What do you say to someone who says: "I don't have it in my heart to believe in God"?

[Apologia Christou]

So, we being Calvinists, let's imagine a situation where the unbeliever says to you these very words: "Dear Christian, I don't have it in my heart to believe in Christ, nor to repent. How can I be saved? What can I do?"

What would you say to him? What does the Scripture say to this very situation?

 

[Jude24]

I would say they have a better understanding of salvation than many unreformed Christians today.

They're right. They don't have it in their heart to repent or believe. Scriptures make it abundantly clear that nobody seeks after God (Romans 3:10-18 is a good passage to demonstrate this for them). I would emphasize that salvation is not dependent upon a "decision at the altar" or "accepting/believing" in your heart. There's no formula that you have to get right to be saved. God alone saves. Ephesians 2:1-10 would be good to go over with them.

And then, of course, prayer. Only God can save them in the end.

 

[Joshua]

"You're right. You don't have it within you. Place yourself in the way the Lord has appointed for hearts to be changed. Attend upon God's appointed means, refusing the temptation to wait for a zapping. Acknowledge and bewail your inability & unbelief before the Lord in the midst of the very appointed means He has given for belief, namely the preaching of the Gospel in His ordinances of the visible church. Persevere in these. Believe, and bewail your unbelief. In the end, you will reap, if you faint not. God has promised it. Believe His promises, and be found in the stream where He makes those means effectual in His due time, at His good pleasure. Fight, clamor, and stay at that pool of Bethesda, despite everyone beating you to it. Despise and abhor not only your perceived unbelief, but decry your misbelief of God's promises, having misapprehensions and unworthy & wicked thoughts of Him. Despite His promises to save any and all who come to Him by faith, decry your yet apparent persisting in this willful rebellion, then stay running after Him, for as long as it takes. Do not give up. In all this, you may find, that though you don't have the sense of possessing belief or assurance, looking back, there may very well be evidence that you have/had it in actuality. "

 

[MyCrows]

Well, he understands his need, and his lack of ability. That's actually a good thing.

I wouldn't focus so much on what he can't do in conversation as much as I would focus on what Christ can do, and does do, for whoever comes to Him, which is save them to the uttermost.

It's not his job to make God draw him to Christ, but rather to do what he is told to do by Christ, which is come.

I would encourage him with Jesus words in John 6:37...

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."

 

[Apologia Christou]

I would say they have a better understanding of salvation than many unreformed Christians today.

They're right. They don't have it in their heart to repent or believe. Scriptures make it abundantly clear that nobody seeks after God (Romans 3:10-18 is a good passage to demonstrate this for them). I would emphasize that salvation is not dependent upon a "decision at the altar" or "accepting/believing" in your heart. There's no formula that you have to get right to be saved. God alone saves. Ephesians 2:1-10 would be good to go over with them.

And then, of course, prayer. Only God can save them in the end.

Well, he understands his need, and his lack of ability. That's actually a good thing.

I wouldn't focus so much on what he can't do in conversation as much as I would focus on what Christ can do, and does do, for whoever comes to Him, which is save them to the uttermost.

It's not his job to make God draw him to Christ, but rather to do what he is told to do by Christ, which is come.

I would encourage him with Jesus words in John 6:37...

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."

So basically you are saying that he can not do anything?

"Place yourself in the way the Lord has appointed for hearts to be changed. Attend upon God's appointed means, refusing the temptation to wait for a zapping. Acknowledge and bewail your inability & unbelief before the Lord in the midst of the very appointed means He has given for belief, namely the preaching of the Gospel in His ordinances of the visible church. Persevere in these. Believe, and bewail your unbelief. In the end, you will reap, if you faint not. God has promised it. Believe His promises, and be found in the stream where He makes those means effectual in His due time, at His good pleasure. Fight, clamor, and stay at that pool of Bethesda, despite everyone beating you to it. Despise and abhor not only your perceived unbelief, but decry your misbelief of God's promises, having misapprehensions and unworthy & wicked thoughts of Him. Despite His promises to save any and all who come to Him by faith, decry your yet apparent persisting in this willful rebellion, then stay running after Him, for as long as it takes. Do not give up. In all this, you may find, that though you don't have the sense of possessing belief or assurance, looking back, there may very well be evidence that you have/had it in actuality. "

Where is this from?

 

[Joshua]

Where is this from?

My keyboard and often feckless mind.

 

[Joshua]

Read this, this morning from Judges 10. Perhaps timely applicable:

"[The LORD said Y]e have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more. Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation. And the children of Israel said unto the LORD, We have sinned: do thou unto us whatsoever seemeth good unto thee; deliver us only, we pray thee, this day. And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul was grieved for the misery of Israel," Judges 10
------
Does it seem a dark cloud is over you from the Lord? Do you sense a perceived harshness, or hopelessness? Do you "feel" that He would no more hear you? In this passage, He explicitly states that He will no more help them, despite their crying out, and -yet- persist in crying out they do! and they put feet to these cries by casting out their idols, and serving the Lord, despite His explicit declaration that He will no more help them.

So what do we take away from this? Are we to throw up our hands in despair? No, we are to consider ALL of God's promises, and compare Scripture with Scripture, and note that He will in no wise cast out those Who come to Him by faith. Rather, He styles Himself a Father pitiable children, though He may put on a hard face at times. In fact, He will condescend even to the point of permitting language describing Him that would otherwise be scandalous to ascribe to God Who is immutable and without passion ("his soul was grieved")! Weary not, then, in repentance and well-doing, for you will reap in due time, if ye faint not.

 

[Jude24]

So basically you are saying that he can not do anything?



Where is this from?

Not necessarily. It is true that he cannot do anything to save himself, but what he can do is submit to Christ. No amount of his own effort will be able to save him.

Encourage him to search scripture and allow Christ to work in him. It seems like he is trying to figure out the secret formula or mindset that causes salvation. In that sense, it is correct that he cannot do anything. There is nothing he can do but allow Christ to save him. If it is God's will, he will come to the truth and be saved.

 

[MyCrows]

So basically you are saying that he can not do anything?



Where is this from?

There's nothing he can do to generate the faith in and of himself, and no fleshy repentance will do.

They are a gift of God.

So all he can do is seek God's mercy in Christ. Not try to muster up more faith, not try to repent to get to where he needs to be, but to go to the Lord.

 

[Apologia Christou]

What do we do with this, directly concerning salvation, from our Lord:

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Lk 13,24.

What does this mean? Now these are very strong words, "strive" is ἀγωνίζομαι, which is agonizomai, from which we get "to agonize".

 

[MyCrows]

What do we do with this, directly concerning salvation, from our Lord:

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Lk 13,24.

What does this mean? Now these are very strong words, "strive" is ἀγωνίζομαι, which is agonizomai, from which we get "to agonize".

I think part of realizing what to do with this passage is understanding what the strait gate is.

 

[Jude24]

What do we do with this, directly concerning salvation, from our Lord:

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Lk 13,24.

What does this mean?

This passage is related to Matthew 7:21.

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Many people will claim to be Christians and attempt to get into Heaven by their own means. In the end, God elects to salvation. There is nothing we can do to change that. Only God can save sinners. Many will seek to find him, but only God's elect will truly come to know him and be saved.

This does not lead to fatalism and that there is no human responsibility whatsoever, but I think it provides an explanation for these passages.

 

[Taylor]

What does this mean? Now these are very strong words, "strive" is ἀγωνίζομαι, which is agonizomai, from which we get "to agonize".

Be careful of the "root fallacy":

Our word dynamite is etymologically derived from δύναμις (dynamis, power, or even miracle). I do not know how many times I have heard preachers offer some such rendering of Romans 1:16 as this: ‘I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the dynamite of God unto salvation for everyone who believes’—often with a knowing tilt of the head, as if something profound or even esoteric has been uttered. This is not just the old root fallacy revisited. It is worse: it is an appeal to a kind of reverse etymology, the root fallacy compounded by anachronism. Did Paul think of dynamite when he penned this word? And in any case, even to mention dynamite as a kind of analogy is singularly inappropriate. Dynamite blows things up, tears things down, rips out rock, gouges holes, destroys things. The power of God concerning which Paul speaks he often identifies with the power that raised Jesus from the dead (e.g., Eph. 1:18-20); and as it operates in us, its goal is εἰς σωτηρίαν (eis sōtērian, ‘unto salvation,’ Rom. 1:16, KJV), aiming for the wholeness and perfection implicit in the consummation of our salvation. Quite apart from the semantic anachronism, therefore, dynamite appears inadequate as a means of raising Jesus from the dead or as a means of conforming us to the likeness of Christ. Of course, what preachers are trying to do when they talk about dynamite is to give some indication of the greatness of the power involved. Even so, Paul’s measure is not dynamite, but the empty tomb.​

​

—D. A. Carson, Exegetical Fallacies, 2nd ed. (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 1996), 33-34.​

 

[Apologia Christou]

I think part of realizing what to do with this passage is understanding what the strait gate is.

Well, the context is clear, and the somehow similar phrase in Matthew 7:13, that it's the strait gate that leads to life, whereas the other leads to destruction. The disciples just asked him if there are few who are being saved, to which the Lord replied: Strive to enter into the strait gate, because many are they that will seek to enter, and will to be able to. So the "many" do it the wrong way, the easy way, since they are not the ones who strive.

Many people will claim to be Christians and attempt to get into Heaven by their own means.

Yes, no ones denies that. But it's clear that people who are doing it by their own means are doing it the wrong way, which is not the way of striving, because, according to our Lord, striving leads to salvation.

Place yourself in the way the Lord has appointed for hearts to be changed.

I like this phrase, and it reminds me of the Puritan doctrine of Seeking/Preparation, which is what I am hinting at.

Be careful of the "root fallacy":

Sure, and thank you for the laughter, the gospel is the "dynamite of God unto salvation". All I said is that it is a strong word, which it is, according to the BDAG (I am not sure if I am allowed to post this here) and other New Testament usages, for example Col 1:29 and 1 Tim 4:10.

 

[Taylor]

Sure, and thank you for the laughter, the gospel is the "dynamite of God unto salvation". All I said is that it is a strong word, which it is, according to the BDAG (I am not sure if I am allowed to post this here) and other New Testament usages, for example Col 1:29 and 1. Tim 4:10.

I agree it is a strong word, but there is a difference between "striving" and "agonizing."

 

[MyCrows]

Well, the context is clear, and the somehow similar phrase in Matthew 7:13, that it's the strait gate that leads to life, whereas the other leads to destruction. The disciples just asked him if there are few who are being saved, to which the Lord replied: Strive to enter into the strait gate, because many are they that will seek to enter, and will to be able to. So the "many" do it the wrong way, the easy way, since they are not the ones who strive.



Yes, no ones denies that. But it's clear that people who are doing it by their own means are doing it the wrong way, which is not the way of striving, because, according to our Lord, striving leads to salvation.



I like this phrase, and it reminds me of the Puritan doctrine of Seeking/Preparation, which is what I am hinting at.



Sure, and thank you for the laughter, the gospel is the "dynamite of God unto salvation". All I said is that it is a strong word, which it is, according to the BDAG (I am not sure if I am allowed to post this here) and other New Testament usages, for example Col 1:29 and 1 Tim 4:10.

I don't necessarily think it's their lack of striving always, but their lack of entering through the narrow gate.

Many people strive their whole life for salvation, and it's not their lack of striving that condemns them, but their lack to coming into the kingdom through Christ, who is the strait gate.

To strive to enter in through Christ alone, is to abandon striving to enter it by yourself.

 

[Joshua]

To be clear, I am not promoting preparationism. I am a marrow man a la Thomas Boston’s comments on Fisher’s work, as well as his own sentiments in vol 8 of his works, particularly. What I am asserting is being found where the Gospel is preached, not trusting in means, but making use of them, and ridding oneself of every vestige of hope in sense, creature, man, and trusting only in the proper Object of faith, the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[Jude24]

Well, the context is clear, and the somehow similar phrase in Matthew 7:13, that it's the strait gate that leads to life, whereas the other leads to destruction. The disciples just asked him if there are few who are being saved, to which the Lord replied: Strive to enter into the strait gate, because many are they that will seek to enter, and will to be able to. So the "many" do it the wrong way, the easy way, since they are not the ones who strive.



Yes, no ones denies that. But it's clear that people who are doing it by their own means are doing it the wrong way, which is not the way of striving, because, according to our Lord, striving leads to salvation.



I like this phrase, and it reminds me of the Puritan doctrine of Seeking/Preparation, which is what I am hinting at.



Sure, and thank you for the laughter, the gospel is the "dynamite of God unto salvation". All I said is that it is a strong word, which it is, according to the BDAG (I am not sure if I am allowed to post this here) and other New Testament usages, for example Col 1:29 and 1 Tim 4:10.

"Yes, no ones denies that. But it's clear that people who are doing it by their own means are doing it the wrong way, which is not the way of striving, because, according to our Lord, striving leads to salvation."

This statement is concerning. Unless I am mistaken, it sounds like you might be promoting a works-based or a "striving"-based salvation.

Compare this to Romans 9:16. Our salvation has nothing to do with our striving or exertion. It is solely of the will and mercy of God.

I apologize if I have misread your comment, but I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page that salvation is of God alone and not dependent on our actions.

 

[Apologia Christou]

I don't necessarily think it's their lack of striving always, but their lack of entering through the narrow gate.

Striving is the means to enter into the strait gate. It's literally a command in the imperative, our Lords commands: Strive, so that you be able (not like the rest) to enter into the strait gate.

This statement is concerning. Unless I am mistaken, it sounds like you might be promoting a works-based or a "striving"-based salvation.

No, brother, salvation is by grace alone through faith in Christ alone. As I said, I am alluding to the puritan doctrine of seeking/preparation (I am not sure if you ever heard of it, but granted, at first it may sound like a works-based salvation), but basically works are there necessary, but not meritorious, for salvation. God won't throw a thunder at you out of the dark, and voila, you're converted. But you are expected to attend the means of grace which God appointed for saving sinners, for example reading the Scriptures, attend the church meetings, surround yourself by godly people, and be as good as you can. In the end that doesn't merit anything to your salvation, but nonetheless, God works through these means, and little were the seekers that didn't find salvation in that way (according to the Puritans, for example Jonathan Edwards).

Gerstner has a four-part teaching on this:

 

[MyCrows]

but basically works are there necessary, but not meritorious, for salvation.

But they are not necessary for salvation, they are the necessary product of it.

 

[Apologia Christou]

But they are not necessary for salvation, they are the necessary product of it.

Well, I can easily prove that some kind of "works" are necessary for salvation: the hearing of the Word. If you don't hear the Word, you will not be saved. You must hear the Word, in order for there being any chance that you might get saved. And connected with that is the attendance to the church, or bible studies etc. And so maybe our Lord is alluding to these kind of things in this passage. As jw so beautifully put it:

Place yourself in the way the Lord has appointed for hearts to be changed.

I really like that.

 

[MyCrows]

That's not a work.

That is a means of grace God has ordained for salvation. I think we may be differing on our use of the word "works".

 

[Jude24]

Striving is the means to enter into the strait gate. It's literally a command in the imperative, our Lords commands: Strive, so that you be able (not like the rest) to enter into the strait gate.



No, brother, salvation is by grace alone through faith in Christ alone. As I said, I am alluding to the puritan doctrine of seeking/preparation (I am not sure if you ever heard of it, but granted, at first it may sound like a works-based salvation), but basically works are there necessary, but not meritorious, for salvation. God won't throw a thunder at you out of the dark, and voila, you're converted. But you are expected to attend the means of grace which God appointed for saving sinners, for example reading the Scriptures, attend the church meetings, surround yourself by godly people, and be as good as you can. In the end that doesn't merit anything to your salvation, but nonetheless, God works through these means, and little were the seekers that didn't find salvation in that way (according to the Puritans, for example Jonathan Edwards).

Gerstner has a four-part teaching on this:

I'll be honest that I am not familiar with this teaching and will have to look further into it. However, I would hesitate to state that works are necessary in the act of salvation, even when clarifying they are not the cause. Yes, they will most certainly be evident in the saved person. But these are the fruits of salvation and not the cause.

Look at the conversion of Paul. I find it difficult to say there were works involved in his experience.

I also think Ephesians 2 blatantly eliminates this belief. Particularly Ephesians 2:8-9.

 

[Apologia Christou]

Here's a quote from Gerstners Rational Biblical Theology of Jonathan Edwards, where Edwards lists 10 things that the sinner can and should do in his natural condition:


1. “A man can abstain from the outward gratifications of his lusts.”

2. “A man can in many respects keep out of the way of temptation.”

3. “Persons can perform outward duties of morality towards their neighbours.”

4. “Persons can search the Scripture.”

5. “Persons can attend all ordinances.”

6. “Persons can use their tongues to the purpose of religion.”

7. “Persons have in a great measure the command of their thoughts.”

8. “Persons can set apart a suitable proportion of their time for these things.”

9. “Persons can improve divine assistance that is given.”

10.“They can lay out their strength in these things as well as other things.”

It is perfectly clear that this answers the criticism that Edwards capitulates to Arminianism in his preparation doctrine. As much as he gives the sinner to do, all of it could be done by natural ability. There was not an iota of virtue in any or all of it. Sin, Edwards explained, did not destroy the power of the hand but the willingness of the heart. “Outward” acts remained permanently in the power of the depraved. As Puritans were wont to observe, the sinners’ legs could take them to the meeting house as easily as to the tavern. For them, therefore, to excuse themselves for not doing what they could, because of what they could not do, was inexcusable.

Jonathan Edwards Collection: Edwards, Jonathan - Rational Biblical Theology: Chapt 28 Seeking

 

[Contra_Mundum]

So, we being Calvinists, let's imagine a situation where the unbeliever says to you these very words: "Dear Christian, I don't have it in my heart to believe in Christ, nor to repent. How can I be saved? What can I do?"

What would you say to him? What does the Scripture say to this very situation?

I would want to know what he himself means by the words he says. If he does not "have it in [his] heart to believe in Christ, nor to repent," how is it the case that he desires salvation? If the first statement is true, are the questions that follow coherent?

Does the unbeliever accept the reality of "sin?" Does he understand himself to be under condemnation? What/Who is the source of the law and judgment? If he's obsessed by a nameless fear, shouldn't the Christian witness first go about to put divine definition upon that apprehension? Christ is the answer to a specific question; he is not simply a generic Savior.

Telling someone he must "believe in Christ," when that person has no real understanding of his need, leads to pointless debates about an imaginary person who both 1) desires Christian salvation, yet 2) is never able to come to Christ (in some alleged Calvinist conundrum). A man who has come under real conviction of sin is like a drowning man who knows the peril. He may not yet know whence his lifeline may come, but who can doubt that if it appears he will grab hold of it? Can you picture the man in such trouble disdaining Christ?

The man who has been drawn into the lifeboat of Salvation piloted by Christ, if after that he claims "I do not have it in my heart to believe allegedly so great salvation," has leapt again overboard. He either prefers to drown, or has come to think he does not drown, or that he will find another and better savior.

There are two perspectives on the phenomenon of redemption: the earthly and the heavenly. From the standpoint of men, there is the fact of the call of the gospel accompanied by some form of response to it. The will of a man is actuated either in faith or its contrary rejection. The questions of "why" and "how" a man exercises faith (or does not) seek deeper, explanatory investigation of the phenomenon itself. As an aid to the believer's (not the unbeliever's) understanding of the phenomenon, the otherwise hidden divine perspective on redemption is provided--including the decree of election--in order to add a strong element of consolation to the understanding of faith.

We should never forget that the biblical doctrine of election (so frequently conceived as something exclusively "calvinistic," philosophical, and abstruse) is ultimately a matter of eternal perspective. What we know of it has God telling us how he sees the matter; it is not man reasoning his way to foundational clarity and order. Man remains bound within his earthly perspective in regard of his own powers of discernment. But the Christian has knowledge of a better and surer awareness and government over redemption (as the supreme concern), and in consequence that God governs all things for the good of his church and the elect drawn into it.

The summons of the gospel is given to men according to their earthly perspective. Do you, o man, desire salvation? If you actually understand your predicament, then it follows you must be looking for a savior of some kind. If Christ comes to your awareness, there is more than enough inducement to persuade you to lean on him. What is needful is only that he be presented accurately, as the One who is able. If you cannot believe on him, it follows that you must continue to search to find another more adequate; or else depend upon yourself. The fault (if one should never be saved) is not with God.

 

[Polanus1561]

Isa 55:1-2

 

[Apologia Christou]

Look at the conversion of Paul. I find it difficult to say there were works involved in his experience.

Of course, God could still throw the thunder (you got me there), but this is not the ordinary manner of his working, and we shouldn't focus on that, neither should we expect that. The Puritans maintained that careful observation, too.

 

[Apologia Christou]

If he does not "have it in [his] heart to believe in Christ, nor to repent," how is it the case that he desires salvation?

He desires salvation not in the sense that he loves God and finds him beautiful (he hates God), but he doesn't want to be punished. The reason a sinner seeks salvation is love to self, not love to God. For some reason he is convicted that there is a judgment coming after death, and so he can not rest and therefore truly seeks salvation. It is a sinful seeking, but it is nevertheless less sinful than not seeking at all. And, it may lead to salvation.

7. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others; yet, because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God; they are therefore sinful and can not please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God. And yet their neglect of them is more sinful, and displeasing unto God.

WCF — Chapter XVI: Of Good Works

 

[Apologia Christou]

I think we may be differing on our use of the word "works".

I mean basically this: You have to do something, but you can not merit anything. You can not simply sit there and let God.

 

[Jude24]

Here's a quote from Gerstners Rational Biblical Theology of Jonathan Edwards, where Edwards lists 10 things that the sinner can and should do in his natural condition:


1. “A man can abstain from the outward gratifications of his lusts.”

2. “A man can in many respects keep out of the way of temptation.”

3. “Persons can perform outward duties of morality towards their neighbours.”

4. “Persons can search the Scripture.”

5. “Persons can attend all ordinances.”

6. “Persons can use their tongues to the purpose of religion.”

7. “Persons have in a great measure the command of their thoughts.”

8. “Persons can set apart a suitable proportion of their time for these things.”

9. “Persons can improve divine assistance that is given.”

10.“They can lay out their strength in these things as well as other things.”

It is perfectly clear that this answers the criticism that Edwards capitulates to Arminianism in his preparation doctrine. As much as he gives the sinner to do, all of it could be done by natural ability. There was not an iota of virtue in any or all of it. Sin, Edwards explained, did not destroy the power of the hand but the willingness of the heart. “Outward” acts remained permanently in the power of the depraved. As Puritans were wont to observe, the sinners’ legs could take them to the meeting house as easily as to the tavern. For them, therefore, to excuse themselves for not doing what they could, because of what they could not do, was inexcusable.

Jonathan Edwards Collection: Edwards, Jonathan - Rational Biblical Theology: Chapt 28 Seeking

Yes, of course, unregenerate people can do these outward physical actions. None of these things save souls, however, and Edwards is not saying that they do.