Featured Was Adam indwelt by the Holy Spirit pre-Fall?

Discussion in 'Pneumatology' started by Goodcheer68, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. Goodcheer68

    Goodcheer68 Puritan Board Freshman

    Was Adam indwelt by the Holy Spirit pre-Fall? My instinct would be that he was (Gen 2:7).
    The question came up discussing the WCF Ch 6 and the fall the other night. We were thinking about the differences of communion with God between Adam prefall and believers now. As I was trying to do research I also noticed there is a lack of resources on the Holy Spirit. None of the ST I have; Bavinck, Berkhoff, Horton, Calvin, etc. seem to deal with the Holy Spirit in-depth. So I figured I would seek the help of the Puritanboard. Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Patrick
     
  2. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    It would seem as if after the fall, the protoevangeliin was first proclaimed. Since Adam and Eve needed the gospel at that point, I would say that the HS was different prior to their actual being redeemed by their acceptance of that call and prior to the actual call.

    I hadn’t really thought about this question before. The Pneuma Hagion is omnipresent and most definitely there while they walked in the garden. But, I believe the HS during that time was intimate w/ them in a different way, but not ‘in’ them.
     
  3. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Witsius, Economy, 3:13:31-32 here.

    XXX. As that Spirit continually abides in believers, so he is also in them as the spring of eternal life. For he is “the Spirit of life,” Rom. 8:3. His holy and comfortable energy is the life of the soul: for death reigns in a blind and depraved mind. John 17:3: “This is life eternal, to know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” Spiritual life consists in knowing, loving, revering the grace and truth of God the Father and of Christ, and in the joy which arises from these; which is called eternal, because, when it is begun in this world, it is carried on by the continual influence of the Spirit, and brought to perfection in the world to come. In another place it is called “a root within,” Matt. 13:21. “The anointing which abideth,” 1 John 2:27. “The seed that remaineth,” 1 John 3:9. “A well of water springing up into everlasting life.” John 4:14.

    XXXI. The nature of that life, which is infused into the elect in regeneration, is far different from that which was in Adam in innocence, though even that was holy, and from the Holy Spirit. For, 1st, In that state, man was left to himself, without any promise of the constant inhabitation of the Spirit; such as, we have just proved, the elect have now. 2dly, That cause which first produced this life, seems also to be the same which makes them persevere therein; but this life is implanted in man, who resists it, and takes pleasure in spiritual death, and sets himself with all his might against God: it is infused, I say, by the invincible efficacy of the Spirit, which Paul has so highly commended, Eph. 1:19. As, therefore, that efficacy of the Spirit has, notwithstanding, overcome and subdued those that resisted and opposed his operations, so, in like manner, after he has once settled himself in souls thus vanquished and subdued, he constantly keeps the place he has once occupied; and should any thing arise, either from within or from without, that should attempt to weaken it; the more violent the attack, the more carefully it will collect its whole force and prepare for a resistance. And what should retard its progress, when its enemies are now vanquished; seeing nothing could withstand its power in the beginning, when every thing was against it.
     
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  4. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable Staff Member

    The state of the regenerate is much more glorious than that of Adam in the state of rectitude, for the union of the regenerate with Christ is unbreakable.
     
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  5. Goodcheer68

    Goodcheer68 Puritan Board Freshman

    I believe that the regenerate state is greater for we are united to Christ where Adam wasn’t.
     
  6. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Adam was united to Christ prior to his fall. His sin separated him from God. He was restored to righteousness by the gospel in Christ Jesus.
     
  7. Goodcheer68

    Goodcheer68 Puritan Board Freshman

    Was Adam united to Christ prior to the fall? I’m working through this but it seems that the incarnation through the Holy Spirit is what enables us to be united to Christ. If he was united then how is our state any better than Adam originally? I thought our state looks beyond going back to the Garden.
     
  8. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable Staff Member

    I suppose one would have to unpack "united" a wee bit to distinguish between our union with Christ and Adam's pre-fall state of moral rectitude.
     
  9. Goodcheer68

    Goodcheer68 Puritan Board Freshman

    Could you unpack that a wee bit then
     
  10. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable Staff Member

    I cannot, for it would require me to read the mind of Scott, hence my gentle suggestion for him to do so. ;)
     
  11. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Would the breath of God given to Adam at His creation though be involving both physical and spiritual state, or just that he now physically alive, and also already die to divine creation in right standing with God, hence no need until the fall to have the Holy Spirit indwelling him?
     
  12. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    To assume that Adam, prior to the fall, was not 'united' to Christ in a sinless state, is suspect; I will grant you that it is not the same unity we experience upon conversion, as we are unified through the redemption of Christ's blood; Adam needed no redemption prior to the fall; hence, his unity was greater in many ways; ways no man has ever experienced. Adam walked with God in a way, no one since has.
     
  13. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    We have the Holy Spirit residing in us due to the new nature in Christ now, but would Adam need to have the Holy Spirit in Him, if created morally perfect and not sinning? And is not our final state greater than what he experienced between Him and God in Eden?
     
  14. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


    Adam was not created 'morally perfect'. How could that be if he chose the thing that was morally wrong? He was sinless. Thats the big difference.

    'better testament, better covenant, better surety'...etc. I don't believe this is saying that Adam didn't have it better than us (consider what I describer earlier), but that when we compare the fall and the ceremonies etc, the New Covenant in Christ is gracious and 'better', than those things.
     
  15. Charles Johnson

    Charles Johnson Puritan Board Freshman

    Adam was the recipient of some measure of gracious influences in order to sustain him in his state of sinlessness before the fall, a conclusion which must follow from the fall not happening in the very moment of his creation, though it was soon afterward. Puritan divines called this grace "connatural", meaning that he had it from the moment of his creation and it was not added on afterwards, as is the Romanist doctrine of the "donum superadditum". Seeing as he had some measure of grace, we must conclude that he had this grace by the Spirit. A couple Puritan works that address the state of grace in prelapsarian Adam are Samuel Ruthetford's "Influences of the Life of Grace" and Anthony Burgess's "Vindiciae Legis". However, I believe it is improper to speak of the Spirit as indwelling him, since that is the language of the Spirit's permanent covenantal presence, and as others have already said, Adam's reception of grace was not by promise and could be, and was, withdrawn. To say that the Spirit abides in us or indwells us in the New Covenant/Covenant of Grace does not indicate the local presence of the Spirit, since God is omnipresent; rather, it indicates Covenant presence and perpetuity of gracious influences, especially a habit of grace, since we do not receive the same amount of gracious influences at all times, but as much as the Spirit wills according to his good pleasure. A good comparison would be the influences of the Spirit in the unregenerate man, such as Saul.
     
  16. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    Our post-fall concept of "union with Christ" is inseparable from a proper understanding of what it means to be "united to a mediator" (indeed, the Mediator). The indwelling Spirit for believers is inextricable from union.

    Adam was not "united to a mediator," for he WAS mediator of a sort, he was the federal head of the Covenant of Works. Adam was in fellowship with God, being created in that fellowship, and that covenant formed the basis of their relationship. Adam was not reliant on the Holy Spirit to BE holy and accepted, for he was holy; nor was he promised (in any direct way) the help of the H.S.; but possessed the power to remain as he was.

    So, in that sense he did not require (the way believers do now, still cumbered with sinful flesh) the fresh, boundless energies of the Spirit, by which we are in process of made over in Christ's holy image; and are accepted as if we already were temporally perfected in holiness--temporally as opposed to legally, although legal is REAL, actual and substantive in truth and power.

    It doesn't help to talk about union with Christ and partaking of his Spirit--as that concept comes to us in our post-fall, post-redemptive estate--projecting it upon Adam's estate. Reading that language "back into" Adam only confuses, rather than clarifying. "United to Christ or God" is not simply an equivalent expression for "walking with God," an expression that itself is post-fall (Gen.5:22), or any other way of expressing the blessed condition of original righteousness.

    Adam was in covenant with God. We are in covenant with God. In those terms, we have a point of contact with Adam's first condition, and he has a point of contact with our present condition (especially as he joined it post-fall before any of us). But our covenant now is "in Christ," whereas prior to the fall Adam did not have or need that exact possibility.

    I am aware of the PRC position, going back to their guiding light Hoeksema, that the Covenant of Works is a fiction. He totallizes election and the Covenant of Grace; therefore, grace is all Adam knows for relating to God, and so Adam himself (apparently) starts out "in union with Christ." I attribute this position to rejecting the historic two-covenant schema combined with the eternal Covenant of Redemption.

    With the latter (CoR), we retain the eternal election of believers "in Christ," while allowing for an historic passage from death (outside of union) to life (in union). Adam also participates in this passage, though uniquely he and Eve do not begin "in death" with the rest of us born "of ordinary generation."

    By the way, I don't think anyone is arguing here for something radically different from my above presentation. The issue is that we not err in trying to impose language suited for our post-fall estate upon the pre-fall. The divine ministry of grace to mankind that we know, of Christ and the Spirit, follows from the fall and what it wrought. Adam started out his existence in a very different relationship to God than any that his children have known, despite the fact that ALL are bound to obey the identical covenant of works--and none but Christ after him has ever had the ability to keep it.
     
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  17. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    I think we would have to ask what the Holy Spirit does. He indwells his children for quickening their souls (dead to life). Once this is done it can’t be undone. When Adam fell he spiritually died per God’s promise of what would happen. If he had been in dwelt by the Holy Spirit before falling he couldn’t have died spiritually. To say that he had the Holy Spirit before the fall, is to do gymnastics with reformed theology. He has the Holy Spirit then he didn’t have the Holy Spirit then he had the Holy Spirit. That’s not reformed theology.
     
  18. Scott Bushey

    Scott Bushey Puritan Board Doctor

    He had the HS, externally in a way no one has ever had since. Indwelling of the HS does not mean our choices are perfected; many times, we still choose contrarily. See what M. Mcmahon posted above (I believe in post # 3) on the matter.
     
  19. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    The OP question was did Adam have the Holy Spirit indwelling him NOT did he have the Holy Spirit externally. Of course Adam had a very unique relationship with The Triune God, but that wasn’t the question
     
  20. BottleOfTears

    BottleOfTears Puritan Board Freshman

    Where would I be able to find more information on/ discussion of this position?

    Thanks
     
  21. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    "Therefore, as the image of God constitutes the entire excellence of human nature, as it shone in Adam before his fall, but was afterwards vitiated and almost destroyed, nothing remaining but a ruin, confused, mutilated, and tainted with impurity, so it is now partly seen in the elect, in so far as they are regenerated by the Spirit." John Calvin Institutes of the Christian Religion, 1:15:3

    "But while I grant that Adam bore the image of God, inasmuch as he was united to God, (this being the true and highest perfection of dignity,) yet I maintain, that the likeness of God is to be sought for only in those marks of superiority with which God has distinguished Adam above the other animals." John Calvin Institutes of the Christian Religion, 2:12:6

    Was Adam filled with the Spirit at his creation?
    Can the Spirit inhabit and indwell someone not a sinner (i.e. Adam (pre-fall) or Christ)?
    Christ was filled with the Spirit without measure at his conception, and he was not fallen, nor a sinner. "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him." (John 3:34).
     
  22. Ask Mr. Religion

    Ask Mr. Religion Flatly Unflappable Staff Member

    Click the PDF button to show the index at the link below:
    https://www.prcts.org/past-journals

    Then search for Covenant of Works.

    See also Chapter 15 in Hoeksema's Reformed Dogmatics, vol. 1.

    A snippet:
    "Many and serious objections can be raised against this generally accepted doctrine of the covenant of works. That the relation between God and Adam in the state of righteousness was a covenant relation, we readily admit. But that this covenant should be an established agreement between Adam and his creator, consisting of a condition, a promise, and a penalty, and that it was essentially a means whereby Adam might work himself up to the highest state of eternal life and heavenly glory that is now attained by the believers in Christ, we deny."​
     
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  23. Goodcheer68

    Goodcheer68 Puritan Board Freshman

    I appreciate the comments. They are helping me think through this.
     
  24. BottleOfTears

    BottleOfTears Puritan Board Freshman

    Thanks, very helpful.
     
  25. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Just to be sure that I am understanding you here correctly, you are stating that before he fell, Adam was already in a spiritual relationship with God by Himself, so did not need to have the Mediator Christ, nor to be sealed by the Holy Spirit until he actually sinned, and thus become a sinner in need of such?
     
  26. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    So Adam was not spiritually dead before God until the Fall, so no need for the Mediator or the Holy Spirit as we do now?
     
  27. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    There was no need for a Mediator for them before the fall. What would a Mediator mediate? They were sinless. It's our sin that puts us in need for a Mediator. They were not in need for the Holy Spirit to indwell them because their souls were already spiritually alive and they had no need for sanctification. God communed with them without any barriers due to their sinless state. ....and God said, "It is good". Everything was as it should be in the Garden. I could be wrong though.....
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  28. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Consider the fruit of goodness, or anything which is good:
    "For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth," (Eph. 5:9).
    All, or some? Is this only in relationship to fallen people via a Mediator? Or "all" as in relationship to "all goodness, righteousness and truth?"
    If it is only applicable to fallen people, then its some, not all, and Paul got it wrong via the Holy Spirit. (Yikes!)
    Can Adam do works of righteousness of his own accord, or is the fruit of the Spirit in all goodness and righteousness and truth?
    Can Christ, did Christ, work only of his own accord, or by the full measure of the Spirit given to him who works all goodness and righteousness and truth?

    And further - "For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth; proving what is acceptable unto the Lord." (Eph. 5:9-10).
     
  29. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    CMM,
    Your position could still stand upon the truth, but the use to which you are putting Eph.5:9 is spurious.

    We're not free to apply Paul's use of his term "all" beyond the scope of his discourse. Does Paul have in mind the kind of universal inclusion (by his use of "all") that reaches backward and forward, from the primordial Garden into the future state? You have to interpret his meaning within his audience' frame of reference.

    I'm not convinced that what Paul intends to teach here is that the Spirit--from all and to all eternity--is the sole active energetic producer indwelling all creation for goodness, righteousness, and truth (for surely, this even further totalizes the expression; why stop with mankind?). If so, we seem to be heading for panenthiesm.

    Contrasted in the passage are the "unfruitful works of darkness," v11, with the fruit of v9. God's people are to "walk as children of light," v8, recognizing that such conversation is in any/every/all aspect of their experience as believers an effect of God in his light (by his Spirit). Another gloss for the word "all" in the verse could well be, "the fruit of the Spirit consists ONLY of goodness righteousness and truth," "all" here being adjectival of the entirety of that which he produces, i.e. "nothing but."

    Consider: the angels are righteous, produce good, speak truth, and are not Spirit-indwelt. The simple creation is (was made) good, animals behave themselves, but none is indwelt. Objective fact is truth, but it is not Spirit and divine.

    What would be the effect of a Spirit-indwelt, unfallen Adam? What is the gain? What is he able to do that is not possible if he is not under the direction of the Spirit? Is this the claim: that the indwelling of Christ proves that Adam was also (prior to sinning) indwelt by the Spirit? That would be an invalid conclusion, because Christ came "in the likeness of sinful flesh," Rom.8:3.

    Jesus acting (in one sense) in dependence upon the Spirit reflects the coming-back of man under the reign of God--as Israel, rebelled under Saul/man, came back under God's reign through David. The Spirit's generative act in Mary's womb means that there was never an instant in Jesus' life, clothed as he was in our corrupt flesh, when the life-giving Spirit was not answering and overcoming that corruption. Indwelling was required for Christ from conception to overthrow the works of the devil. It still comes through as a post-fall condition.
     
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  30. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    I was considering it as 1) fruit of the Spirit, of which any goodness, righteousness and truth is in estimation of God's character (i.e. his attributes as foundational) in contrast to fleshly and fallen works of darkness, where good fruit is accomplished only by the Spirit, (which both Adam and Christ could have done), and 2) as a result of Eph. 5:1, the context, being imitators of God as dear children, as Adam would have in his innocent state, and Christ properly as the Son in whom God is well pleased.

    It couldn't have anything to do with panentheism of any kind.

    I dont think we can take goodness, righteousness and truth out of the context of being imitators of God as dear children, not any righteous works, of any kind, out of the hands of the Spirit. Which, in my estimation would contradict Paul here, and Galatians 5.

    If one is uncomfortable in saying that Adam was not indwelt, and yet Christ was, which would seem inconsistent, for nowhere does Scripture say "Jesus was indwelt" but only given the Spirit without measure, then, comfortably say, "Adam was upheld" (following Perkins' explanation) which, at any rate, offers the same conclusion but with an air of mystery about it in relation to Adam...whatever "upheld" might mean (which would also apply to the angels in which God "upheld" in a state of innocence). For, in thinking about how indwelling, unction, anointing, etc., run synonymous in many ways, we must at least not say that Adam was left to himself to do anything righteously. For, when he was left to himself, as Perkins wells explains in his Golden Chain, Adam was "let go" by the Spirit and fell like a staff to the ground when he was left to himself.

    Adam lost the Spirit in the fall who "upheld" him for a certain length of time, and now, through Christ, the covenant of redemption works to gain back all those blessed effects, and much more in Christ, of that Spirit by his indwelling, through intercession of the Great High Priest now exalted, dare I say, again, through the faithful covenant work of the second Adam. Paradise lost, and then paradise regained, but much better.

    (Consider as a side note, the Spirit's work in "upholding" the angels is quite effective and assurefly powerful, in that, those angels "upheld" by God do not fall, nor ever will.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019

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