What is the recent lure of Eastern Orthodoxy?

[TylerRay]

Tyler, I never said that visual representations or incense were not elements of worship. I took occasion from someone speaking about aesthetic attraction to worship to comment on the broader phenomenon, because the inevitable aesthetics of our worship are, of course, circumstantial.

My mistake. I thought you were lumping them up under circumstances. My apologies, brother.

 

[gordo]

Also, I am suspicious of any sect which requires of its members to adopt a certain culture as well. That is the great error of Islam; to be a good Muslim, one must more and more become more like an Arab.

In my experience there was never any requirement to adopt any culture. I went to a Ukrainian Orthodox congregation and when the priest saw non-Ukrainians at the service he would incorporate more English into the liturgy, etc. The prayer books were also in English and Ukrainian. Everyone spoke English. I also wonder about using 'sect' for the EO church. No matter your thoughts on them, the EO church was around long before the Reformation. That is of course if you are using sect as splinter or break off of a larger body.

 

[yeutter]

The thread now seems to be veering off into church architecture.

Serving in a very poor country, I often wonder if EO could ever gain a foothold in these areas that cannot afford elaborate buildings, robes, icons, etc.

Eastern Orthodoxy gained a foothold among pagan aboriginal Alaskans. The Russian Orthodox had missions to Aleuts, Inuit, Ypik, and Athabascan Indians. Many of these were pulled out when the Russians sold Alaska to the States. The Russian monks made tremendous strides in Bible translation during their labors with these peoples in very primitive conditions. Often, especially in the areas bordering the Yukon, Anglicans built on the foundation laid by our Russian brothers.

 

[yeutter]

The formal denial of justification by faith alone and salvation by grace has not occurred in Eastern Orthodoxy. Sovereign Grace and justification by faith may not be consistently preached in Eastern Orthodox Churches but it is not formally denied either. Rome at Trent denied the truth of the Gospel.

 

[Pergamum]

The thread now seems to be veering off into church architecture.

Serving in a very poor country, I often wonder if EO could ever gain a foothold in these areas that cannot afford elaborate buildings, robes, icons, etc.

Eastern Orthodoxy gained a foothold among pagan aboriginal Alaskans. The Russian Orthodox had missions to Aleuts, Inuit, Ypik, and Athabascan Indians. Many of these were pulled out when the Russians sold Alaska to the States. The Russian monks made tremendous strides in Bible translation during their labors with these peoples in very primitive conditions. Often, especially in the areas bordering the Yukon, Anglicans built on the foundation laid by our Russian brothers.

Wow, looks like I am goign to be googling some Alaskan history tonight! Thanks.

 

[Pergamum]

The formal denial of justification by faith alone and salvation by grace has not occurred in Eastern Orthodoxy. Sovereign Grace and justification by faith may not be consistently preached in Eastern Orthodox Churches but it is not formally denied either. Rome at Trent denied the truth of the Gospel.

Interesting. Thanks for the thought.

 

[py3ak]

The formal denial of justification by faith alone and salvation by grace has not occurred in Eastern Orthodoxy. Sovereign Grace and justification by faith may not be consistently preached in Eastern Orthodox Churches but it is not formally denied either. Rome at Trent denied the truth of the Gospel.

Thomas, I think it is an understatement to say "it is not consistently preached". I'd be interested to hear of any evidence that it's preached at all. But leaving that aside, converting to EO often requires the renunciation of errors: on the basis of the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672, that can include a specific renunciation of Calvinism. From the Service of the Reception of Converts:

The Bishop questioneth the convert from the Reformed Confession after this wise:

Dost thou renounce the false doctrine that, for the expression of the dogma touching the Procession of the Holy Spirit, the declaration of our Saviour Christ himself: "who proceedeth from the Father": doth not suffice; and that the addition, of man's invention: "and from the Son": is required?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the false doctrine, that the predestination of men to their salvation, or their rejection, is not in accordance with the Divine foreknowledge of the faith and good works of the former, or of the unbelief and evil deeds of the latter; but in accordance with some arbitrary destiny, by reason of which faith and virtue are robbed of their merit, and God is held accountable for the perdition of sinners?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist the bread and wine are not transmuted into the Body and Blood of Christ, and are merely emblems of the Body and Blood of Christ?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of the Reformed teachers, who reject five Sacraments: Chrismation, Confession, Marriage, Anointing with Oil, and the Priesthood itself, which administereth the other Sacraments, and presume to administer Baptism and the Eucharist, never having received, through the laying-on of hands by a Bishop, that Ordination which hath been transmitted from one to another, even from the holy Apostles?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of the Reformed teachers who receive not the traditions of the Holy Church, reverence not the Saints, and deprive the dead of spiritual aid, and the living of consolation, in that they reject prayers for the dead?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Hast thou renounced all ancient and modern heresies and false doctrines which are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Orthodox Catholic Eastern Church?

Answer. I have.

If you have to renounce these things to convert, conversion cannot be good for your soul. Perkins admins that there may be error in a fundamental point through weakness that does not conclude against salvation; but when that error is made through obstinacy, the outlook is more grim.

 

[arapahoepark]

The formal denial of justification by faith alone and salvation by grace has not occurred in Eastern Orthodoxy. Sovereign Grace and justification by faith may not be consistently preached in Eastern Orthodox Churches but it is not formally denied either. Rome at Trent denied the truth of the Gospel.

Thomas, I think it is an understatement to say "it is not consistently preached". I'd be interested to hear of any evidence that it's preached at all. But leaving that aside, converting to EO often requires the renunciation of errors: on the basis of the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672, that can include a specific renunciation of Calvinism. From the Service of the Reception of Converts:

The Bishop questioneth the convert from the Reformed Confession after this wise:

Dost thou renounce the false doctrine that, for the expression of the dogma touching the Procession of the Holy Spirit, the declaration of our Saviour Christ himself: "who proceedeth from the Father": doth not suffice; and that the addition, of man's invention: "and from the Son": is required?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the false doctrine, that the predestination of men to their salvation, or their rejection, is not in accordance with the Divine foreknowledge of the faith and good works of the former, or of the unbelief and evil deeds of the latter; but in accordance with some arbitrary destiny, by reason of which faith and virtue are robbed of their merit, and God is held accountable for the perdition of sinners?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief that in the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist the bread and wine are not transmuted into the Body and Blood of Christ, and are merely emblems of the Body and Blood of Christ?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of the Reformed teachers, who reject five Sacraments: Chrismation, Confession, Marriage, Anointing with Oil, and the Priesthood itself, which administereth the other Sacraments, and presume to administer Baptism and the Eucharist, never having received, through the laying-on of hands by a Bishop, that Ordination which hath been transmitted from one to another, even from the holy Apostles?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Dost thou renounce the erroneous belief of the Reformed teachers who receive not the traditions of the Holy Church, reverence not the Saints, and deprive the dead of spiritual aid, and the living of consolation, in that they reject prayers for the dead?

Answer. I do.

Bishop. Hast thou renounced all ancient and modern heresies and false doctrines which are contrary to the teachings of the Holy Orthodox Catholic Eastern Church?

Answer. I have.

If you have to renounce these things to convert, conversion cannot be good for your soul. Perkins admins that there may be error in a fundamental point through weakness that does not conclude against salvation; but when that error is made through obstinacy, the outlook is more grim.

Didn't this also occur after Cyril Lucarius was martyred for his beliefs?

 

[PointyHaired Calvinist]

The Jerusalem Synod sought to undo Cyril's Reformed influences, then denied he ever was Reformed. (Historical revisionism is nothing new!)

 

[Pergamum]

Cyril Lucaris - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting history lesson for me today.