Scott,
You said:
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that the OC is the C.o.W, and the NC is the C.o.G.
I'm not sure I would agree. I would see the C.o.G beginning in Gen 3 and continuing until the return of Christ, at the consummation, but I would see the OC and the NC as being administrations of the C.o.G. What makes the New Covenant new? James White says:
Obviously the question "What makes the New Covenant new?" is very important to this whole issue. If it's true that everyone in the New Covenant is saved, then you cannot say that the New Covenant was fulfilled or consummated before Christ died.
Scott, the quotes from Pratt that you use, they do not support your position. Pratt makes it clear that the New Covenant is soteriological in nature. I don't see how you can use him to support you argument.
In this context, I believe he is talking about something new in "degree", whereas the New Covenant is new in "kind". Apples and oranges!
Abraham, Issac and Jacob absolutely had the law written on their hearts. There is no doubt. What makes the New Covenant new (according to the Credo's) is that all within the New Covenant will have the law written on their hearts as Abraham, Issac and Jacob had.
I wonder if we could interpret it like this:
"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Circumcise your heart: for they shall all have their hearts circumcized, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
In other words, the emphasis is on something God will do to all covenant members.
Scott, I'll admit I've got a lot more studying to do on this. I hope thing will begin falling into place soon.
Mike
You said:
The NC is not new like you want to believe. It is fulfilled or consumated. The old testament saint had full advantage of Christ; looking to Him. The present day saint as well; looking back. man have always been saved in the same way all throughout scripture. So how is the NC better? It is better because the OC (the covenant of works) brought death! The NC brings life. When was the NC initiated? In Gen 3. When was it fulfilled, at calvary. Think of it as a glass being filled with water. Empty during the C.o.W and beginning to be filled up over time, fully filled at Christs crucifixion.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that the OC is the C.o.W, and the NC is the C.o.G.
I'm not sure I would agree. I would see the C.o.G beginning in Gen 3 and continuing until the return of Christ, at the consummation, but I would see the OC and the NC as being administrations of the C.o.G. What makes the New Covenant new? James White says:
...the newness of the New Covenant is seen in the extensiveness of the expression of God's grace to all in it. It is an exhaustive demonstration of grace, for all in the New Covenant experience all that is inherent in the covenant in the blood of the Son of God. It is not merely a remnant that experiences these things, but all, so that the saying, "They did not keep my covenant" cannot be said of them, for unlike the Old Covenant where there were many who did not have the law in their hearts and minds, did not know the Lord, and did not know the forgiveness of their sins, this is not the case in the New Covenant...The newness of the New Covenant in the blood of Christ is found in the reality that the better mediator, better hope, better sacrifices, mean that all, from the least to the greatest of them, know the Lord savingly. (James White, "The Newness of the New Covenant [Part II]", Reformed Baptist Theological Review [vol II No. 1], pgs. 88-89)
Obviously the question "What makes the New Covenant new?" is very important to this whole issue. If it's true that everyone in the New Covenant is saved, then you cannot say that the New Covenant was fulfilled or consummated before Christ died.
Scott, the quotes from Pratt that you use, they do not support your position. Pratt makes it clear that the New Covenant is soteriological in nature. I don't see how you can use him to support you argument.
What did Christ mean here:
Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Did he really mean new? Was it really a new commandment? If so, He broke his own rules.........
1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
Another one?
2Jo 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
Yet another.
So we now have 13 commandments???
In this context, I believe he is talking about something new in "degree", whereas the New Covenant is new in "kind". Apples and oranges!
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Are you prepared to tell me Abraham, Issac and Jacob did not have this benefit?
Abraham, Issac and Jacob absolutely had the law written on their hearts. There is no doubt. What makes the New Covenant new (according to the Credo's) is that all within the New Covenant will have the law written on their hearts as Abraham, Issac and Jacob had.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Since when do we not need teachers or the gospel?
I wonder if we could interpret it like this:
"And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Circumcise your heart: for they shall all have their hearts circumcized, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
In other words, the emphasis is on something God will do to all covenant members.
Scott, I'll admit I've got a lot more studying to do on this. I hope thing will begin falling into place soon.
Mike