Vaccinations

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jwithnell said:
The original "peer reviewed" article was retracted and was based on a handful of families and a doctor who were already against vaccinations.
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This is where the whole "anti-vaxxer" thing got started. This article turned out to be completely bogus. In the end, that article's author caused him to have his license revoked so that he was legally unable to practice medicine in Britain, if memory serves. Also, the article was taken down from the journal's website.

If I remember rightly, it was announced back in 2000 or so that smallpox was now pretty much eradicated. Well, thanks to the anti-vaxxers, it might be on the way back now. What's next, polio?

Sometimes, flu vaccines seem ineffective because scientists aren't quite sure which version of the flu will appear in any given year. (They tend to watch Australia to see how bad a flu season might be.) This is why some people still get the flu even after they get the flu shot.

In any case, vaccinations have saved countless lives over the years.

Ignore the conspiracy nuts - get you and your children vaccinated!
 
bookslover said:
This is where the whole "anti-vaxxer" thing got started. This article turned out to be completely bogus. In the end, that article's author caused him to have his license revoked so that he was legally unable to practice medicine in Britain, if memory serves. Also, the article was taken down from the journal's website.

If I remember rightly, it was announced back in 2000 or so that smallpox was now pretty much eradicated. Well, thanks to the anti-vaxxers, it might be on the way back now. What's next, polio?

Sometimes, flu vaccines seem ineffective because scientists aren't quite sure which version of the flu will appear in any given year. (They tend to watch Australia to see how bad a flu season might be.) This is why some people still get the flu even after they get the flu shot.

In any case, vaccinations have saved countless lives over the years.

Ignore the conspiracy nuts - get you and your children vaccinated!
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Measles. Measles is making a big comeback globally. My kids--who were too young to be vaccinated at the time--were exposed to it through a US family whose kids had it because they weren't vaccinated. Mine didn't catch it, but they were exposed. Somehow that seemed kind of selfish to me.

Yeah... I researched the flu shots, and the effectiveness rates just didn't seem justifiable for the fuss to me. 19-50% most years? Forget it. We'll take our chances.

Btw, the evidence is getting pretty strong that an insufficient diversity of gut bacteria may play a role in autism. The evidence is a whole lot stronger than the vaccination claim.
 
This is relevant to me as my wife is about halfway to our first....

This was so much easier when I was a baby....my parents vaccinated me and I had no say in the matter :p
 
KMK said:
I am also skeptical. Do you have names of actual MDs and published academic articles?
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There won’t be any published academic articles. As in anthropogenic global warming, “the science is settled”. ;);)
 
KMK said:
Do you have names of actual MDs and published academic articles?
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So there are articles from a few scientists that can be found at the following web address. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

Here is an example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12849883

One thing to note is that the most positive studies in the above that indicate vaccines cause autism are from scientific professionals who have been ostracized in the scientific community (ie. not considered scientists). Most scientific research comes from donations from large pharma companies who have a interest in keeping vaccines on the market.

Interesting Research:

  • Compare Autism occurrence in relation to vaccine requirements from the first diagnosis in 1943 through today and you will find dramatic increases.
 
Nick Muyres said:
Sherri Tenpenny is an American osteopathic physician
Suzanna Humphries is a board-certified Medical Doctor
Russell Blaylock is a retired neurosurgeon
Tedd Koren is a Doctor of Chiropractic
Robert Sears is a Physician
Michael Farley is a naturopathic doctor
Robert Owen is a medical doctor
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I'll reject the natruopath and the Chiropractor out of hand. I'll look at the qualifications of the other 5.
 
Nate said:
Could you briefly interpret this article for me?
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First off I am not a doctor or scientist so I could be interrupting this incorrectly. The parallel here is that it appears that for some children the measles virus can trigger an autoimmune response that causes symptoms similar to autism. In other words, the MMR vaccine injects antibodies of the vacccine which can trigger an autoimmune response that triggers autism like symptoms. Its common for some auto-immune diseases to stay dormant in ones body and will only become active when triggered by some event. The MMR vaccine could trigger this response along with getting sick in general.
 
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Thanks for the quick response.

RobertPGH1981 said:
The parallel here is that it appears that for some children the measles virus can trigger an autoimmune response that causes symptoms similar to autism.
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It seems the authors (in this paper and several other papers) have hypothesized that this is a potential mechanism for the development of autism-like symptoms. They are quite clear in the paper that this is just an idea, and not something that they or others have proven by any means.

RobertPGH1981 said:
In other words, the MMR vaccine injects antibodies of the vacccine which can trigger an autoimmune response that triggers autism like symptoms.
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Again, the authors say that their data raise the possibility that, because they have an idea that maybe MMR itself might induce ASD-like symptoms, it might also be possible that an MMR vaccine could also do this. However, if you read the paper, the authors are careful to state that their experiment lacks the actual controls or experimental approaches that would lend support to these ideas.

RobertPGH1981 said:
Its common for some auto-immune diseases to stay dormant in ones body and will only become active when triggered by some event. The MMR vaccine could trigger this response along with get sick in general.
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Yes, this is kind of what their original hypothesis states, but again, the authors are careful to say that they have not provided data to support this hypothesis, much less prove the hypothesis.
 
Nate said:
They are quite clear in the paper that this is just an idea, and not something that they or others have proven by any means.
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Do you have access to the full research paper, or are you just referring to the abstract? It appears you have to pay for the results in this case.
 
RobertPGH1981 said:
Do you have access to the full research paper, or are you just referring to the abstract? It appears you have to pay for the results in this case.
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My comments were based on the full research paper. Unfortunately, due to copyright law, I cannot post it here. Sorry--I had thought that because you were using the article to bolster a position, you had read the article.
 
@Nate

All of this seems like conspiracy theory stuff and trust me I felt that way myself. But I have met people who claim that the vaccine caused something in their child's personality to shift. Robert DeNiro has a son who has autism and he is pretty vocal about this himself. If you don't believe the conspiracy theory stuff you can trust DeNiro. :scholar: :scratch: ( ** start at 2:14 **)

 
Nate said:
My comments were based on the full research paper. Unfortunately, due to copyright law, I cannot post it here. Sorry--I had thought that because you were using the article to bolster a position, you had read the article.
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Unfortunately, I didn't... I had somebody pass this to me in the past and said it was true. I assumed they read it but I guess that is how some conspiracy stuff starts. Although you still have the experiences of a lot of parents including DeNiro.
 
RobertPGH1981 said:
Unfortunately, I didn't... I had somebody pass this to me in the past and said it was true. I assumed they read it but I guess that is how some conspiracy stuff starts. Although you still have the experiences of a lot of parents including DeNiro.
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I was just trying to interact with a specific published reference that was used in this thread. Interacting with experiences of parents is likely outside my ken.
 
Nate said:
I was just trying to interact with a specific published reference that was used in this thread. Interacting with experiences of parents is likely outside my ken.
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They supported various views but I lost it when I left Facebook about three months ago. This link was one that I found in some paper I wrote down when talking to somebody online.

Check these two out if you have time since its listed in the package insert of the MMR vaccine. (https://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf)

Inflammatory/post-infectious encephalomyelitis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6751212

Neurological complications of immunization.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1765651/
 
I think the fight is in the wrong place. We should be fighting to have clean vaccines free from injurious chemicals and free from aborted fetuses even if those aborted fetuses were from many years ago.
 
I get vaccinated every year for the flu at the hospital I work at. The main reason I do is because I would have to where a mask all the time if I did not get the shoot, and I hate the smell of my breath.
 
I'm a physician, am practicing and have for the last 25 years practiced in rural southern Ethiopia. There are almost no routine immunizations; the government does respond marvelously to outbreaks, however. Immunization is messing with a person's immune system. We don't really know all the ramifications of what we are doing.
In this area, as well as almost all rural developing areas of the world where immunizations are rare, there are almost no autoimmune diseases: I've seen 2 cases of asthma in these years, 2 cases of rheumatoid arthritis, no lupus. My view is that one should immunize against devastating diseases such as diphtheria and tetanus. One should not immunize against nuisance diseases such as chicken pox, rubella and shingles, since the gain from avoiding these diseases is small compared to the risk of developing an autoimmune condition to say nothing of autism spectrum.
 
RobertPGH1981 said:
Check these two out if you have time since its listed in the package insert of the MMR vaccine. (https://www.merck.com/product/usa/pi_circulars/m/mmr_ii/mmr_ii_pi.pdf)

Inflammatory/post-infectious encephalomyelitis https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6751212

Neurological complications of immunization.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1765651/
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Yes, these are summaries of known possible complications that can arise from vaccines. These are what others in this thread have referred to as the "slight risk" that accompanies vaccination. I am not aware of anyone who disputes these slight risks.
 
Nate said:
These are what others in this thread have referred to as the "slight risk" that accompanies vaccination. I am not aware of anyone who disputes these slight risks.
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I am wondering if the symptoms listed for the above are beng mischaracterized as Autism
 
Andrew35 said:
Yeah... I researched the flu shots, and the effectiveness rates just didn't seem justifiable for the fuss to me. 19-50% most years? Forget it. We'll take our chances.
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Used to be that way until it dehydrated the crap out of me one year...and my mom had a weakened immune system from chemo.
 
G said:
How so? That article does not speak of anti-Vaccine folks.

With world travel it could very well likely be the case.

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/vaccine-basics/who-gets-vaccination.html
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Because it's not a routine vaccination. Fully vaccinated children in the US will not receive the vaccine for smallpox. According to the CDC page, you only need to be vaccinated for smallpox if you are a lab worker who works with the virus or a similar virus or if there is a smallpox outbreak and you are exposed.

"Who Should Get Vaccination
After smallpox was eliminated from the world, routine vaccination against smallpox among the general public was stopped because it was no longer needed. However, because of concern that variola virus might be used as an agent of bioterrorism, the U.S. government has stockpiled enough smallpox vaccine to vaccinate everyone who would need it if a smallpox outbreak were to occur.

When there is NO smallpox outbreak, you should get the smallpox vaccine if you:

  • Are a lab worker who works with virus that causes smallpox or other viruses that are similar to it.
If you need long-term protection, you may need to get booster vaccinations regularly. To stay protected from smallpox, you should get booster vaccinations every 3 years.

When there IS a smallpox outbreak, you should get the smallpox vaccine if you:

  • Are directly exposed to smallpox virus. For example, if you had a prolonged face-to-face contact with someone who has smallpox.
If there is a smallpox outbreak, public health officials will say who else should get the vaccine. CDC works with federal, state, and local officials to prepare for a smallpox outbreak."
 
Cheryl Watson said:
Because it's not a routine vaccination. Fully vaccinated children in the US will not receive the vaccine for smallpox. According to the CDC page, you only need to be vaccinated for smallpox if you are a lab worker who works with the virus or a similar virus or if there is a smallpox outbreak and you are exposed.

"Who Should Get Vaccination
After smallpox was eliminated from the world, routine vaccination against smallpox among the general public was stopped because it was no longer needed. However, because of concern that variola virus might be used as an agent of bioterrorism, the U.S. government has stockpiled enough smallpox vaccine to vaccinate everyone who would need it if a smallpox outbreak were to occur.

When there is NO smallpox outbreak, you should get the smallpox vaccine if you:

  • Are a lab worker who works with virus that causes smallpox or other viruses that are similar to it.
If you need long-term protection, you may need to get booster vaccinations regularly. To stay protected from smallpox, you should get booster vaccinations every 3 years.

When there IS a smallpox outbreak, you should get the smallpox vaccine if you:

  • Are directly exposed to smallpox virus. For example, if you had a prolonged face-to-face contact with someone who has smallpox.
If there is a smallpox outbreak, public health officials will say who else should get the vaccine. CDC works with federal, state, and local officials to prepare for a smallpox outbreak."
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Yes I read your article. Again this article does not deal with reasons people still get smallpox. So regardless if I agree with Richard or not.. I repeat myself.
 
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G said:
Yes I read your article. Again this article does not deal with reasons people still get smallpox. So regardless if I agree with Richard or not.. I repeat myself.
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I'm sorry, I thought you were saying that it was spread by those who are anti-vaccine.

I actually tried to get my older children vaccinated against smallpox and couldn't. That was quite a while ago, but it makes me wonder if one can even get vaccinated for smallpox unless you meet one of the recommended criteria.
 
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