We will give account for every idle word? Even believers? And how?

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I am the poster of the OP and I am happy to have it veer and get into tangential issues, which are indirectly related (i.e. degrees of punishment in hell and levels of reward in heaven).


So, are most agreed here that the saints, too, will give an account for every idle word spoken in this life at the Day of Judgment?
 
I don't think we read of any "scoldings" by God of believers on the last day, or anything like that.

But - although all are eligible for Heaven and for the enjoymemt of God in Christ - some will receive greater rewards than others, because of what they have done with what God has given them (e.g. Luke 19:11-27).

This comes under the rubric of sanctification, not justification. It goes without saying that it is vital that this distinction be maintained. :2cents:

E.g. Where the Apostle is talking about some suffering loss in I Corinthians 3:15, he is either

(a) Talking about Pastor's who have produced no true fruit in their ministry

or

(b) True Christians who have not made use of their talents.

The loss they suffer is not loss of any salvation or of Heaven or of Christ but the extra rewards, which are spiritual, (e.g. of shining like the stars in the universe, Daniel 12) of winning many souls for Christ or of the larger cup - which Rev. Winzer mentioned - by which to enjoy God.

But everyone will be happy because there is no envy in Heaven, as there shouldn't be in the Church on Earth, and we will all be with Jesus forever. Scoldings and chastisements are at an end at death.

John Newton, commenting on the passage about "idle words, etc", said he didn't know if he would mind his bad idle words to be known on the Day of judgment, anyway, because he would be so glad that he was saved and home with Christ, he would be completely sanctified, and his bad idle words being widely known would only bring more glory to Christ for saving him, which would make John Newton happier - which is basically what Sarah was saying.
 
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J.I. Packer, Concise Theology (p. 256-257):


In the case of those who profess to be Christ's, review of their actual words and works (Matt. 12:36-37) will have the special point of uncovering the evidence that shows whether their profession is the fruit of an honest regenerate heart (Matt. 12:33-35) or merely the parrot-cry of a hypocritical religiosity (Matt. 7:21-23). Everything about everybody will be exposed on judgment Day (I Cor. 4:5) and each will receive from God according to what he or she really is...

Knowledge of future judgment is always a summons to present repentance. Only the penitent will be prepared for judgment when it comes.
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One of the chilling aspects of doing a lot of study in the prophets during the last couple years is the realization that God was addressing the covenant community -- for the most part, those warnings were addressed to the Old Testament church! God's people face judgment both in this life and in the final judgment. While we have been fully justified by Christ, we will face an accounting.
 
J.I. Packer, Concise Theology (p. 256-257):


In the case of those who profess to be Christ's, review of their actual words and works (Matt. 12:36-37) will have the special point of uncovering the evidence that shows whether their profession is the fruit of an honest regenerate heart (Matt. 12:33-35) or merely the parrot-cry of a hypocritical religiosity (Matt. 7:21-23). Everything about everybody will be exposed on judgment Day (I Cor. 4:5) and each will receive from God according to what he or she really is...

Knowledge of future judgment is always a summons to present repentance. Only the penitent will be prepared for judgment when it comes.
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May I add that we are judged as sons, not law breakers. The vestige of our sinful defilement being dealt with at the judgment seat of Christ. Roman Catholics would see this being played out in purgatory, but that viewbisbin error because it teaches that man can atone for his sins. Our merit is in Christ.
 
Scripture does not give us a great deal of specifics about what happens at the judgment seat so we must be careful not to speculate as if it were revealed truth.

We know that faith in Christ's righteousness alone saves us (past, present and future), and that we will be counted as righteous on the judgment day and are even now. We also know we will have glorified bodies and dwell in the presence of our Lord forever. This is magnificent beyond what we can imagine.

We also have indication that a complete accounting, all the awfulness of our sin in thought, word and deed will be accounted and that some of God's people will be rewarded with things even beyond pardon and eternal life with God.

Other believers apparently will not have those rewards (again, they are pardoned from sin and receive eternal life) and will suffer some sort of "loss." Maybe that means the loss of further rewards, we don't know. Scripture does not give us much detail to know how or what this will be.

Sin, and walking a disorderly christian life brings temporal misery. Giving our lives over to self seeking rather than God or neighbor brings temporal misery, a sense of isolation from God (though He never leaves us), a full accounting on judgment day, and perhaps loss of some further rewards in Heaven.

This ought be all the believer needs to stop excusing his sin, stop rationalizing the license of God's grace... and to repent and seek to glorify God, daily.
 
One of the chilling aspects of doing a lot of study in the prophets during the last couple years is the realization that God was addressing the covenant community -- for the most part, those warnings were addressed to the Old Testament church! God's people face judgment both in this life and in the final judgment. While we have been fully justified by Christ, we will face an accounting.

True enough. But you have to realise that all those outwardly in the Covenant people/OT visible Church (maybe the majority at various times), weren't justified, and therefore weren't being sanctified.

The same is true today. The New Covenant people/visible Church consists of all those who have been baptised and are taking the Lord's Supper, and their children. What proportion are justified in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant and Pentecostal parts of the Visible Church?

-----Added 9/14/2009 at 03:20:38 EST-----

Quote from Scott
Other believers apparently will not have those rewards (again, they are pardoned from sin and receive eternal life) and will suffer some sort of "loss." Maybe that means the loss of further rewards, we don't know. Scripture does not give us much detail to know how or what this will be.

Is the loss may be realising how you misused/did not use what you had?

To balance that, Romans 8:28 came to mind.

These things are somewhat mysterious, but they are there because God is perfectly just and fair, and to motivate us, as if we were without a basis for motivation already.
 
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I am the poster of the OP and I am happy to have it veer and get into tangential issues, which are indirectly related (i.e. degrees of punishment in hell and levels of reward in heaven).


So, are most agreed here that the saints, too, will give an account for every idle word spoken in this life at the Day of Judgment?

Pergamum, can you point back in this thread and tell me ONE person who does not think we will give an account of every idle word? If so who.

As far as you trying to imply that God has a problem with saved Christian being judged in Heaven I have to ask if you have ever read that we (Christians) are to be judged by fire and like gold being refined? That seems to be clear in the Word of God. What is the problem? We are saved from our sins.
 
Quote from Bill
The vestige of our sinful defilement being dealt with at the judgment seat of Christ

All our sins have been forgiven in Christ's blood and a place in Heaven bought by His perfect righteousness (Justification)

At death the process of Sanctification will be completed and we will achieve moral Perfection.

There will be no vestige of our sinful defilement to be dealt with at the judgment.

There are "top up rewards" for those who have used what they had been given more wisely. There will be no punishment, chastisements, shame, scoldings, regrets, envy, etc, in the Heavenly Kingdom.

I presume that the following blessed verses apply to all the Redeemed.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God."He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away." (Revelation 21:3-4, ESV)
 
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One of the chilling aspects of doing a lot of study in the prophets during the last couple years is the realization that God was addressing the covenant community -- for the most part, those warnings were addressed to the Old Testament church! God's people face judgment both in this life and in the final judgment. While we have been fully justified by Christ, we will face an accounting.

True enough. But you have to realise that all those outwardly in the Covenant people/OT visible Church (maybe the majority at various times), weren't justified, and therefore weren't being sanctified.

The same is true today. The New Covenant people/visible Church consists of all those who have been baptised and are taking the Lord's Supper, and their children. What proportion are justified in the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant and Pentecostal parts of the Visible Church?

-----Added 9/14/2009 at 03:20:38 EST-----

Quote from Scott
Other believers apparently will not have those rewards (again, they are pardoned from sin and receive eternal life) and will suffer some sort of "loss." Maybe that means the loss of further rewards, we don't know. Scripture does not give us much detail to know how or what this will be.

Is the loss may be realising how you misused/did not use what you had?

It could be. Again, don't want to speculate, but there is a basis for the notion of suffering loss.

I Corinthians 3

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

To balance that, Romans 8:28 came to mind.
This is both sobering and comforting to think of.

Particularly so as we are in a generation that has rationalized its self-centeredness and demanded that it be taught from the pulpit. God have mercy on us.


These things are somewhat mysterious, but there because God is perfectly just and fair, and to motivate us.

And merciful, and knowing all our sin, He still chose us and loved us... glory be to God for that!
 
Pergamum;



Will there be any rebukes or scoldings of believers at the Last Judgment?

Which judgment are you referring to? As I understand it there will be two, one for unbelievers (The Great White Throne Judgment) and one for believers (The Judgment Seat of Christ)
 
Pergamum;

Which judgment are you referring to? As I understand it there will be two, one for unbelievers (The Great White Throne Judgment) and one for believers (The Judgment Seat of Christ)
Two judgments? That's interesting, where do you see that in the Scripture since I only can see one? I would like to know what's the Biblical foundation for this doctrine. I have heard this before but never seen a Biblical proof. I have to teach on the subject of the Final Judgment at Sunday School in a few weeks and I would like to discuss this with my students
 
Quote from Richard Tallach
Is the loss may be realising how you misused/did not use what you had?

But at the same time, I may add, aching regret or even regret is incompatible with the blessedness of the saints in the Heavenly Kingdom.

Quote from bjclark
Which judgment are you referring to? As I understand it there will be two, one for unbelievers (The Great White Throne Judgment) and one for believers (The Judgment Seat of Christ)

I thought there was one judgment with two classes of people which happens at the end of the world when Jesus returns.

Are these Dispensational distinctions?
 
Pergamum;

Which judgment are you referring to? As I understand it there will be two, one for unbelievers (The Great White Throne Judgment) and one for believers (The Judgment Seat of Christ)
Two judgments? That's interesting, where do you see that in the Scripture since I only can see one? I would like to know what's the Biblical foundation for this doctrine. I have heard this before but never seen a Biblical proof. I have to teach on the subject of the Final Judgment at Sunday School in a few weeks and I would like to discuss this with my students


This is Dispensational teaching.

There will be only one Judgment and it will be universal.
 
Westminster Larger Catechism
[emphasis added]

Question 87: What are we to believe concerning the resurrection?

Answer: We are to believe, that at the last day there shall be a general resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust: when they that are then found alive shall in a moment be changed; and the selfsame bodies of the dead which were laid in the grave, being then again united to their souls forever, shall be raised up by the power of Christ. The bodies of the just, by the Spirit of Christ, and by virtue of his resurrection as their head, shall be raised in power, spiritual, incorruptible, and made like to his glorious body; and the bodies of the wicked shall be raised up in dishonor by him, as an offended judge.

Question 88: What shall immediately follow after the resurrection?

Answer: Immediately after the resurrection shall follow the general and final judgment of angels and men; the day and hour whereof no man knows, that all may watch and pray, and be ever ready for the coming of the Lord.

Question 89: What shall be done to the wicked at the day of judgment?

Answer: At the day of judgment, the wicked shall be set on Christ's left hand, and, upon clear evidence, and full conviction of their own consciences, shall have the fearful but just sentence of condemnation pronounced against them; and thereupon shall be cast out from the favorable presence of God, and the glorious fellowship with Christ, his saints, and all his holy angels, into hell, to be punished with unspeakable torments, both of body and soul, with the devil and his angels forever.

Question 90: What shall be done to the righteous at the day of judgment?

Answer: At the day of judgment, the righteous, being caught up to Christ in the clouds, shall be set on his right hand, and there openly acknowledged and acquitted, shall join with him in the judging of reprobate angels and men, and shall be received into heaven, where they shall be fully and forever freed from all sin and misery; filled with inconceivable joys, made perfectly holy and happy both in body and soul, in the company of innumerable saints and holy angels, but especially in the immediate vision and fruition of God the Father, of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, to all eternity. And this is the perfect and full communion, which the members of the invisible church shall enjoy with Christ in glory, at the resurrection and day of judgment.

Praise God!
 
This is Dispensational teaching.

There will be only one Judgment and it will be universal.
That's what I understand from the Scripture. I was pointed to an article that attempts to explain the basis for the two judgments, but the author (obviously a dispensationalist) assumes a priori that there are two judgments but never proves it from the Scripture. It drew my attention that he used 2Co 5:10 as a support verse. I wonder if he read it.

2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
 
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