What Liquid Do You Use in the Lord's Supper?

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Split-off from the Intinction Thread...

Curious as to what liquid (Wine, Grape Juice, Both, Neither) is used at the congregation you worship with/hold membership.

 

[E Nomine]

My church uses grape juice which I understand is an exception to the WCF. I believe wine is the appropriate element, but I submit to my session.

 

[Peairtach]

Port wine

Port wine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rufus]

Grape juice.

 

[AThornquist]

Non-fermented fruit of the vine.

 

[Andres]

Wow. I'm pretty surprised at the lack of wine used. I realize that not everyone will know the answer, but for those who use juice, what's the reasoning?

 

[KMK]

Non-fermented fruit of the vine.

By this do you mean nonalcoholic wine?

 

[AThornquist]

Non-fermented fruit of the vine.

By this do you mean nonalcoholic wine?

I grew up in wine country (Nor Cal) and yet didn't know there was such a thing until you mentioned it. After looking it up, no, that's not what I mean. I was just referring to grape juice.

 

[JP Wallace]

We use a non-alcoholic wine thing....except when we have run out when we have used the proper stuff! Tip: never water down wine, it seems to make it smell stronger

 

[nwink]

I believe wine is the appropriate element, but my church uses grape juice.

 

[Tim]

I am in the same situation as Nathan.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I partake of whatever is placed before me. I am not concerned about the fermentation as much as I am in fear of the consequences of partaking in an unworthy manner.

 

[Loopie]

My church offers grape juice, but I would prefer it if they offered both. A friend of mine who struggles with alcoholism says that he will not partake of wine, but only grape juice. I respect his desire never to touch a drop of alcohol again.

On a more personal note, my grandmother is a strict anti-alcohol person. She used to tell me that Jesus only used wine because the water was very impure and unhealthy during that time. People drank wine because it was the least likely to make them sick. After doing a bit more research about the culture, I have come to strongly disagree with her. Obviously they did not have efficient water purification back in those days, but to suggest that no one ever drank water is silly (because they wouldn't survive long without it).

With that in mind, what are your thoughts on the reasoning behind churches not offering both wine and grape juice? Is it because there may be some people in the congregation struggling with alcoholism?

 

[sastark]

We use both wine and grape juice. Not my preference (I believe it is proper to use wine only), but I have not yet chosen to discuss it with the rest of the Session.

 

[py3ak]

Obviously they did not have efficient water purification back in those days, but to suggest that no one ever drank water is silly (because they wouldn't survive long without it).

Well, the incident of David's men sneaking through Saul's army to get him water from the well of Bethlehem would suggest that David was enough of a water-drinker to miss the waters of home.

 

[sastark]

Obviously they did not have efficient water purification back in those days, but to suggest that no one ever drank water is silly (because they wouldn't survive long without it).

Well, the incident of David's men sneaking through Saul's army to get him water from the well of Bethlehem would suggest that David was enough of a water-drinker to miss the waters of home.

Our Lord's interaction with the woman at the well in John 4 comes to mind, as well.

 

[Scottish Lass]

We use juice, but I wish we used wine.

 

[Jeff Burns]

We used to use both and made it plain which was which, but it caused quite the stir at one point and eventually we decided it was better to no cause any distractions (especially being baptists in the south), so we only offer grape juice now.

 

[Rich Koster]

We use juice, but I wish we used wine.

Ditto.

 

[he beholds]

Our church uses both. I take wine. My husband will sometimes take grape juice if he's dealing with really bad heartburn. I take the wine even when pregnant.

 

[Somerset]

Port wine

Port wine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any particular reason for port? Good port is strong and expensive, cheap port is strong and, to my mind, pretty foul. Why not a plain red wine, like Joshua (though I have trouble deciding whether his tongue is sometimes in his cheek).

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

Just a warning for those dogmatic about using fermented wine. Jeremiah 35.

 

[sastark]

Just a warning for those dogmatic about using fermented wine. Jeremiah 35.

The Rechabites could either abstain from the Lord's Table, or they could obey God rather than man, even if that man was their father.

 

[3John2]

We use both at our church. Seems to work great.

 

[John Bunyan]

I've actually never seen real wine being served during communion in a non-catholic church

 

[E Nomine]

Here is a quote from Rev. Brian Abshire

Some people wonder if this is really necessary. Does it really matter if we use grape juice as a symbol of real wine? R.C. Sproul said it best. He said, if it’s only a symbol, then why not use peanut butter and jelly? God Himself declared what symbols we are to use. The Westminster Confession of Faith, the doctrinal standards of Presbyterian Churches requires wine; hence all PCA and OPC elders are oath bound to serve wine in the Lord’s Supper. God did not choose grape juice to represent His precious Son’s blood, but rather wine. He superintended creation so that sugar would ferment into alcohol, to symbolize the effects of His Holy Spirit leavening and working His will in our life. Let us not allow the wickedness of others, who abuse His good gifts, to steal from us, the imagery God Himself has provided. Let us approach His table with humility, and reverence and obedience.

How do the strictest Confessional/RPW churches justify juice? I can't think of anything more elemental and less circumstantial than the sacraments.

 

[Romans922]

Going off of what SW shows in that quote, what is the biblical theology show to us in the Lord's Supper through the use of:

1) Bread
2) Wine
3) What does wine show forth that grape juice doesn't or can't?

 

[Peairtach]

Port wine

Port wine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Any particular reason for port? Good port is strong and expensive, cheap port is strong and, to my mind, pretty foul. Why not a plain red wine, like Joshua (though I have trouble deciding whether his tongue is sometimes in his cheek).

I don't know. It's what I've known in Presbyterian churches in Scotland. Look up references to "sweet" in Scripture. Christ's blood is precious and "sweet" to the spiritual taste of the believer.

"Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the plowman shall overtake the reaper and the treader of grapes him who sows the seed; the mountains shall drip sweet wine, and all the hills shall flow with it. (Amos 9:13, ESV)

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

That is a great quote SW.

 

[Andres]

Here is a quote from Rev. Brian Abshire

Some people wonder if this is really necessary. Does it really matter if we use grape juice as a symbol of real wine? R.C. Sproul said it best. He said, if it’s only a symbol, then why not use peanut butter and jelly? God Himself declared what symbols we are to use. The Westminster Confession of Faith, the doctrinal standards of Presbyterian Churches requires wine; hence all PCA and OPC elders are oath bound to serve wine in the Lord’s Supper. God did not choose grape juice to represent His precious Son’s blood, but rather wine. He superintended creation so that sugar would ferment into alcohol, to symbolize the effects of His Holy Spirit leavening and working His will in our life. Let us not allow the wickedness of others, who abuse His good gifts, to steal from us, the imagery God Himself has provided. Let us approach His table with humility, and reverence and obedience.

How do the strictest Confessional/RPW churches justify juice? I can't think of anything more elemental and less circumstantial than the sacraments.

Just as another thread mentioned the singing of hymns to be considered an exception to the WCF 21, do those who substitute juice consider/mention it as an exception to WCF 29?