NOTE: This thread is a split off of a thread regarding responsibilities for attendance on worship, that can be found here:
Was "Sabbath breakers"; Elder Responsibilites
First, excommunication is NOT physical. The one who is excommunicated is actually ENCOURAGED to continue to attend upon the means of grace in the word preached as a means of God granting repentance. So even if the Baptist church could excommunicate the man (which they cannot), that would not mean that they could bar the man.
Second, the problem (I say again) lies first with the man and second with the PCA church. He has violated his vow to support the worship of the Church and his vow to be gathered together with them. As far as I am concerned, the Saturday evening service is an excuse - no more. That is where the Session has an issue - they are encouraging a man in his sin by giving him a plausible excuse.
But in the final analysis, the issue is NOT a Sabbath one for me (to repeat what I said earlier). Let me say that if an elder were to abandon a Wednesday night prayer service of his church (which is NOT a worship service or a Sabbath issue) in favor of another church where the "prayer was better," he should be admonished, and if unrepentant, disciplined (including being stripped of his office). To whom much is given, much is expected.
[Edited on 2/16/2005 by fredtgreco]
Was "Sabbath breakers"; Elder Responsibilites
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Adam,
I have got to be honest; the problem here in this thread is two or three things:
1) It is almost impossible to compare Baptist polity with Presbyterian. They just do not align. What one church may do, the other does not. You'd think the PCA would be on the same page???
2) The mans church is not truly holding to the WCF; They have a Saturday evening service and two Lords day services; they believe that the Saturday service meets the WCF req's of keeping the Lords day holy, hence, he is not in any error from their perspective.
3) The Baptist church whom are strict sabbatarians are not challenging him for the two reasons they should be. One, he is an elder; they believe when the church gathers, all the elders are to be there, i.e. prayer meetings and every worship service, yet in this mans case, they don't enforce it. Possibly because he is not a member of their church. He has been attending routinely for 2 or so years; every Lords day. He does not want to switch churches and is a confessed paedo baptist, i.e. no personality conflict going on. The other reason is that they are strict sabbatarians; you'd think they would suggest that he meets with his own church oin the sabbath and by neglecting this principle, he is breaking the sabbath.
As far as letting him sit there (under the preaching), if he was under discipline, would you let him sit there? Excommunication is physical isn't it. You are asked to leave until you are repentant. But, he's not under discipline-see! The Baptist church can't discipline him; he is not a member........oh my, what did I do here?
First, excommunication is NOT physical. The one who is excommunicated is actually ENCOURAGED to continue to attend upon the means of grace in the word preached as a means of God granting repentance. So even if the Baptist church could excommunicate the man (which they cannot), that would not mean that they could bar the man.
Second, the problem (I say again) lies first with the man and second with the PCA church. He has violated his vow to support the worship of the Church and his vow to be gathered together with them. As far as I am concerned, the Saturday evening service is an excuse - no more. That is where the Session has an issue - they are encouraging a man in his sin by giving him a plausible excuse.
But in the final analysis, the issue is NOT a Sabbath one for me (to repeat what I said earlier). Let me say that if an elder were to abandon a Wednesday night prayer service of his church (which is NOT a worship service or a Sabbath issue) in favor of another church where the "prayer was better," he should be admonished, and if unrepentant, disciplined (including being stripped of his office). To whom much is given, much is expected.
[Edited on 2/16/2005 by fredtgreco]