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Discussion in 'Federal Vision/New Perspectives' started by jwright82, Jan 18, 2011.
Where are the major Reformed denomenations at with regard to handling FV?
When the FV came out originally I heard someone calling it a "High Covenantalism".
"High" on confusion and downright error.
I like that!
Providentially, the answer appears here just when needed.
I guess my question is more like this, are they still in the main presbyterian denomonations or have they left or what?
I have wondered if they are in the OPC. It seems like you mostly hear about PCA guys. I know of some in the PCA.
Did anything ever happen with Higgens? I don't see how his Presbytery can have complaints going about deaconesses and deacons, and not Higgens. Is it some procedural thing that makes the difference?
How can anybody think that some of the works and fruits proceeding from regeneration and sanctification earn saving merit with God, and pretend to be classical confessional Presbyterian? It is just so dishonest. I wish they would all leave and start their own FV denomination.
I agree. I don't know any specifics about anyone, that is why I started this thread.
A complaint is against the action of a court. There would have to be charges brought forth against an elder for a specific sin. Apparently no one has done that with Higgins. It may be that the tools of discipline are a bit rusty in the PCA.
Check this out from today's Aquila Report:
Complaint Filed by Two Members of PCA Missouri Presbytery against their recent action to exonerate TE Jeffrey Meyers
That's actually pretty common in the PCA. Even in traffic court, if the judge says "I'm going to find you guilty" or "There's no way someone so nice as you could be guilty" before a trial, the judge would get in big trouble. But in several Presbyteries that sort of attitude is the order of the day. One wonders where it comes from.
James, the current state of things is that the reports that have been filed by the various denominations are now being implemented in the courts of the church. There are several cases going on right now. It is up to the denomination to enforce in the courts what it said on the reports. In the PCA, some people seem to have the attitude that the report that passed in 2007 completely eliminated all FV people in the PCA. Unfortunately, that did not happen in any way whatsoever. So now, we are battling it out in the church courts. It's in the courts right now. That's where we are.
Actually, the CREC welcomes all FVers with no waiting. That's where Wilkins ran as formal charges were being written up in the PCA. Lusk and a few others went on his own earlier. There are current processes in the PCA against three FV TEs of which I'm aware (or maybe four depending on what you count as process). The judicial processes work slowly, but so far, they have worked at the final stage. But just like investments, past performance is not a guarantee of future returns.
Ha, I thought I was the only one that used a phrase like that. I usually call it "Hyper Covenantalism".
So we are wittnessing due proccess at its finest. About how many cases are there for the courts to decide?
There are four cases of which I'm aware in various stages. The finding that there was no strong presumption of guilt in the investigation of Jeff Meyers in MO has been complained against and will proceed to review in MO Presbytery. For what it's worth, that case seems to be paralleling the Wilkins case a few years ago in Louisiana. Peter Leithart's trial in NW should happen fairly soon. Siouxlands Presbytery eventually found a strong presumption of guilt for Greg Lawrence so he'll stand trial there. Siouxlands also has some issues with Joshua Moon. Although the SJC gave Moon a pass, it was primarily on a fine procedural point and they wrote that a full BCO 32-2 process (bringing charges) would have been a more appropriate approach. I suspect that will happen in the coming months. Moon makes the fourth case if it indeed comes to pass.
That's all of which I'm aware at the moment. I suspect that sooner or later we'll see one or two other actions as well.