Witchcraft

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Good day to you. Have any of you read Richard Baxter's book "The Certainty of the World of Spirits."?

Two things. The first is that witchcraft is nothing to take lightly. In our culture it has become something that is almost seen as harmless, and a neat hobby. Reading through this book and the documented accounts really helped me see how terrible and horrific the results of such practices are. I mean, what happened to people when they were under the attack of witches was absolutely sickening.

The other thing is more of a question. Why don't you think we see in our present day the effects that were seen in the 1600s? People would throw up nails, objects, hundreds of gallons of blood over time, speak in hebrew, greek, and latin, when they did not know the languages, and all sorts of other seemingly supernatural horrible things. And the people that documented this stuff would save the objects that would come out of the bodies of those people that were under the attack of witchcraft. Do you think Satan just operates in a different way because we are in different times?

Here is one of many examples.
"VII. Sebastian Brand I.C. wrote to Skenkius, the Narrative of one, that after horrid Tor∣ments, vomited in one Year four hundred Earthen Chamber-pots full of Blood, be∣sides what went by Stool, and fifty times let blood that Year; so that she lost a thou∣sand Pounds of Blood, as this Man (a Coun∣cillor of State) professed he knew by true Report, and his own Eye-sight. And the Blood burst through the Skin, and with it she vomited a thousand and two hundred Worms, some as long as ones Finger, and some longer.

I have elsewhere cited out of Fernelius, the Narrative of such as had the like sym∣ptoms as some of these, and spoke Latin, Greek and Hebrew, which they never learnt."

It's really weird stuff. I was watching a documentary last night, and even shortly after falling asleep I was having really strange dreams.

 

[RamistThomist]

Why don't you think we see in our present day the effects that were seen in the 1600s? People would throw up nails, objects, hundreds of gallons of blood over time, speak in hebrew, greek, and latin, when they did not know the languages, and all sorts of other seemingly supernatural horrible things. And the people that documented this stuff would save the objects that would come out of the bodies of those people that were under the attack of witchcraft. Do you think Satan just operates in a different way because we are in different times?

We are starting to see more of it. The languages are verifiable. I'm not sure about hundreds of gallons of blood. The late Russ Dizdar, a former police chaplain, has many reports on this.

 

[Charles Johnson]

Good day to you. Have any of you read Richard Baxter's book "The Certainty of the World of Spirits."?

Two things. The first is that witchcraft is nothing to take lightly. In our culture it has become something that is almost seen as harmless, and a neat hobby. Reading through this book and the documented accounts really helped me see how terrible and horrific the results of such practices are. I mean, what happened to people when they were under the attack of witches was absolutely sickening.

The other thing is more of a question. Why don't you think we see in our present day the effects that were seen in the 1600s? People would throw up nails, objects, hundreds of gallons of blood over time, speak in hebrew, greek, and latin, when they did not know the languages, and all sorts of other seemingly supernatural horrible things. And the people that documented this stuff would save the objects that would come out of the bodies of those people that were under the attack of witchcraft. Do you think Satan just operates in a different way because we are in different times?

Here is one of many examples.
"VII. Sebastian Brand I.C. wrote to Skenkius, the Narrative of one, that after horrid Tor∣ments, vomited in one Year four hundred Earthen Chamber-pots full of Blood, be∣sides what went by Stool, and fifty times let blood that Year; so that she lost a thou∣sand Pounds of Blood, as this Man (a Coun∣cillor of State) professed he knew by true Report, and his own Eye-sight. And the Blood burst through the Skin, and with it she vomited a thousand and two hundred Worms, some as long as ones Finger, and some longer.

I have elsewhere cited out of Fernelius, the Narrative of such as had the like sym∣ptoms as some of these, and spoke Latin, Greek and Hebrew, which they never learnt."

It's really weird stuff. I was watching a documentary last night, and even shortly after falling asleep I was having really strange dreams.

Most of these people are locked up in asylums and medicated in North America. They exist, they're just kept out of the public eye.
If you go to the local asylum or, for Californians, to skid row, I'm sure you could hear some crazy stories.
Here in South America they just let these people wander free. I was going to eat dinner with my wife the other day and there was a stark naked homeless man walking down the street, and everyone in the car just grumbled "es un loco." In the US you'd get arrested for that but here they just let you wander around. Or if you're a little more coherent you make money as a shaman.

 

[Claudiu]

Most of these people are locked up in asylums and medicated in North America. They exist, they're just kept out of the public eye.
If you go to the local asylum or, for Californians, to skid row, I'm sure you could hear some crazy stories.
Here in South America they just let these people wander free. I was going to eat dinner with my wife the other day and there was a stark naked homeless man walking down the street, and everyone in the car just grumbled "es un loco." In the US you'd get arrested for that but here they just let you wander around. Or if you're a little more coherent you make money as a shaman.

Have you been in the States lately? What you described in SA is everyday activity in most large cities in the U.S.

 

[Charles Johnson]

Have you been in the States lately? What you described in SA is everyday activity in most large cities in the U.S.

I'm from Wisconsin and I can honestly say I've never seen a naked demoniac in public. You'd be arrested within minutes and at the very least put on a 72 hour psychiatric hold, if not committed indefinitely. I know some states have a major problem with homeless encampments and what not but it's not really an issue in Wisconsin because the police still arrest drug users and what not and one isn't allowed to camp in parks, on sidewalks, etc. I'm not sure what's going on on the west coast that they can't manage simple things like that.

 

[RamistThomist]

I'm from Wisconsin and I can honestly say I've never seen a naked demoniac in public. You'd be arrested within minutes and at the very least put on a 72 hour psychiatric hold, if not committed indefinitely. I know some states have a major problem with homeless encampments and what not but it's not really an issue in Wisconsin because the police still arrest drug users and what not and one isn't allowed to camp in parks, on sidewalks, etc. I'm not sure what's going on on the west coast that they can't manage simple things like that.

I think it is more of a thing in larger Democrat cities on the coast.

 

[MyCrows]

I think it is more of a thing in larger Democrat cities on the coast.

Just check the sidewalks before taking a step and the doorknobs before grabbing.

 

[davejonescue]

I may be the odd one out, but I see most of present music as a form of witchcraft, and the lyrics as the spells. There have been well documented cases of Satanism within the entertainment industry; especially the prevalence of the "all seeing eye" in many movies and music videos. Think about it. A person comes out with a song, and people will listen to it 100's if not 1000's of times; basically hypnotizing them into certain ideologies and practices. Pair this that much of popular music also pushes a mixture of listening and intoxication; whether alcohol or narcotics. Do we really have to look far to see the effects of generations "entranced" by these demonic mantras? It isnt just rap. I have listened to oldies, but had to stop because much of it is about fornication and adultery. Country; drunkenness, fornication, adultery, rebellion. Pop; fornication, adultery, rebellion, drug-use, lying, cheating, homosexuality, and the list could go on. Rock, Classic Rock, Punk, Metal, etc. are no better. There are Christian alternatives to these things; and I am under the persuasion that it isnt the melody, but the chant that is influential. But I see these secular expressions as being the biggest, most accepted, most enchanting tool for ongoing witchcraft and deception in existence.

TV and Movies would be next.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

I don't know about the physical manifestations such as copious amounts of blood, nails, etc, but as Charles mentioned above, possessed folks would be institutionalized and held with chemical restraints very quickly. This possession can happen simply with the powerful new grass and derivatives around today, and the increasing decriminalization of other psychedelics, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, LSD, mescaline etc all also opening the users to the spirit world, as shamans, adepts, and occultists of various sorts already know.

But there is a deeper and greater demonic thing happening in these days. Some you may already know my view of the massive incursion of the demonic realm into the human collective consciousness starting back in the 1960s counterculture / Woodstock generation through the use of the aforementioned sorcerous agents, and exported into the nations of the world via the attractive "Woodstock spirit" package / Trojan Horse from Hell.

These sixty-some years later what we are seeing in the U.S. as an organic spiritual phenomenon, is a culture increasingly filled with demonic presence and influence. Vile perversions, madness, lack of impulse-control resulting in not only common violence by shooting and stabbing, but suicides, as well the deterioration of sanity in government, academia, the legal profession, medicine, corporations all capitulating to the "strong delusion" (2 Thess 2:11) of the new woke enlightened immorality.

What we are seeing – primarily here in the U.S. – is a society inundated by demonic spirit(s), although the rest of the West is not far behind. Speaking of the West:

America is the quintessence of “The West”, its spirit and exemplar, asserting itself as a defender of freedom and modern enlightenment, yet – as the emperor without clothes – naked and barren of any nobility at all. And worse.

The Lord, through His apostle John, deftly put His finger on exactly what the West is through the deep, moving (growing) symbolic image of Babylon of the end. Before our eyes we are seeing it morphing from its old idealized shape into a monstrous seducing whore riding a beast government apparatus armed and violent, with a taste for the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus (Revelation 17:6).

Focusing more precisely on the “West” – I assert it has been seen and chronicled in the Apocalypse of John (the Book of Revelation), under the term Babylon of the end-times, and in John’s vision even the morphing of this entity from an apparently benign thing (our early more noble image) to an inhumane and killing thing.

In my own understanding – and many others in what is called the “Amillennial” school of Biblical interpretation – Babylon is the world system (cultures, politics, philosophies) in opposition to God and to His people, and, in the Apocalypse it has a headquarters nation (even as it did in its ancient Chaldean and its Roman manifestations).

I argue that Babylon headquarters of our end-times is America: see here:

The Fate of Babylon.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

And there is coming one, also spoken of in 2 Thess 2:1-12, who will arise within the spiritual house of the West – a false / counterfeit professing church within it – and embody its evil values and loves, to the delight of the deluded masses of the unregenerate who have been groomed to hate the Christ of the Bible, His people, His moral Law, and will turn on them in the massive campaign to rid the earth of them globally, called in Revelation, Armageddon.

Scattered incidents of demonic possession a minor thing – collateral damage of the big incursion – in light of the great society of Satan to come.

 

[No Other Name]

I am unaware as to the historicity of Baxter's (and other's) encounters with witches. I remember how stern my English lit teachers were that it was all as imaginary as planted communist sleeper agents for Russia were in the 50's.

Seeing as they were as wrong about the sleeper agents as anyone can be wrong about anything, I for one am not just going to take their word for it.

Is it possible that Satan and his forces changed tactics in the secular culture of today? Perhaps more seductive today vs. being more violent and fear-inducing back in the 16th Century and earlier? Is there anyone who has done studies on this?

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Is it possible that Satan and his forces changed tactics in the secular culture of today? Perhaps more seductive today vs. being more violent and fear-inducing back in the 16th Century and earlier? Is there anyone who has done studies on this?

My same thought. And I've noticed that most of the secular modern research blame-shifts and doesn't like to address the reality of how hateful, destructive, and awful witches were. It's mostly focused on convictions with anecdotal evidence, the superstitious witch tests, etc. Yeah, the non-witches failed in certain ways, but what a witch is and does really needs to be brought to light. They were basically trying to murder their neighbors, but in a hands-off way.

 

[jwithnell]

If you've ever traveled in less developed regions you'd have been warned against all kinds of weird critters that can invade you. The traditional medical symbol depicts how doctors would slowly twist a worm on a rod to pull it out of someone's skin. The parasite behind one kind of dysentery can infest the brain. The worms, blood, vomiting, odd behavior etc. could be explained.

The scriptures clearly teach the presence of evil beings and warns us against them or practices related to them. So I'd never discount the possibility of these stories. But I could easily see how people might search for a spiritual manifestation in something that has a physical explanation. The opening of global trade would have brought western Europeans into contact with previously unknown infestations.

 

[ZackF]

It is frightening to look at. Seen folks in downtown Wichita doing fentanyl twitching and other convulsive movements. So sad. They are not violent but seriously lost and out of it though.

 

[Northern Crofter]

I don't know about the physical manifestations such as copious amounts of blood, nails, etc, but as Charles mentioned above, possessed folks would be institutionalized and held with chemical restraints very quickly. This possession can happen simply with the powerful new grass and derivatives around today, and the increasing decriminalization of other psychedelics, psilocybin mushrooms, peyote, LSD, mescaline etc all also opening the users to the spirit world, as shamans, adepts, and occultists of various sorts already know.

But there is a deeper and greater demonic thing happening in these days. Some you may already know my view of the massive incursion of the demonic realm into the human collective consciousness starting back in the 1960s counterculture / Woodstock generation through the use of the aforementioned sorcerous agents, and exported into the nations of the world via the attractive "Woodstock spirit" package / Trojan Horse from Hell.

These sixty-some years later what we are seeing in the U.S. as an organic spiritual phenomenon, is a culture increasingly filled with demonic presence and influence. Vile perversions, madness, lack of impulse-control resulting in not only common violence by shooting and stabbing, but suicides, as well the deterioration of sanity in government, academia, the legal profession, medicine, corporations all capitulating to the "strong delusion" (2 Thess 2:11) of the new woke enlightened immorality.

What we are seeing – primarily here in the U.S. – is a society inundated by demonic spirit(s), although the rest of the West is not far behind. Speaking of the West:

America is the quintessence of “The West”, its spirit and exemplar, asserting itself as a defender of freedom and modern enlightenment, yet – as the emperor without clothes – naked and barren of any nobility at all. And worse.

The Lord, through His apostle John, deftly put His finger on exactly what the West is through the deep, moving (growing) symbolic image of Babylon of the end. Before our eyes we are seeing it morphing from its old idealized shape into a monstrous seducing whore riding a beast government apparatus armed and violent, with a taste for the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus (Revelation 17:6).

Focusing more precisely on the “West” – I assert it has been seen and chronicled in the Apocalypse of John (the Book of Revelation), under the term Babylon of the end-times, and in John’s vision even the morphing of this entity from an apparently benign thing (our early more noble image) to an inhumane and killing thing.

In my own understanding – and many others in what is called the “Amillennial” school of Biblical interpretation – Babylon is the world system (cultures, politics, philosophies) in opposition to God and to His people, and, in the Apocalypse it has a headquarters nation (even as it did in its ancient Chaldean and its Roman manifestations).

I argue that Babylon headquarters of our end-times is America: see here:

The Fate of Babylon.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

And there is coming one, also spoken of in 2 Thess 2:1-12, who will arise within the spiritual house of the West – a false / counterfeit professing church within it – and embody its evil values and loves, to the delight of the deluded masses of the unregenerate who have been groomed to hate the Christ of the Bible, His people, His moral Law, and will turn on them in the massive campaign to rid the earth of them globally, called in Revelation, Armageddon.

Scattered incidents of demonic possession a minor thing – collateral damage of the big incursion – in light of the great society of Satan to come.

I'm always cautious of statements like yours (on p.16 of what you attached): "There is only one Babylon as far as we are concerned, now in the 21st
century, the final and über Babylon, of which the Chaldean and Roman empires were previous and lesser – what are called typical – manifestations..." which you then "ID" on the following page (and p.23) as "the American Empire." This was once said of the Soviet Union using many of the same criteria on pp.17-18. Much of the same could possibly be said about present-day China.

I am as critical of the US as most any other person I know, but I would caution against proclaiming that the US (or any other nation for that matter) is "Revelation’s 'Babylon,'" especially when some of the proofs "ID’ing Revelation’s ‘Babylon’ as the American Empire" (such as Roe v. Wade) are now outdated/no longer valid (I'm not saying Dobbs v. Jackson is proof the US is experiencing national repentance, but it does not fit the narrative that the US is beyond redemption and its fate of destruction by nuclear holocaust has been irreversibly set in motion as pp.19 and following portray).

 

[RamistThomist]

Seeing as they were as wrong about the sleeper agents

I am fairly certain that was real. And they are among us today.

 

[Northern Crofter]

I am fairly certain that was real. And they are among us today.

I think that is what Anti-Babylon was saying, too - his teachers scoffed at the idea but they (the teachers) were wrong.

 

[MyCrows]

I think that is what Anti-Babylon was saying, too - his teachers scoffed at the idea but they (the teachers) were wrong.

Maybe it was disinformation because his teachers were the sleeper agents...

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Hello Andrew @Northern Crofter ,

How then would you identify the Babylon spoken of in Revelation 17 and 18? And what would its destruction spoken of in Rev 17 look like, and who would be the 10 kings and the beast that would do the destroying?

And in the close-up of Rev 18:7,8,9,10, what do you make of that destruction?

I do appreciate that you read the paper!

 

[Northern Crofter]

How then would you identify the Babylon spoken of in Revelation 17 and 18?

I believe, as my confessional states, that it is the Papacy.

And what would its destruction spoken of in Rev 17 look like, and who would be the 10 kings and the beast that would do the destroying?

My post-millennial hope is that we are seeing this unfold in our generation with the rise of a Jesuit to the head of the Roman synagogue of Satan. I agree with your statement (p.18) that the number 10 in apocalyptical texts is "a symbolic number for a full or complete amount," so the "10 kings" could refer to several possible entities of power. I do not believe their identity will be fully known and comprehended until it occurs.

And in the close-up of Rev 18:7,8,9,10, what do you make of that destruction?

Like the many references to hell, we are given imagery to convey the horror and finality, but this imagery is not necessarily a complete, literal description (the end of Luke 16, for example). I believe Revelation 18 is similar - it conveys the horror and completeness of the destruction, but it will not be fully known and comprehended until it occurs. Therefore, I am wary of spending time trying to further predict what exactly will happen and how.

I know from past interactions that you are strongly amil. And I am not. Trying to convince one another on this thread would probably lead far from the OP, but I always appreciate the graciousness with which you deal with those who do not agree with your beliefs.

 

[No Other Name]

I think that is what Anti-Babylon was saying, too - his teachers scoffed at the idea but they (the teachers) were wrong.

This is indeed what I was saying. And Jacob is right: they are still among us today.

VENONA not only revealed the Rosenbergs as spies but that there were many others when it was finally de-classified in 1995. It is still hard to find clear details by Google to this day. I could not recommend highly enough Blacklisted by History: The Untold Story of Sen. Joseph McCarthy by M. Stanton Evans. The man was no saint but he was no hysterical schoolgirl gaslighting adults with imaginary phantoms.

Woke teachers pushing Arthur Miller's Crucible in their curriculum are unaware - and outright hostile when it is brought up (in my own personal experience). They strangely seem to need McCarthy to remain synonymous with irrational "witch-hunting".

 

[RamistThomist]

Woke teachers pushing Arthur Miller's Crucible in their curriculum are unaware - and outright hostile when it is brought up (in my own personal experience).

I hate that book with all my heart. I wanted every single character in that play to die.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

There is such a thing as missing the forest for the trees. And the (relative) calm before the storm.

 

[MyCrows]

Just thought this was interesting timing. Was digging my septic up the past two weeks, and on two occasions was told I needed to find a "water witch" to find my lines.

Today's sermon included the verses from Deuteronomy 18:9-22.

 

[John The Baptist]

Just thought this was interesting timing. Was digging my septic up the past two weeks, and on two occasions was told I needed to find a "water witch" to find my lines.

Today's sermon included the verses from Deuteronomy 18:9-22.

Yeah, a poorly named way to use electromagnetics to your advantage

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

I happened to see a news article headline, that said a man caught on camera on his property, two witches, naked, feasting on a dead deer carcass. Quite strange...

 

[MyCrows]

I happened to see a news article headline, that said a man caught on camera on his property, two witches, naked, feasting on a dead deer carcass. Quite strange...

Showed up on my feed too. Wondering if it was the naked part or the witch part that got it enough attention to make headlines.

 

[MyCrows]

Yeah, a poorly named way to use electromagnetics to your advantage

Yea, I'm not necessarily convinced one way or the other on how it works, but I opted away from it.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

Showed up on my feed too. Wondering if it was the naked part or the witch part that got it enough attention to make headlines.

LOL, or maybe eating the deer carcass. Haha it's a trifecta of absurdity.

 

[MyCrows]

LOL, or maybe eating the deer carcass. Haha it's a trifecta of absurdity.

Well, it was Texas I think so I don't know what they eat down there.

Edit: Sorry it was actually Canada I don't know why I thought Texas.

 

[VictorBravo]

I happened to see a news article headline, that said a man caught on camera on his property, two witches, naked, feasting on a dead deer carcass. Quite strange...

Strange indeed, but I wonder how he knew they were witches.

I’ll confess I’ve eaten deer “carcasses” in the middle of the night naked. Not proud of the fact, but when 2am hunger hits, some fried-up deer finger steaks does wonders with beans. At least I kept the blinds closed.