I wanted to respond to the comments in the thread about John Piper, Sovereign Grace, et al but didn't want to hijack the thread. There seem to me to be two issues (at least) with things Charismatic. 1) the Cessationist/Non-Cessationist debate, and 2) the "baptism in the Holy Spirit". which involves a Holiness-movement perfectionist idea that one can become a "spiritual" or "victorious" Christian if one is "filled" with the Spirit in a second conversion-type experience. For the record, Piper, in his sermons on Romans 7, makes very clear that he does NOT believe the kind of malarkey in Point 2! The Cessationist thing, I'm not too sure about where he's at, and we can't expect to agree w/everyone, nor is everyone right. If he's not a cessationist, I disagree with him on that issue. But he's not a perfectionist either.