tongues speaking during a worship service

Discussion in 'Pneumatology' started by rembrandt, Mar 31, 2004.

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  1. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    what would you do if a member in your congregation began speaking in tongues or started giving a prophesy (out loud- to the congregation)? Say you were standing right beside him/her during the worship service. I would probably give him a nudge while he was speaking and try to figure out a nice way to tell him to stop.

    the above question is mainly for members of the congregation and not specifically for pastors. But, pastors, what would you do? And after the situation gets handled would you say anything to the congregation about it?

    I come from a church were tongues speaking and prophesy is regular during a worship service, but I havn't seen anybody attempt since I left Pentecostalism.

    Rembrandt

    [Edited on 3-31-2004 by rembrandt]
     
  2. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritanboard Softy

    I'd get on all fours and start barking like a dog.
    :dunce:

    Just kidding.

    In all honesty, I don't think that there would be a huge likelihood of that happening in a non-charismatic church. The reason is that the prerequisite "cultural acceptance" wouldn't be there...
    But if he did start up I think that it would be the responsiblity of the pastor/elders to restrain him... but if they didn't then I would advise him that he is deceived.
     
  3. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

    If I were a pastor or elder of the Church I would stop the service and rebuke him.

    If I were not, I would contact the elders as soon as practicable. If they were unwilling to do anything, I would begin the process of leaving the church.
     
  4. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    how about if he/she was doing this for the whole congregation to hear, talking as loud as possible, almost yelling (that is the usual way I have seen it done). Sometimes the ecstatic revelations (from the devil of course) last for 5 minutes. What if he was talking in the name of God for say 10 seconds (before the pastor/elders could get to him). Would you perform a citizen's arrest? Or atleast shake him violently until he shuts up?

    [quote:6159263398]In all honesty, I don't think that there would be a huge likelihood of that happening in a non-charismatic church. The reason is that the prerequisite "cultural acceptance" wouldn't be there...[/quote:6159263398]

    it still happens though.

    Rembrandt
     
  5. a mere housewife

    a mere housewife Not your cup of tea

    I would get out of the way so the elders/deacons could get to him.
     
  6. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    good idea. tap him on the shoulder and then get everybody else to evacuate the aisle.
     
  7. SolaScriptura

    SolaScriptura Puritanboard Softy

    [quote:ce4a34de8a][i:ce4a34de8a]Originally posted by rembrandt[/i:ce4a34de8a]
    how about if he/she was doing this for the whole congregation to hear, talking as loud as possible, almost yelling (that is the usual way I have seen it done). Sometimes the ecstatic revelations (from the devil of course) last for 5 minutes. What if he was talking in the name of God for say 10 seconds (before the pastor/elders could get to him). Would you perform a citizen's arrest? Or atleast shake him violently until he shuts up?

    [quote:ce4a34de8a]In all honesty, I don't think that there would be a huge likelihood of that happening in a non-charismatic church. The reason is that the prerequisite "cultural acceptance" wouldn't be there...[/quote:ce4a34de8a]

    it still happens though.

    Rembrandt [/quote:ce4a34de8a]

    Well.... since we're clearly talking in hypotheticals...
    If it was a quick 10 second blip then he'd probably be done by the time anybody got over their shock. In that case I'd leave the man alone (again, I'd leave it up to the pastor or elders to stand up and say that the man is of Satan) until after the service.
    Now, I'll play along with where you're wanting us to go...
    If this was a 10 minute type of thing and the guy just won't shut up and he's yelling and carrying on like a fool... then yes, if no one else has the guts to do what needs to be done, then I would physically remove the man from the room. (I'm a big, tough guy... I can do that type of thing.)
    I'd probably dump him - bouncer style- outside the church and stand guard at the door for the rest of the service. On Monday (because I wouldn't want to work on Sunday...) I would make a sign and post it by the door. It would read "Disrupt our worship service and you will be removed."
    :sumo:
     
  8. alwaysreforming

    alwaysreforming Puritan Board Sophomore

    How I would handle the scenario

    I would go up to the man and say something like, "Brother! Brother! You are disrupting the worship service and distracting everyone from worshipping the Lord. Lets talk after the service is over; I want to tell you how we believe a worship service is conducted."

    Then, after the service, I'd let him know where we stand on this issue (reason with him from the Scriptures), and then invite him to either concede on this issue or find a different church, but we certainly do not want such a "scene" again.

    He was probably either mentally ill, or culturally conditioned to behave the way he did. Hopefully, if he is able, he'll change for the better.

    My :wr50:
     
  9. A_Wild_Boar

    A_Wild_Boar Puritan Board Freshman

    Honestly I would probably laugh. Actually no. It would freak me out a little.

    [Edited on 4-1-2004 by A_Wild_Boar]
     
  10. cupotea

    cupotea Puritan Board Junior

    My ushers would tackle them down to the ground, handcuff them and escort them out the building.

    or

    If it is done after the preaching and an interpreter is able to translate what was said, I may not have a problem as long as it is done decently and in order and not cause a disruption and quenching the Holy Spirit. However the person would be dealt with and questioned on their doctrine.

    If it interrupts the sermon, they would be rebuked from the pulpit and called to order.

    Brent

    P.S. I was just kidding in the first paragraph, my ushers aren't allowed to carry handcuffs. :chained:

    [Edited on 4-1-2004 by CajunBibleBeliever]
     
  11. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    Are you guys asking what we would do if someone actually stood up and legitimately was given the Biblical gift of tongues and started speaking what we do? Or are you asking about someone standing up talking charismatic gibberish - which is not the Biblical gift of tongues.

    1 Cor 14 gives us at least 10 things that have to be true for it to be the actual spiritual gift in operation. So I just wanted to be sure that you were all reacting against a false presentation of the gift instead of an actual occurence that matched the requirements of Scripture and was legitimately a gift of the Spirit!

    Phillip

    :blah1:
     
  12. Rich Barcellos

    Rich Barcellos Puritan Board Freshman

    Phillip said:

    [Are you guys asking what we would do if someone actually stood up and legitimately was given the Biblical gift of tongues and started speaking what we do? Or are you asking about someone standing up talking charismatic gibberish - which is not the Biblical gift of tongues.]

    If the latter, I would stop the service and ask him to be quiet. If he refused, I would rebuke him. If he continued, I'd have our deacons and/or our two LA County armed deputies escort him out. If he was still around after the service, I would talk to him and exhort him not to do that again or find another church.

    The former is impossible.
     
  13. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    Just wanted to be sure we were not categorizing what goes on today with the gift shown in the Scriptures!

    Phillip :naughty:
     
  14. mjbee

    mjbee Puritan Board Freshman

    Aww, c'mon you guys, be charitable. Don't get mad and bounce the person out of the church or handcuff him/her! God brought that person to your service for a reason or two. One would be to see how you would react (in love or anger). The other would be to correct the poor sorry deceived....whatever. Good grief. Do you treat Mormons that way when they knock on your door? Or do you view it as an opportunity to point them to the Christ of the Scriptures?
    Melissa
     
  15. FrozenChosen

    FrozenChosen Puritan Board Freshman

    I do think it's funny that the Spirit only descends in charismatic services. Poor rest of us. :think:
     
  16. rembrandt

    rembrandt Puritan Board Sophomore

    [quote:5946ab295a]Do you treat Mormons that way when they knock on your door? Or do you view it as an opportunity to point them to the Christ of the Scriptures?[/quote:5946ab295a]

    oh, we are not supposed to ceize the mormons?... still got a few in my basement. j/k :hobbyhorse:
     
  17. mjbee

    mjbee Puritan Board Freshman

    Paul, you are not right! (by the way, it's seize). I will send the Christian liberators to your house to free those poor Elders. :attack:
     
  18. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    Thinking of it as Mormons will help us understand the responses we are getting. If a mormon apologist/missionary showed up at my church and stood up and started teaching his heresy and would not stop, I would have him physically removed. I am responsioble to protect the flock! And error in our midst is not to be toloerated. Otherwise we should just allow anyone with any belief to stand up and talk in church!

    If what is being done is against the Scripture (which the type of tongues talked about in this thread is against the Scripture) then we do no placate the individual, we tell them to stop, rebuke them, and remove them if they fail to comply.

    I would want to talk to them further to present the truth to them but I would not be doing my job as a pastor if I allowed false teaching to go unchallenged right under my nose!

    And when the Mormons and JWs come to the door, I am polite, but I tell them the truth. I do not ask them into the house, but stand at the door with my Greek testament! They usually do not stick around for very long once they know I know what I am talking about. They are looking for confused uncertain people to lead astray, they are not looking for a true discussion of the matter at hand!

    [b:ca20e1d8e1]1 Tim 6[/b:ca20e1d8e1]
    3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.

    [b:ca20e1d8e1]2 John[/b:ca20e1d8e1]
    9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

    Phillip
     
  19. a mere housewife

    a mere housewife Not your cup of tea

    I just wanted to clarify that when I get out of the way for my elders and deacons to deal with the situation, they are hopefully not coming with handcuffs. (I'd rather see Private Bouncy leading a platoon of soldiers...) We are to "in meekness instruct those that oppose themselves..."
     
  20. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    Those with handcuffs would be law enforcement officers, who would be right to arrest an individual who had been instructed to leave the church - for if they disrupt and do not leave when told to do so, they are trespassing and subject to arrest and charges!

    Phillip :mine:
     
  21. a mere housewife

    a mere housewife Not your cup of tea

    I agree with that, but my previous post was about what I would do initially, & I think it was unclear that the elders/deacons would hopefully ask him to be quiet before bringing out their handcuffs :). I didn't see your post before I posted, so it sounded like I was contradicting your post... but I wasn't.

    [Edited on 4-1-2004 by a mere housewife]
     
  22. pastorway

    pastorway Puritan Board Senior

    I understand....synchronized posting!!

    Phillip :boldblue::boldblue::boldblue:
     
  23. mjbee

    mjbee Puritan Board Freshman

    Grrrrrr, Phillip! Your post at 22:16 will get a reply from me, but I'm exhausted and gotta go to bed. :flaming:
    Bee
     
  24. Rich Barcellos

    Rich Barcellos Puritan Board Freshman

    I think my post may have been taken in a way not intended. I said:
    [If the latter, I would stop the service and ask him to be quiet. If he refused, I would rebuke him. If he continued, I'd have our deacons and/or our two LA County armed deputies escort him out. If he was still around after the service, I would talk to him and exhort him not to do that again or find another church.]

    1. I would ask him to be quiet in the spirit of 2 Tm. 2:24-26.
    2. If he would not, I would rebuke him publicly for disorderliness (Col. 2:5; Tit. 1:9ff.; 3:9-10), since his disorderliness was public.
    3. If he continued, I'd have our deacons and/or armed deputies escort him out. I should have put a smiley after this. However, I would have either the deacons or deputies escort him out. I have seen what a disorderly person can do to a congregation. It takes brazened boldness to do such a thing, in most cases (unless it's done in complete ignorance, which is probably very rare, especially since it does not take much discernement to conclude that our church is not Charismatic).
    4. If he quited down and hung around, I'd seek to instruct him and invite him back.

    We once had a visitor who sat very uneasy during the sermon. After the service ended, he went to our book table. He started to make accusations of heresy. He then began to pass out anti-Calvinistic tracts and warning our people against their pastors (wolves in sheep's clothing). I approached him, kindly (by the grace of God I assure you; I gained much assurance of salvation at this time :)) asked him to stop propogating such ideas to my sheep. He said something like, "What if I continue?" I said, "Then I'll have to ask you to leave." He went ballistic; started spouting off Scripture verses where Jesus denounced Pharisees and rattling off portions of the US Constitution. He then started approaching people who were coming out of the building and warning them, despite my efforts. One of my deacons (US Air Force :)) and one of the deputies got the people back into the building and assisted me in shutting the guy up. Our people stayed in the buidling, prayed, then sang A Mighty Fortress is our God. He then went to his van and pulled out picket signs and starting marching on the property, yelling slanders about Calvinists (Reformers, Puritans, Spurgeon, me, our elders, etc.). Finally, we called the LA County Sherriff's office. They came immediately. When they arrived, they rolled their eyes. They knew who he was.

    The whole ordeal lasted over an hour. Some children were frightened. Their parents were able to assure them that all was well.

    Last I say the guy, he was handcuffed in the back of the sherriff's car. I found out later that he had been ex-communicated form Grace Community Church (John MacArthur) and was known to picket churches and cause civil disturbences.

    I suppose my experience in this situation has made me a bit on edge concerning those who would disrupt in like manner.

    BTW, the Holy Spirit is present with our church every time we meet. :)
     
  25. brymaes

    brymaes Puritan Board Sophomore

    [quote:246cdac40c][i:246cdac40c]Originally posted by Rich Barcellos[/i:246cdac40c]
    Last I say the guy, he was handcuffed in the back of the sherriff's car. I found out later that he had been ex-communicated form Grace Community Church (John MacArthur) and was known to picket churches and cause civil disturbences. [/quote:246cdac40c]

    Was it Darwin Fish, or one of his associates?

    :dueling:
     
  26. kceaster

    kceaster Puritan Board Junior

    What would happen...

    I don't know whether or not this is mean spirited or sinful. And, this may be slightly off topic, but I would be curious to see what would happen if one would go to a charismatic church and quote one of the OT texts in Hebrew, or read the NT in Greek. Do you think people would look at you funny? Or, say a person can speak fluent French, German, or Russian and stood up to read a portion of those Bible versions in their midst. Do you think that would make them uncomfortable?

    Have you ever witnessed a person get offended by two foreigners speaking in a public place, because they couldn't understand them? I wonder if charismatics ever do that.

    What they pass as language and think perfectly fine in the worship of God, they would probably take offense to if it were real and they couldn't understand it.

    But, I'm not coming from experience here, so I would be interested in what some of you would say to this.

    Would it offend a charismatic if someone were speaking an actual language?

    In Christ,

    KC
     
  27. Rich Barcellos

    Rich Barcellos Puritan Board Freshman

    Bryan asked:

    [quote:cf9ff750f6]
    Was it Darwin Fish, or one of his associates?
    [/quote:cf9ff750f6]

    The one, the only, the same. Ironically, he was invited by a man from our church who saw his van (the fish mobile) and invited him to church while stopped at a red light minutes before our service. Even more ironically, the guy who invited him ended up remembering Darwin from the Master's College and one of our deacons knew him and his wife from the mid 1980s at Grace. The next day, I called Phil Johnson and he filled me in. The Fishites have not visited us since.
     
  28. sundoulos

    sundoulos Puritan Board Freshman

    A number of years ago, a man stood up and started quoting from Charles and Myrtle Fillmore. I was an elder in the church and the associate pastor (who was teaching that morning) was not familiar with the Fillmores (who founded Unity School of Christianity). I stood up and rebuked the man who didn't take kindly to it. I then turned to the congregation and said, "Charles and Myrtle Fillmore are burning in hell." Then I turned back to the man and said, "And that's where you will go if you continue to believe and teach those doctrines." The man picked up his stuff and left.

    On another occasion a man came up to me and said, "I have a word of prophecy for you." He did not know me, was a complete stranger to our community, and was visiting our church on his way through. I gave him leave to speak. He told me the thoughts of my heart and gave me an encouraging word from the Lord, quoting scripture. I never before or since have seen anything like this. Whether it was a word from God I could not state positively, yet what he said was true. No problem here.

    Disruption of a service, however, is always out of line and should be immediately dealt with.
     
  29. dswatts

    dswatts Puritan Board Freshman

    [quote:d63a68a590][i:d63a68a590]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:d63a68a590]
    :rack: [/quote:d63a68a590]

    ROFLOL! That cracked me up!

    Personally, that is why I keep an extra hymnal in the pulpit...good for chunkin' (for those of you who aren't from Texas/the South...that means throw real hard!):D at disruptive parishioners!

    Grace,
    Dwayne
     
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