What think ye? (Dave Wilkerson's new prophecy)

[Scott1]

timmopussycat
Wilkerson is certainly not one of the more credible charismatic leaders even though he has done much good. By the standards of the NT he is a false prophet.

It seems Mr. Wilkerson would be acknowledged as one of the leading charismatic/pentecostal leaders. His influence has been large, some of it has been good.

As for the good, he has clearly challenged some of the "prosperity" gospel teachings of the "Word of Faith" movement, and he has done so from the standpoint of arguing Scripture.

As for influence, some people may not know the many charismatic/pentecostal influenced organizations he has had a part in founding or building. (Again, I would acknowledge God has done some good through him, not least of which being part of a real renaissance of the Times Square area of New York). I only wish to make a point here that, by rights, he ought be taken as one of the most influential in their communions.

Consider this brief history from wikipedia:

In the early 1960s David Wilkerson, his wife Gwen, Loren and Darlene Cunningham, and Howard and Pat Foltz, prayed together in Colorado. Their prayer birthed 3 ministries: Teen Challenge USA (Wilkerson's), YWAM (Cunningham's), and Teen Challenge Europe-Asia (Foltz's), which have reached youth and adults, many with life-controlling problems worldwide, through its centers and ministry. Teen Challenge's USA and Europe-Asia ministry is a biblically based recovery program for drug addicts that has been recognized as one of the most effective efforts of its kind [1].

In 1967, David Wilkerson began Youth Crusades, an evangelistic ministry that was aimed to reach teenagers whom David Wilkerson called "goodniks" — middle-class youth who were restless and bored. His goal was to prevent them from becoming heavily involved with drugs, alcohol, or violence. Through this ministry, CURE Corps (Collegiate Urban Renewal Effort) was founded. It was intended to be something of a Christian version of the Peace Corps and VISTA.

So, the Reverend has been quite influential in groups like YWAM, Teen Challenge, CURE, even before his well-known work at Times Square Church.

The difficulty many have is not only the fact that extra-biblical pronouncements are taken as equal of Scripture, but that there does not seem to be a mechanism for self-examination from the standpoint of Scripture, or for repentance within the charismatic/pentecostal communions that so readily accept them.

There often seems to be no way sought to address the harm to the peace and purity caused the church, and the fallout of many hurt and disaffected people who over time, drop out of visible church communion.

 

[historyb]

This is my take on this and I hope I don't get in trouble for this here. I read pastor Wilkerson's blog post and while many here are quick to jump on the band wagon against anything goes against what they think things should be like I see it differently.

I don't see it as a prophecy per say but as a warning, which as someone said here does not take a rocket scientist to see it. I think the biggest problem in pentecostal/charismatic circles is that some people see things going on and formulate an idea, thought and instead of realizing that they came up with the thought they say the HS told them. I remember from my time in Pentecostalism this type of thing was big, though sometimes it was evident people thought that themselves. These are my thoughts

 

[gene_mingo]

I will start with two from this false prophet:


He preached this in the Solomon Church in December of 1994:
"Right now I sense in my spirit that in less than 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin."

From a prophecy of September 7, 1992:
"I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced race riots will soon explode! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. Next year, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere."

I don't see it as a prophecy per say but as a warning

OT prophets gave many warnings from God.

 

[historyb]

I think the reformed here make to much out of this, In my humble opinion that's all

 

[Poimen]

My favorite part about modern prophecies is that they focus on what will happen to America, sometimes even to the exclusion of every other nation in the world. Judah (US) gets the voice of God and Israel (Canada + pretty much everyone else) gets virtual silence from heaven. Curious.

 

[Scott1]

This is my take on this and I hope I don't get in trouble for this here. I read pastor Wilkerson's blog post and while many here are quick to jump on the band wagon against anything goes against what they think things should be like I see it differently.

I don't see it as a prophecy per say but as a warning, which as someone said here does not take a rocket scientist to see it. I think the biggest problem in pentecostal/charismatic circles is that some people see things going on and formulate an idea, thought and instead of realizing that they came up with the thought they say the HS told them. I remember from my time in Pentecostalism this type of thing was big, though sometimes it was evident people thought that themselves. These are my thoughts

It's always difficult to pick out facts and clarity in accounts like this. That's part of the problem with believing in extra-biblical revelation and basing one's belief on it.

The Reverend said he had a "prophetic vision" and wrote a book in 1973 called "The Vision" based on it. From the summaries, it was quite specific except not specific about time.

The point is this man is known for this. Whether He is claiming a spiritual gift is a prophecy or, as it is being quoted in the press, "an urgent message...compelled by the Holy Spirit," it illustrates the problems following such or this man's pronouncements in particular as a basis of our faith. That is the real issue.

 

[Herald]

This is my take on this and I hope I don't get in trouble for this here. I read pastor Wilkerson's blog post and while many here are quick to jump on the band wagon against anything goes against what they think things should be like I see it differently.

I don't see it as a prophecy per say but as a warning, which as someone said here does not take a rocket scientist to see it. I think the biggest problem in pentecostal/charismatic circles is that some people see things going on and formulate an idea, thought and instead of realizing that they came up with the thought they say the HS told them. I remember from my time in Pentecostalism this type of thing was big, though sometimes it was evident people thought that themselves. These are my thoughts

Doug, that does happen. I was in the Assembly of God movement during my early Christian years and heard people make pronouncements that were supposed to be a word of knowledge. In actuality it was their own convictions and opinions cloaked in the supposed authorship of the Holy Spirit. But therein lies the problem and the deception. To attribute something to the Holy Spirit that is not true is a lie. It's not just a minor error. It's serious business. When I preach the only time I will ever dare say "thus sayeth the Lord" is when I am quoting the Word of God verbatim. Anything beyond that is dangerous ground.