Video Games rethinking

[bobtheman]

I read a few threads out of curiosity, searching for thoughts on the matter regarding videos games and how it relates to a Christians life.

I saw two overall themes.

1. The prior discussions referred to video games as being unproductive as it allows individuals to sort of isolate themselves from society, and becomes something people do other than serving the church.

2. The content of which the video games represent is more important when judging if Christians should play video games instead of the medium. IE: Video games is no less or more sinful than other forms of entertainment.



So, I Have to important questions for us to ponder with both of these two main points. Lets start with number 1: social engagement.


1. Since video games over the past four or so years have largely moved into an interactive, social context -- where everything is online, Every game (almost) has online communications, video communications, actual physical movement being incorporated into the games themselves, the ability to play with friends and family, etc - can we now disregard the isolationist rhetoric that was apparent in prior conversations? Now, are video games as socially engaging as playing a board game, watching television with friends, going to the movies, or playing actual football?


Point 2: Content

2. I wont dispute that a lot of the content in the games are harsh. Language particularly - however I've noticed some games are including language filters now. But lets think about the "violent" games such as Call of Duty. Is there anything in such video games that are more or less sinful due to this portrayal of death than reenactments of war's, movies revisiting war, or war itself? Statues depicting moments in war that are on the same scale of brutality, paintings depicting the same ... is there a double standard?

 

[Pergamum]

I let my son play the Total War series because it shows history and how armies fought in the past. Play while learning. He can refight the battles of Napoleon and knows how medieval heavy cavalry fought. We also have a civil war strategy game (Gettysburg) and that helps him understand how civil war units fought.

War is not necessarily evil. I suppose a case could be made that we should not enjoy any simulation of warfare since warfare involves killing, but then chess is also out.

 

[Jerusalem Blade]

Bob, this is a story from a book I'm writing:

__________


VISIONARY ADVENTURE IN WORLDS VIRTUAL AND ACTUAL

The Game-Master

He was a warrior in his own right. A master of strategy, and of the fatal shot, stroke, or thrust, he knew the love of war-craft, and of the yearning to be indomitable that drove the hearts of the vast multitudes of us he mentored by his imparted intelligence.

He was hidden from us — he did not want to reveal himself — and none of us knew his features, for he stayed in the shadows, but his power and brilliance we inferred from the might of his students, and the exercises they presented to us in the war games. The war games!

They were of all sorts: in realms of the occult, amid the vilest and most violent Hell-spawn, of mad and youthful skilled samurai versus hordes of brute men, beasts, and lethal practitioners of monstrous powers, of space adventure and science fiction in unknown worlds against unpredictable alien entities, of modern soldiery with conventional weapons, and on and on — limited only by the imaginations and skills of the true artists and technical wizards in his employ.

The weapons he gave us were wondrous to behold! And the weapons against us! These would try what we were made of, and generations of us sought the mastery in combat with weapons and powers undreamt of only decades earlier, or so it seemed to us.

A few years into the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century he had conquered the minds — won the love — of millions of earth’s youths, and multitudes no longer youths. From South Korea and Japan — among the leading nations in high-speed internet / information transfer — to the West, to Africa, South America, Australia, and the whole small planet ‘round, we had become a global arena of consciousness, and the portals to this virtual world were our various screens, more real and significant to us than our off-line lives! Did not “reality” pale before the realms given us by the mysterious game master?

One day a new breed of weapons-master, his nom de guerre, War Crown, challenged the hidden prince and his world domain. He said the screens through which his legions entered the virtual world — and the power-sources by which they moved — were antiques and toys! And further: he said the virtual world, real enough when actual, was being made effete by fantasies that obscured the true combat.

War Crown issued a challenge, and sent it forth into the web, charged with the vision of a mortal combat which carried over beyond the life and death of this present level and into the regions beyond. And this was itself a weapon, what he called a “psychic depth-charge” cast into the great ocean of collective consciousness.

And this was part of the vision the weapon contained:

The Field of Action is not a screen or virtual reality, but consciousness itself. The arena of play is one’s full perceptual field, and this field can be synchronized with the perceptual fields of others, and these in turn are aware in the Global Arena of Consciousness, which is accessible both off-line and on-line. The primary objective of the game is to have one’s Player — one’s self — revitalized so that the death of the body that functions on this level does not destroy the Player. This can only be done by union with the Elder Brother, who imparts life that goes beyond the basic level. To have the body die without this extended life is to have the Player enter the Region of Perpetual Destruction. The Adversaries the Player must contend with come from this region and, more often than not, are able to destroy the Players they attack.

The game, called simply Salvation, is never turned off, and, waking or sleeping, on-line or off-line, the Player is always on the Field of Action and is always vulnerable. Nor is there any hiding in the great Global Arena; even if one seeks to be disconnected, the events that happen thereon affect all lives; and Adversaries love to destroy “lone wolves,” especially those who think themselves master players.

I, War Crown, say that the “games” of the Game-Master are in truth weapons designed to dull the general consciousness of a Player while simultaneously bringing the Player’s awareness into sharp focus deeply involved in a counterfeit combat, detracting from the actual events taking place in that one’s consciousness, and that through this distraction the Adversaries dull and ensnare many Players, while allowing them to think they are mastering weapons and strategies.

The game of Salvation is simple, and of profound depth. As it is the Elder Brother who imparts what is necessary to play the game successfully, it is imperative to learn of him, and what he requires. He gives all the weapons, and many gifts that enhance the Players’ lives.

There are other objectives as well: protecting the Players in one’s Community, for it is a closely-knit team endeavor, as the skill and power of the Adversaries are too great for isolated combatants, though often one may find oneself alone — save for the constant companionship of the Elder — in solitary laboring and standing against assaults. There are territories to conquer, so as to free captives taken at will by the powerful Adversaries; there are strategic positions to be taken and held, so as to utilize the weapons at maximum effect. There is the establishing and fortifying of protective communities to nurture and strengthen those persons — now fellow-Players — rescued from the grip of the Adversaries. And there are other objectives, too numerous to mention here.

Although simple, Salvation encompasses vast complexity; depending on the maturity of the Player, one may with great peace and joy be supervising and supporting very difficult and far-flung operations.

The following is a short meditation in the Old Language I saw posted in the Arena of Consciousness where combatants from around the globe gather, and I keep it to show my friends:


​

Samurai of the Almighty

​

The modern warrior in reality is not the martial arts and weapons master of popular story, but the one who walks so as to give no inward place to the Devil, who walks humbly and meekly before God and man, yet has the authority and the power to lay waste demonic strongholds. The modern warrior's rule is purity of heart, simplicity of life, and the presence of God. Such a one can call on the Almighty, and is His samurai in the nether realms, wielding a lightning sword, the sword of the Spirit.​

The Elder issues the finest weapons this — and any — world has ever seen: swords, shields, armor, war-hammers, and various kinds of explosives and incendiary devices. There is also a weapon known as the word of power. These are essentially weapons-of-consciousness to be used against the Adversaries and their allies, and are not physical weapons. For example, the Light Sabers of the Jedi, or Excalibur of Arthur, or Frodo’s elvish blade Sting, are poor mirage images of the swords the Elder issues. And while the computer-game swords (and other weapons) are sometimes wondrous to behold, they are, after all, fiction. Not so with the weapons of the Elder: they are actual.

What is the state of your consciousness? Are you as though asleep? Are you aware of your Adversaries? Are you aware of the Elder Brother? Are you weaponless, armorless, without life for the next level, ripe for destruction?

I, War Crown, challenge you, Game-Master, to come out of the shadows in which you lurk, and to show your face. Let us see your skill in the Global Arena of Consciousness, and with weapons that are actual and endued with power. But you will not show your face, as we could then tell what manner of entity you are, for you are of the Destroyers, and there are no beasts or monsters in your file of phantasms that hold a candle to your malign and horrific features, and your evil intent. The Elder who is the life within my own life has power greater by far than you and your lord possess, and your dooms are certain.

Game Players, throw off the delusion that you are mastering combats, while on the actual Field of Play you are lured into trifles and dalliances, your Day-Counter and Energy-Supply slowly diminishing. Do Adversaries dance around your slumbering awareness, while you think you are mastering weapons? Awake!​

This was the first of the depth-charges War Crown tossed into the great ocean of awareness.

______________

Virtual Lives

As War Crown was pondering developments in the Global Arena of Consciousness, he considered those who lived more in virtual worlds having no correspondence with the actual world, whose hearts were invested — and whose loves, hates, joys, sorrows, triumphs, and ruinations were actualized — in their virtual lives.

There were some — one thinks of Players in the World of Warcraft realm — whose virtual lives were full and rich, while their actual lives were impoverished and unsatisfying. This was not always the case, but it makes the point that sometimes actual life could rise up and devour a virtual life so that both were destroyed. This was part of the vision shown in “The Game-Master.”

In the game Salvation there was a similar phenomena: in one’s life in the arena of consciousness one might have great power and wondrous gifts, be possessed of weaponry and armor forged in off-world — but actual — furnaces, and which showed the weapons of earth’s legends tawdry in their light, while these Players’ actual lives might likewise be impoverished and even entail great suffering. Though it could not be said of them their lives were “unsatisfying,” for Salvation Players rejoiced in their lots. They rarely had virtual lives which were disparate from their actual lives, although there was no law or rule prohibiting such; it was simply a paler and less rich activity when divorced from the actual.

Whatever condition the Elder sees fit for his Players to be in in their lives on this level (for he is into developing their characters as well as their skills), they learn to rejoice therein, be it poverty, prison, or delivered to death. Death is nothing to them — or next-to-nothing — as to leave the body that functions on this level is to be with the Elder on the level Players from ancient days called the Celestial City. And there will come a day when the Elder and his wonderful Father give us our bodies back, gloriously renewed on a new earth.

Virtual lives, apart from our actual lives, if highly developed, drain energy and intelligence needed to survive the onslaughts of the Adversaries, who pervade the regions of consciousness in this level. They are a distraction; although, sometimes, distractions may be a happy recreation. There is a rule, and that is: moderation is generally wise.

 

[Username3000]

I am 27 years old, and have therefore grown up with video games. I played them mostly in my later teens and early twenties, but as I grew up, and especially since I became a Christian, my desire to play then has waned. I couldn't tell you the last time I played a video game.

I find it hard to comment on the social aspect of your question, as the only social experience I have had with video games is getting together with friends and acting like little kids when we should have already been men. Those are years that I will never get back; I should be so much more mature and so much manlier, in the Biblical sense, than I am right now. This has an effect on my marriage, and will have an affect on my children as well, if I am blessed to have any.

With regards to the content, there is obviously a very wide array of game types. Yet, it seems as though the vast majority of games for boys are ones in which you kill. They aren't comparable to war paintings or monuments; you are the one stalking, pulling the trigger, and celebrating as you see a man's lifeblood gush out of him. I was just recently watching a video of Paul Washer teaching, and he was talking about this, and how he has personally had to jam towels into a man whose chest was blown out through his back in an attempt to stop the bleeding, and how the police had to beat his arms in order for him to be able to let go of the man because he had locked on to him so hard in trying to save his life, and that every time he thinks about it now he wants to throw up. That is real life. Think about that, and then think about how a video game makes killing a man a fun thing. These games, as well as movies and television, chip away at the value we give to human life. I don't even play them anymore or watch TV, and still I am relatively unaffected when I hear of human death. That isn't right.

I'm sure an argument can be made for the allowance of video games within our Christian freedom, or for the dexterity or learning benefits one may receive from playing them. But I would rather bless my (Lord willing, future)son with manual dexterity developed from learning useful life skills, and knowledge via the methods tested and proven by my forefathers.

In my opinion, a man's life is too short, and the stakes too high, to be satisfied with videos games. The world absolutely loves them for a reason, and I don't think it is a godly one.

I want to finish by saying that I still don't think they are absolutely sinful across the board, and I don't want to be attacking brothers who have a different view than I do. Obviously, I feel strongly about this issue, and I just wanted to get that across.

 

[nick]

1. The "isolation" issue is still there despite people interacting with other people. In most cases they only know these people digitally and usually not on a personal level. It is more akin to interacting with a very sophisticated form of AI than a real person. Most games pair people up randomly and there may or may not be a way to communicate to the other people.

2. I think we have numbed ourselves as a society to some of the worse things in this life. Video games have surely had a part in that, but can't take all of the blame.

----

I like multiplayer games the whole family can enjoy. My wife and I will play 4-player Mario with our two oldest. It is a lot of fun. Probably closer to an interactive board game, but with more teamwork than competition. There is not a lot of solo game playing, but if there is, it is used in place of some other entertainment we might have taken part in (i.e. watching a movie).

It is something I keep in check just like all entertainments. I move the TV out for weeks or months at a time. I delete apps/block websites on my iPhone (Facebook, Twitter, etc). Remove all toys the kiddos are playing with. I even block the PB Anything that I see as becoming a time-suck, I try to take a break from.

I and all of my family members have responsibilities. If something is hindering taking care of those, I want to remove it.

 

[Warren]

Wow JB, that's an interesting allegory you've written!

Video games used to be a priority of mine. Games were where I found a lot of positive (I don't mean fluffy "positive", but incrementally challenging and rewarding) play, which I didn't find in church or school circles. I loved games because they seemed to love me back.

As I took on jobs and my days filled with work, I just left games behind me. I don't think they're inherently anti-social, but like anything indifferent - like this internet forum - it shouldn't be my only help nor a priority above parent-child and spousal relationships... God doesn't command us to play and be "fun", but he does command us to work, honor parents, cling to spouses, and meditate on his Word.

Absent parents, ungodly churches, and vainglorious knowledge do far more spiritual harm than Grand Theft Auto, Elder Scrolls, and Call of Doody ever will.

 

[Reformed Fox]

I honestly think video games are not radically different from any other activity. Reading is considered good, but I can easily sit by myself, isolated from others reading lewd anti-Christian material. Almost anything indulged in excess or in an inappropriate manner is bad. The only quality of video games I see as being anything close to unique is the interactive aspect, but this does not really seem to be a net benefit or loss in and of itself. Most of my reading of the Bible occurs in isolation but nobody ever thinks that I am becoming an intolerant zealot because of it.

My experience is that one's predisposition matters more than the games themselves. Both Klebold and I were big "Doom" fans, a game filled with violence and satanic imagery. He shot up a school and I was completely unaffected. I imagine that he would have found another outlet. Video games versus other activities reminds me of the gun debate. If a murdered uses a knife, rope, poison, hands, ect. society says "You are a terrible person" whereas if the murderer uses a gun society says "We need to do something about gun culture". Video games strike me as similar, but unlike guns, which are designed to kill, video games are far more versatile. Some games, such as the system used by Duolingo incentivize learning and information retention.

It strikes me that yes, there is a massive double standard that cannot actually be justified.

 

[Afterthought]

Now, are video games as socially engaging as playing a board game, watching television with friends, going to the movies, or playing actual football?

Some are that sociable, but some are not. As noted by another, the ones with online communication do not really foster that sense of sociability; at the end of the day, the gamer is still as friendless as before with no progress made in real, living relationships. The games that friends and family can play (sometimes, even if played at a distance online) do tend to be sociable.

But lets think about the "violent" games such as Call of Duty. Is there anything in such video games that are more or less sinful due to this portrayal of death than reenactments of war's, movies revisiting war, or war itself? Statues depicting moments in war that are on the same scale of brutality, paintings depicting the same ... is there a double standard?

Why assume that such movies, reenactments, and statues are legitimate? Maybe the double standard means we should lose these? David says that he will set no wicked thing before his eyes, and we see that the fear of the Lord is to hate evil. Is there justification for Christians to entertain themselves with sin? One difference between movies and violent games is the conscious choice made by the gamer to do violence, whereas it is a passive experience when watching a movie. It could be argued that one should not watch actors who have to pretend to do evil; it could also be replied that the video game evil is actually done, only it is done in a game world, while the actors never actually do the evil they pretend to do.

There is also the consideration of chance involved in video games. Is the chance such that it is an unlawful use of lots? There was a helpful thread that linked to an historical work surveying views on games of chance in which Thomas Gataker was especially mentioned.

I'm not arguing one way or the other. I'm just bringing up some points that ought to be considered. With movies/stage plays at least, some of these arguments have been used in the past and present to abstain entirely from them. See previous threads dealing with stage plays. The comparison of violent video games with chess is intriguing, but while I have difficulty finding the distinction, surely it seems there is a difference?

There is definitely a concern for desensitization. My parents would not let me play the violent or "horror" video games when I was growing up in part for that reason (Age of Empires was considered fine).

 

[Reformed Fox]

For anyone feeling uncomfortable, I would like to offer video games in their best light and hear your opinions.

There is a free program called Duolingo which allows one to learn foreign languages. (I use it myself.) Strictly speaking there is an element of chance given that one never knows exactly what words or concepts will be tested in a given session (much like flashcards). There are mechanics designed to incentivize progress such as a reward system and a digital currency (which has no practical purpose even though it exists). Even though there is a large online community build around language learning with Duolingo every actual session is played / learned individually.

Can we reasonably condemn such an experience? If so, what else must we condemn?

Now, what if a seminary developed a near identical product but instead of Spanish and German, taught Biblical Hebrew, Koine Greek, Syriac, and Latin? Would we condemn that?

 

[Logan]

I actually view them as an art form, and appreciate certain ones for their ability to explore various emotions, set challenges, tell an engaging story, paint an amazing landscape, etc. My wife and I have also found a couple that we play together (so far, trying to cooperate on these has almost been one of the biggest challenges in our marriage!) while I just set up a computer for the kids to learn basic skills like mouse control, keyboard layout and basic math/physics. They can be very helpful and enjoyable in moderation. They are an expression of the creativity God has given man, just as any art form.

There seems to be an inherent bias against video games by a lot of folks, but I think to be consistent you should also evaluate TV, movies, fictional (and non-fictional) books, sports (big one for a lot of people!), and even news consumption. All of which have the potential to be unprofitable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MW]

It is good to rethink video games while one still has the quality of mind to do so. Let the mind be better occupied and its capabilities will be better appreciated.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

When I read these types of discussions I am reminded of John "Rabbi" Duncan's comment that we should have a long creed for ourselves, and a short creed for others. I think most of the anomisty towards video games comes from people who used to play them as youngsters, but then lost interest as they got older. I fall into this category, possibly because it all went down-hill after the Sega Megadrive (or Sega Genesis in the USA). Joking aside, I see nothing inherently wrong with the concept of such games. The long and the short of it is that our hobbies, whatever they may be, should not consume us. Video games have the potential to consume those who use them, but then so does every other hobby,

 

[johnny]

For anyone feeling uncomfortable, I would like to offer video games in their best light and hear your opinions.

There is a free program called Duolingo which allows one to learn foreign languages. (I use it myself.) Strictly speaking there is an element of chance given that one never knows exactly what words or concepts will be tested in a given session (much like flashcards). There are mechanics designed to incentivize progress such as a reward system and a digital currency (which has no practical purpose even though it exists). Even though there is a large online community build around language learning with Duolingo every actual session is played / learned individually.

Can we reasonably condemn such an experience? If so, what else must we condemn?

Now, what if a seminary developed a near identical product but instead of Spanish and German, taught Biblical Hebrew, Koine Greek, Syriac, and Latin? Would we condemn that?

How about Memrise? its awesome,,,

 

[RamistThomist]

Civilization IV is a great strategy game, plus you end up learning lots of history and cool quotes by the hundreds from historical figures. The only down side is it is a time-black hole.