To what extent does the church have a right into your personal business?

[Pergamum]

Among Reformed Baptists one of their firebrands was recently arrested for child abuse. It was revealed that for years he had been "disciplining" children alone in his office and spanking them. He has admitted to such.

...And then there are further allegations that the courts will have to decide upon...

I cannot imagine an environment where such things would be considered normal, parents handing over their young kids for private 1-on-1 "discipline" with a male pastor alone in his office, especially when he often took upon himself the prerogatives of a parent in spanking other people's children.

When there is a church environment where it is normal for the pastor to ask to "tutor" a 9 or 10 year old alone for hours each week in his church office, a practice which includes physical spankings, something is off with their view of authority and church discipline.

I have concluded that this is not an occasional occurrence, but that many Reformed Baptist churches hold a view of church discipline that allows such things to happen. In other words, there is a theological error at play....an overemphasis on the high authority of the pastor and on the submission of the congregation to him.

I went to another RB church of the same mindset and the pastor suddenly put my son on the spot and began to quiz him on the catechism. The pastor then smiled and told me he was "checking up" on me to make sure I was teaching my son. My wife was livid. You don't pull other kids aside or begin to quiz them like that....normal people know this...unless you've been taught all your life that such things are not normal in a church where the pastor is regarded as an authority above the mother and father or where church discipline is practiced in such a manner that it intrudes upon private and family affairs.

 

[jwright82]

I would say that great wisdom needs to be taken into consideration. I personally like horror movies and gangster movies. But I don't tell many people at church because it might offend. But if they came to me about it I would respectively say it's not there business.

 

[Pergamum]

The Westminister Larger Catechism
Q145: What are the sins forbidden in the ninth commandment?

The sins forbidden in the ninth commandment are, all prejudicing the truth, and the good name of our neighbours, as well as our own, especially in public judicature; giving false evidence; suborning false witnesses, wittingly appearing and pleading for an evil cause, out-facing and over-bearing the truth; passing unjust sentence, calling evil good, and good evil; rewarding the wicked according to the work of the righteous, and the righteous according to the work of the wicked; forgery, concealing the truth, undue silence in a just cause, and holding our peace when iniquity calleth for either a reproof from ourselves, or complaint to others...hiding, excusing, or extenuating of sins...

 

[Pergamum]

KMK:

I have edited my post. But because you quoted my post the original post can still be seen. Please delete my quote.

Yes, pastors are sometimes falsely accused. But where there is smoke there is often fire. And if a man is indicted and has 5 witnesses against him, and has admitted to at least a portion of the indictment, we ought not to blindly urge silence but instead press for justice to be done.

 

[KMK]

I agree that justice should be pursued, especially when the vulnerable are involved.

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Isaiah 1:17

 

[jwright82]

Didn't part of R.C. Sproul jr's defrocking have to do with over extending the church's "authority" into the private lives of his church members?

 

[Dachaser]

Among Reformed Baptists one of their firebrands was recently arrested for child abuse. It was revealed that for years he had been "disciplining" children alone in his office and spanking them. He has admitted to such.

...And then there are further allegations that the courts will have to decide upon...

I cannot imagine an environment where such things would be considered normal, parents handing over their young kids for private 1-on-1 "discipline" with a male pastor alone in his office, especially when he often took upon himself the prerogatives of a parent in spanking other people's children.

When there is a church environment where it is normal for the pastor to ask to "tutor" a 9 or 10 year old alone for hours each week in his church office, a practice which includes physical spankings, something is off with their view of authority and church discipline.

I have concluded that this is not an occasional occurrence, but that many Reformed Baptist churches hold a view of church discipline that allows such things to happen. In other words, there is a theological error at play....an overemphasis on the high authority of the pastor and on the submission of the congregation to him.

I went to another RB church of the same mindset and the pastor suddenly put my son on the spot and began to quiz him on the catechism. The pastor then smiled and told me he was "checking up" on me to make sure I was teaching my son. My wife was livid. You don't pull other kids aside or begin to quiz them like that....normal people know this...unless you've been taught all your life that such things are not normal in a church where the pastor is regarded as an authority above the mother and father or where church discipline is practiced in such a manner that it intrudes upon private and family affairs.

There must be a balance in spiritual authority, as there have been many so called love cults that have pastor have his own sex slaves and wives due to Him being a prophet or messiah, like David Koresh held himself as being.
And Christianity has seen several pastors and otehrs in authority also doing alleged acts like that, remember Bishop Paulk and even some famous pastors gone into homosexual affairs, so there is a definite need to have the local spiritual authorities to been supervised, and to have accountability all around within the local church.

In my mind, there should never be a time when a pastor would be alone with an underage child in their office without parents around to oversee it is all above board.

 

[Dachaser]

I agree that justice should be pursued, especially when the vulnerable are involved.

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. Isaiah 1:17

Especially if it involves child predator.

 

[Dachaser]

Didn't part of R.C. Sproul jr's defrocking have to do with over extending the church's "authority" into the private lives of his church members?

Any known examples?

 

[RamistThomist]

Any known examples?

make of it what you will. My own hunch is that it was a long line of issues that finally culminated. See page 3
http://hushmoney.org/RPCGA-judgment.pdf

 

[Dachaser]

make of it what you will. My own hunch is that it was a long line of issues that finally culminated. See page 3
http://hushmoney.org/RPCGA-judgment.pdf

Looked like a very long list indeed.

 

[Moses Costigan]

What about the issue of family worship? I've wondered what the standard for inquiry into this would be in the various reformed churches. In churches we have been in, it was left a private matter to the families.

In my experience here in Australia, in reformed Anglican circles, it (family worship) is encouraged but generally not emphasised significantly.
I would speculate that in more confessional reformed bodies (the Presbyterian Church of Australia and the Presbyterian Church of Eastern Australia) it would given greater attention.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[jwright82]

Any known examples?

I don't know? That's why I was asking.

 

[ZackF]

I think Dr. Strange hit it. The biggies, to great scandal, may go sinfully unaddressed by leadership. However, it's the everyday churchy sins like gossip, backbiting and pettiness that can also bring down a church if not confronted by leadership and rooted out.