from church history. I generally try to profile someone who's a bit lesser known, and to point to a book or resource for further reading. I've found that many people don't necessarily have the time or inclination to follow the recommendations for deeper reading, but they do remember the stories I share in the articles, and I'm always surprised how encouraging these are to other women. My friends might not become amateur church historians, but stories stick with people, and they open up opportunities for interesting conversations. Even little opportunities like this to put past studies or passions to use can be a blessing to others. I try to remind myself of that when I'm feeling discouraged.

 

[TylerRay]

Jo, I didn't realize you're in Snellville! We've visited there twice- did we meet?

We were members of the FCC there, but have moved in the last couple of years, and now attend an ARP church near where we live. I am a bit of a PB lurker most of the time...so I forget to update my information!

Jeri,
She and her husband Jake are dear friends, and they are sorely missed; however, it made good sense logistically for them to make the move they did.

Jo Ann,
I'm glad to hear of all the ways Jake and you are able to invest yourselves into the life of the ARP congregation! May the Lord continue to bless you there!

 

[Jo_Was]

A few thoughts:

Many, both male and female, are interested in their faith, contribute in many ways to their local churches, but are not interested in what I call theology with an uppercase T, as an academic pursuit. My daughters fall into this category.

Saying one is interested in theology is like saying one is interested in aviation. You might love aeronautical engineering but find historic aircraft boring. Learning to fly could be a passion, but you consider wildland fire and aviation a crazy combo. I love Biblical theology and exegesis, but haven't read much Calvin in a while.

In general, I think we can encourage other women to consider the appropriateness of our chosen topics, especially on the Lord's day. I believe churches are stronger when we don't divide along demographic lines. We need to be sensitive to the needs women have when they are isolated with small children -- i.e. women may divide off to deal with children, but they may love having a diverse group follow along with an engaging conversation on a topic of substance.

I think there is wisdom here that hearkens to Paul in I Corinthians and Ephesians where he talks of spiritual gifts, and how some are endowed by the Spirit with particular gifts of wisdom, knowledge, teaching, and others to servanthood, works of mercy, etc. As a body, we should build one another up. So, those who are particularly gifted at relating and bringing to mind the Scriptures should remind and encourage others, and those who excel in acts of servanthood and mercy should likewise rouse their brethren to good works. When we see deficits in the life of the Church, perhaps it is a conviction of the Holy Spirit to offer ourselves and our gifts to fill that hole, as it were, or to encourage fruit in that area.

 

[LilyG]

women may divide off to deal with children

Hah, that is me right now!

You all have been so helpful. Thank you.

 

[a mere housewife]

So many wonderful posts here.

For what it's worth, I think a lot of women in the church are lonely, theologically interested or not. I think a lot of humans are. We can all point to this or that about ourselves and the general shape of our communities. But the loneliness itself can be a gift that makes you live more consciously in fellowship with God, reach out in more compassion for others, with more shared experience to relate.

God loves your mind. He made it, knows it intimately, and wants you to share with Him with all of it. When you are lonely in your theological pursuits, do remember that. He shares even our wordless apprehensions as no one else could. It is so sweet to have the human fellowship, and I don't mean to downplay that. But sweeter to have God's.

I find that it doesn't take (especially for introverts) a big group to feel that there is meaningful contact. Or a big book. Short chapters, experience based books, can still carry a lot of profound truths to relate over.

I can really relate to you young ladies in your feeling rather alone in your churches and circles of women friends in your love of theology! However, be sure you really believe yourselves when you say you realize you have much to learn from those women in your church who are more inclined toward domestic pursuits, hospitality, and the such. As you grow older you’ll likely appreciate this more and more in them, and find such women (if they’re godly and loving) real treasures- as they should find you!

Thank you for this. It is my experience. I have such a long way to go, and women in my church families have always reached all the way over it to take my hand and be gracious to me.

 

[beloved7]

In fairness, it's a widespread problem within Christendom in general. There are of course women who are interested in theology though. Anyone who is deeply interested in God Himself will, in turn, be interested in theology.