Weak Ecclesiology=weak churches?

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Notthemama1984

Puritan Board Post-Graduate
My ecclesiology class is beyond weak. I have been in class for close to ten weeks now and the only thing we have discussed is...

1) there is a universal church
2) there is a local church
3) there is a pre-trib rapture of the church
4) the church started at Pentecost


There has been absolutely nothing of real worth discussed (I am thinking Word, sacrament, discipline, or purpose for example).

This has caused me to think. If seminaries take ecclesiology so lightly (I know I am broadstroking and am sure our reformed seminaries do better), it is no wonder why our churches take church so lightly.

Do you think that if seminaries would equip our pastors with a greater understanding of ecclesiology that our churches would be stronger?
 
Give that man a cigar!

What is the church for? A lot of Christians say they don't believe the church is just a Christian social-club, but in practice it ends up being not much more than that. The Service (and sermon) simply reinforces the group-think, and the surrounding activities are the life of the body.
 
I posted a statistic on Facebook that 80% of PASTORS felt that the music was the most important aspect of the service and how this is a reason why our churches are going down. My brother-in-law agreed with me. The problem was that he thought I was saying that the other 20% needed to get with the program and that they were holding the church back.

I actually asked him, "Are you saying that your I-IV-V chord progression is more important than the very Words of God." Without skipping a beat he said yes. I shook my head at the statement and thought you are so far from the truth on this. I felt sorry for him though. Why should I expect him to have a good understanding of ecclesiology when the pastors he looks up to have no concept of the seriousness of church?

It has to start at the top right?

T. David Gordon made the point in Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns that believers take more care and show more respect in their choice of music for weddings and funerals than they do for the worship of the Almighty.

I have been feeling that Sundays have become National Spitting in God's Face Day.

May God have mercy on the church.
 
Boliver:

Yes I am certain the seminary training (or lack thereof) has something to do with it, but let us not forget that the spirit of the age has also coerced many churches to accommodate to the spirit of the world. A man may be properly trained, but does the church have the will to endure sound teaching? A man may be properly trained but does he have the will to teach soundly?

Ultimately the priorities of the church are wrong simply because the church does not have a biblical identity.
 
Could it be said that the church does not have this biblical identity because it doesn't know what its' identity should be?
 
I think in many modern churches have lost sight of their real purpose, which is to proclaim the gospel. The worship at many churches has become almost a rock show.

I'm not going to church to hear "Let's party with Jesus" dance music. I'm going because I desire to worship the Almighty God, not just in song, but more importantly through hearing and applying the Word in my life. Unfortunately, a lot of church leaders have lost sight of this in today's world.

As you noted, I think a lot of this is due to church leaders not being properly equipped, as well as giving in to cultural pressures and the desire to appeal to the masses.
 
We have two problems intersecting in the modern church.

First, most have lost sight of the true God. Without a fear of the true and living God who will stand in judgment of us, we have no need to proclaim the gospel, we have no awe in coming before Him to worship, we will not cling to each other within the visible church to encourage and sustain our walk before this great sovereign.

Secondly, we have many people who have grown up outside of a good church, or who came to faith through para-church organizations. Even if they've responded to the true gospel, they don't know what to look for in a good church, and if they're becoming church leaders, they don't know how to lead a congregation in matters ecclesiastical. Good classes on ecclesiology are just a start (and Boliver, I notice at least two errors in the four things you've already been taught). Careful mentoring is critical in developing the next generation of leadership. This is true before someone examines and confirms a call in himself to leadership, and continues through training, and internship, and beyond.

Signed -- the pew dweller who's gonna be a little old lady under the pastoral care of the next generation.
 
It's disheartening to hear this about your seminary (a prominent one in the evangelical world), because well-trained pastors can make a difference. It's tough these days, with the cultural mindset firmly convinced Christianity is an individual endeavor. But a pastor with a strong vision for the church goes a long way toward instilling such a vision in the people.
 
We need to beef-up on the ecclesiology if we are to have beefier churches and not more evanjellycalism.
 
I am assuming you are referring to points 3 and 4?

Yup. Seeing the church as part of a New Testament dispensation is going to strip the church at every level: defining God's people, the manner in which Old Testament worship informs NT, the place of the church eschatologically ....
 
Do you think that if seminaries would equip our pastors with a greater understanding of ecclesiology that our churches would be stronger?

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

According to this, you betcha!!!
 
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