War on Drugs?

KMK

Administrator
Staff member
Another related question: how should the church combat legal drug abuse?
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
I used medical marijuana gummies to help me sleep despite severe chronic pain until I got my procedure. It was safer than opiods and less addictive and felt better than Benadryl, which essentially intoxicates you as well and makes you groggy until the next day. It was a great relief and my sleep was finally restorative. But the Church is imbalanced on this issue. They prefer synthetic addictive opiods which cause many deaths to a little THC or CBD oil which tends to sooth a person and mellows out their anxieties.

Good preaching might prioritize the national epidemic of obesity which causes many to have chronic pain because their frames can't handle all that fat, and then they get hooked on opiods due to the back pain caused by their gluttony. Surely this kills more and is a bigger sin than medical marijuana.
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
I used medical marijuana gummies to help me sleep despite severe chronic pain until I got my procedure. It was safer than opiods and less addictive and felt better than Benadryl, which essentially intoxicates you as well and makes you groggy until the next day. It was a great relief and my sleep was finally restorative. But the Church is imbalanced on this issue. They prefer synthetic addictive opiods which cause many deaths to a little THC or CBD oil which tends to sooth a person and mellows out their anxieties.

Good preaching might prioritize the national epidemic of obesity which causes many to have chronic pain because their frames can't handle all that fat, and then they get hooked on opiods due to the back pain caused by their gluttony. Surely this kills more and is a bigger sin than medical marijuana.
Yes, that's another issue: Christians overeating while making believe is no big deal and calling out other sins that apparently they think are worse. Food can get you high too and alter your mental state. Try driving after eating a whole pizza....ha.

The issue is about abuse and overly relying on food and drugs to alter your mood or state of mind. It's a hard Topic. but I pray that God would help all faithful ministers be ready and equiped to rightly deal with the matter.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Yes, that's another issue: Christians overeating while making believe is no big deal and calling out other sins that apparently they think are worse. Food can get you high too and alter your mental state. Try driving after eating a whole pizza....ha.

The issue is about abuse and overly relying on food and drugs to alter your mood or state of mind. It's a hard Topic. but I pray that God would help all faithful ministers be ready and equiped to rightly deal with the matter.
Yes. We all can self-medicate in our weakness. Even going to the gym and lifting can become a self-medication to save us from our pains. We can and should help to lighten our mood through all lawful secondary means. Exercise and good food and sunshine helps us cope. But so do drugs/medications/food/substances and this can hurt us long-term. We can pray and pray to help deliver us from grief, depression, anxiety, or any other mental anguish, but God gives us 2ndary means such as friends, food, wine, drugs, exercise, sunshine, nature, etc to help us cope and I cannot blame someone for trying to cope by using at least some of these means. In my youth I was more rigid, but now I have suffered severe pain for a long time and I am very forgiving of someone who uses medications/drugs/substances to lesson the pain. It can get severe at times and we just need a little rest. Oh dear God, every day was a trial and I found no rest even in my dreams until I wanted to die. I am thankful the procedure eased my pain and I can think clearly again.
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
Yes. We all can self-medicate in our weakness. Even going to the gym and lifting can become a self-medication to save us from our pains. We can and should help to lighten our mood through all lawful secondary means. Exercise and good food and sunshine helps us cope. But so do drugs/medications/food/substances and this can hurt us long-term. We can pray and pray to help deliver us from grief, depression, anxiety, or any other mental anguish, but God gives us 2ndary means such as friends, food, wine, drugs, exercise, sunshine, nature, etc to help us cope and I cannot blame someone for trying to cope by using at least some of these means. In my youth I was more rigid, but now I have suffered severe pain for a long time and I am very forgiving of someone who uses medications/drugs/substances to lesson the pain. It can get severe at times and we just need a little rest. Oh dear God, every day was a trial and I found no rest even in my dreams until I wanted to die. I am thankful the procedure eased my pain and I can think clearly again.
Yes, depression and pain are horrible. I've dealt with depression all my life and pain from time to time. Depression is tricky. Sometimes there is no explanation for it. I say this respectfully and reverantly, but good Christian counseling, others praying for you, friends and relationships do not always solve the issue. Sometimes, it's just the way a person is. Sadly, most people don't seem to realize that. I believe in the power of scripture and the Gospel to save and change and redirect a person's life. However, we are still affected by the fall and the body of death even after regeneration.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Yes, depression and pain are horrible. I've dealt with depression all my life and pain from time to time. Depression is tricky. Sometimes there is no explanation for it. I say this respectfully and reverantly, but good Christian counseling, others praying for you, friends and relationships do not always solve the issue. Sometimes, it's just the way a person is. Sadly, most people don't seem to realize that. I believe in the power of scripture and the Gospel to save and change and redirect a person's life. However, we are still affected by the fall and the body of death even after regeneration.
Yes, brother, amen. This creation is Fallen and life is painful at times...even much of the time for some. All seems vanity sometimes. Thank God, He is kind and does not abandon us at our worst.
 

OPC'n

Puritan Board Doctor
War on drugs... just say no....hasn’t really worked has it? I’m not against legalizing drugs. Just because they become legal doesn’t mean a whole load of non-users will suddenly start using them. Making them illegal doesn’t mean a whole load of users will stop using them. It’s a sin problem. Possibly making them legal will take the criminality out of them and decrease the crime rate the way it did with alcohol IDK. What we do know is that making them illegal hasn’t done a thing, education hasn’t done a thing, and building more prisons for the sellers and users hasn’t done a thing. Only one remedy for drugs and that’s the Gospel. Maybe the church should start spreading the Good News if we want to see a change in this and a multitude of other sins.
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
War on drugs... just say no....hasn’t really worked has it? I’m not against legalizing drugs. Just because they become legal doesn’t mean a whole load of non-users will suddenly start using them. Making them illegal doesn’t mean a whole load of users will stop using them. It’s a sin problem. Possibly making them legal will take the criminality out of them and decrease the crime rate the way it did with alcohol IDK. What we do know is that making them illegal hasn’t done a thing, education hasn’t done a thing, and building more prisons for the sellers and users hasn’t done a thing. Only one remedy for drugs and that’s the Gospel. Maybe the church should start spreading the Good News if we want to see a change in this and a multitude of other sins.
Well, If I remember correctly, the old testament nation of Israel had no prisons. They dealt with criminals and those who could not be rehabilitated in a different way. Not advocating theonomy but maybe we should take a closer look at it....ha.
 

Andrew35

Puritan Board Sophomore
Well, If I remember correctly, the old testament nation of Israel had no prisons. They dealt with criminals and those who could not be rehabilitated in a different way. Not advocating theonomy but maybe we should take a closer look at it....ha.
One doesn't have to be a theonomist to observe that the modern incarceration system, like the modern public education system, is an experiment in abject failure.
 

Elizabeth

Puritan Board Sophomore
This creation is Fallen and life is painful at times...even much of the time for some. All seems vanity sometimes. Thank God, He is kind and does not abandon us at our worst.

And here is the crux of the matter. We steep in the belief (esp in America) that life should be grand, painless and easy. And it isn't for anyone, for long. Medications are sometimes necessary, for sure. But also we need to see this world rightly, as a place of enemy territory, so to speak.

We'd be a lot less miserable if we expected difficulty, hardship and loss. We'd be a lot more grateful for the good, too.

Our minds have been so warped by our materialism (in all senses). Trying to make this place our 'continuing city' leads to all sorts manifestations of need and greed and consequent pain.
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
One doesn't have to be a theonomist to observe that the modern incarceration system, like the modern public education system, is an experiment in abject failure.
I know a lot people hate it or get worked up when the topic comes....just saying. That's all.
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
And here is the crux of the matter. We steep in the belief (esp in America) that life should be grand, painless and easy. And it isn't for anyone, for long. Medications are sometimes necessary, for sure. But also we need to see this world rightly, as a place of enemy territory, so to speak.

We'd be a lot less miserable if we expected difficulty, hardship and loss. We'd be a lot more grateful for the good, too.

Our minds have been so warped by our materialism (in all senses). Trying to make this place our 'continuing city' leads to all sorts manifestations of need and greed and consequent pain.
Well, I know some have thought that America was the city on the hill or the new heavens and earth. I Can't remember but I think that columbus or the puritan settlers believed that....ha.
 

Susan777

Puritan Board Sophomore
to a little THC or CBD oil which tends to sooth a person and mellows out their anxieties.
Ooops! Not so fast! I’m not questioning the legality or even the morality of marijuana use (although I tend to agree with Jerusalem Blade). I’m only wanting to point out that it is not as benign as some people claim. Back in the day I used it but had to stop due to the experience of paranoia. I never missed it or gave it much thought til about 50 years later when reports of delusional paranoia and even schizophrenic states were reported among teens needing ER intervention. Maybe this is partly because THC is so much more potent now compared to the stuff around 50 years ago. I don’t know but I have read credible sources that say that a small percentage of people, I’ve heard 10%, have dysphoric reactions that can be clinically significant.

There’s a huge pro cannabis lobby now and the growing and selling of the plant and its synthetic children has been almost completely corporatized. I expect what little opposition or concern remainI guess will eventually dissipate. It’s negative effects including amotivational syndrome, lowered sperm counts, depression, habituated use, are rarely discussed nowadays.

I agree that simple possession and personal use should have never been criminalized. Much injustice has resulted.
Most people seem to find it pleasant and helpful, but I would never recommend it and I’m so glad my pastor doesn’t get high.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Ooops! Not so fast! I’m not questioning the legality or even the morality of marijuana use (although I tend to agree with Jerusalem Blade). I’m only wanting to point out that it is not as benign as some people claim. Back in the day I used it but had to stop due to the experience of paranoia. I never missed it or gave it much thought til about 50 years later when reports of delusional paranoia and even schizophrenic states were reported among teens needing ER intervention. Maybe this is partly because THC is so much more potent now compared to the stuff around 50 years ago. I don’t know but I have read credible sources that say that a small percentage of people, I’ve heard 10%, have dysphoric reactions that can be clinically significant.

There’s a huge pro cannabis lobby now and the growing and selling of the plant and its synthetic children has been almost completely corporatized. I expect what little opposition or concern remainI guess will eventually dissipate. It’s negative effects including amotivational syndrome, lowered sperm counts, depression, habituated use, are rarely discussed nowadays.

I agree that simple possession and personal use should have never been criminalized. Much injustice has resulted.
Most people seem to find it pleasant and helpful, but I would never recommend it and I’m so glad my pastor doesn’t get high.
Define "high" - there are millions in the US that pop an opiod and sleeping pills at night to sleep. Millions are also on mood-altering meds for depression and anxiety. This is essentially getting high or altering one's mind; suppressing one's system so that they can sleep or not dwell on their depression. Unless we argue that all forms of sedation for sleeping and all forms of mind-alteration through medication are sinful, then I see no problem with using gummies to help one sleep. They have worked it out so that there are no paranoid effects, and the "amotivational syndrome" is precisely why one takes it at night to sleep. Just as cowboys are not sinning if they get a guy drunk before pulling out a bullet when they lack other medicines, the use of marijuana at night to combat severe insomnia is a legitimate use of the substance. With the acceptance of cannabis, there is increased chance of folks improving the formula and making it even more useful for a variety of ailments.
 

Susan777

Puritan Board Sophomore
Unless we argue that all forms of sedation for sleeping and all forms of mind-alteration through medication are sinful, then I see no problem with using gummies to help one sleep.
False dilemma, it’s not either/or. It’s about evaluating each situation/substance on its own merits. And if you like your gummies, you can keep your gummies.;) Your argument seems to boil down to: lotsa people take lotsa stuff so don’t pick on THC. Okay I won’t. I’ve found that it’s hard to have a reasonable discussion with people who are passionate in defending their marijuana use in whatever form they prefer. So enjoy.
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
Ooops! Not so fast! I’m not questioning the legality or even the morality of marijuana use (although I tend to agree with Jerusalem Blade). I’m only wanting to point out that it is not as benign as some people claim. Back in the day I used it but had to stop due to the experience of paranoia. I never missed it or gave it much thought til about 50 years later when reports of delusional paranoia and even schizophrenic states were reported among teens needing ER intervention. Maybe this is partly because THC is so much more potent now compared to the stuff around 50 years ago. I don’t know but I have read credible sources that say that a small percentage of people, I’ve heard 10%, have dysphoric reactions that can be clinically significant.

There’s a huge pro cannabis lobby now and the growing and selling of the plant and its synthetic children has been almost completely corporatized. I expect what little opposition or concern remainI guess will eventually dissipate. It’s negative effects including amotivational syndrome, lowered sperm counts, depression, habituated use, are rarely discussed nowadays.

I agree that simple possession and personal use should have never been criminalized. Much injustice has resulted.
Most people seem to find it pleasant and helpful, but I would never recommend it and I’m so glad my pastor doesn’t high
Well, God had to put it on earth for a reason....ha
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
False dilemma, it’s not either/or. It’s about evaluating each situation/substance on its own merits. And if you like your gummies, you can keep your gummies.;) Your argument seems to boil down to: lotsa people take lotsa stuff so don’t pick on THC. Okay I won’t. I’ve found that it’s hard to have a reasonable discussion with people who are passionate in defending their marijuana use in whatever form they prefer. So enjoy.
Among drugs which mellow and sedate, I do not see a spectrum of morality. I was anti-cannabis for a long time. But then I saw the opiod epidemic in America and it makes it hard to pick on cannabis while millions over-consume opiods. If you licked a frog and it helped you sleep and was non-addictive, I'd be supportive of Sleep Frogs for everybody who struggled with severe insomnia.

Your point is true that we must judge each substance. A few hard drugs seem to make people violent (we've probably all seen footage of folks on PCP or Angel Dust attack police or, in one case, eat a person's face off while high), so some substances due seem to stir up sinful effects. And laziness is sinful and pot seems to make folks lazy... But for a person who can lay for 10 hours in bed without a wink of sleep, I'd like to be lazy long enough to get restorative sleep. A doc prescribed xanax which is addictive and another prescribed a med which caused heart palpitations. So gummies work better.

When it comes to medications for health/medical purposes, I think we need to carefully define the term "being high" since millions take drugs with sedative effects to help their health (sleep is restorative, after all, and if you don't sleep all systems in your body start falling apart). Nobody condemns a dental patient for 'getting high" to ease the pain. Few charge the person who pops 4 Benadryl of being a druggie even though these cause heavy sedation in high doses. And so gummies should fit into the same category, but is still stigmatized even today.

True story: I have an older pastor mentor who struggles with health problems. He will not drink an ounce of alcohol and is a strict teetotaller. But the old guy pops so many hard meds that his pills would sedate an elephant. He spends much of every day "high" (sedated), even in the pulpit at times to handle his pain. And yet he would probably condemn me for taking a gummy to sleep.
 

Minh

Puritan Board Freshman
An interesting approach by Portugal: decriminalizing drugs.

"...Portugal became the first country to decriminalise the possession and consumption of all illicit substances. Rather than being arrested, those caught with a personal supply might be given a warning, a small fine, or told to appear before a local commission – a doctor, a lawyer and a social worker – about treatment, harm reduction, and the support services that were available to them." (reference).
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
Among drugs which mellow and sedate, I do not see a spectrum of morality. I was anti-cannabis for a long time. But then I saw the opiod epidemic in America and it makes it hard to pick on cannabis while millions over-consume opiods. If you licked a frog and it helped you sleep and was non-addictive, I'd be supportive of Sleep Frogs for everybody who struggled with severe insomnia.

Your point is true that we must judge each substance. A few hard drugs seem to make people violent (we've probably all seen footage of folks on PCP or Angel Dust attack police or, in one case, eat a person's face off while high), so some substances due seem to stir up sinful effects. And laziness is sinful and pot seems to make folks lazy... But for a person who can lay for 10 hours in bed without a wink of sleep, I'd like to be lazy long enough to get restorative sleep. A doc prescribed xanax which is addictive and another prescribed a med which caused heart palpitations. So gummies work better.

When it comes to medications for health/medical purposes, I think we need to carefully define the term "being high" since millions take drugs with sedative effects to help their health (sleep is restorative, after all, and if you don't sleep all systems in your body start falling apart). Nobody condemns a dental patient for 'getting high" to ease the pain. Few charge the person who pops 4 Benadryl of being a druggie even though these cause heavy sedation in high doses. And so gummies should fit into the same category, but is still stigmatized even today.

True story: I have an older pastor mentor who struggles with health problems. He will not drink an ounce of alcohol and is a strict teetotaller. But the old guy pops so many hard meds that his pills would sedate an elephant. He spends much of every day "high" (sedated), even in the pulpit at times to handle his pain. And yet he would probably condemn me for taking a gummy to slee

Appearing before lawyers and social workers is worse than prison.
Prisons are torture chambers. Horrible, horrible places..
 

Romans830

Puritan Board Freshman
Among drugs which mellow and sedate, I do not see a spectrum of morality. I was anti-cannabis for a long time. But then I saw the opiod epidemic in America and it makes it hard to pick on cannabis while millions over-consume opiods. If you licked a frog and it helped you sleep and was non-addictive, I'd be supportive of Sleep Frogs for everybody who struggled with severe insomnia.

Your point is true that we must judge each substance. A few hard drugs seem to make people violent (we've probably all seen footage of folks on PCP or Angel Dust attack police or, in one case, eat a person's face off while high), so some substances due seem to stir up sinful effects. And laziness is sinful and pot seems to make folks lazy... But for a person who can lay for 10 hours in bed without a wink of sleep, I'd like to be lazy long enough to get restorative sleep. A doc prescribed xanax which is addictive and another prescribed a med which caused heart palpitations. So gummies work better.

When it comes to medications for health/medical purposes, I think we need to carefully define the term "being high" since millions take drugs with sedative effects to help their health (sleep is restorative, after all, and if you don't sleep all systems in your body start falling apart). Nobody condemns a dental patient for 'getting high" to ease the pain. Few charge the person who pops 4 Benadryl of being a druggie even though these cause heavy sedation in high doses. And so gummies should fit into the same category, but is still stigmatized even today.

True story: I have an older pastor mentor who struggles with health problems. He will not drink an ounce of alcohol and is a strict teetotaller. But the old guy pops so many hard meds that his pills would sedate an elephant. He spends much of every day "high" (sedated), even in the pulpit at times to handle his pain. And yet he would probably condemn me for taking a gummy to sleep.
High in the pulpit... hysterical.
 
Top