Tithing in the NT? (split thread)

[Scott Bushey]

A few thoughts to consider:

First of all, why would one think that tithing is done away with? Because of the issue of NT silence? There are a number of other issues that are not mentioned in the NT; are we to do away with those as well? Also, Just because the NT is silent does not negate the principle. For the record, the rationale that the NT does not specifically abrogate the principle proves it's perpetuity in my opinion. Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'. Is the law abrogated?

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Scott Bushey]

 

[crhoades]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
A few thoughts to consider:

First of all, why would one think that tithing is done away with? Because of the issue of NT silence? There are a number of other issues that are not mentioned in the NT; are we to do away with those as well? Also, Just because the NT is silent does not negate the principle. For the record, the rationale that the NT does not specifically abrogate the principle proves it's perpetuity in my opinion. Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'. Is the law abrogated?

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Scott Bushey]

I dunno, Scott...sounds theonomic to me...

 

[Scott Bushey]

 

[Cuirassier]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
A few thoughts to consider:

First of all, why would one think that tithing is done away with? Because of the issue of NT silence? There are a number of other issues that are not mentioned in the NT; are we to do away with those as well? Also, Just because the NT is silent does not negate the principle. For the record, the rationale that the NT does not specifically abrogate the principle proves it's perpetuity in my opinion. Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'. Is the law abrogated?

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Scott Bushey]

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
A few thoughts to consider:

First of all, why would one think that tithing is done away with? Because of the issue of NT silence? There are a number of other issues that are not mentioned in the NT; are we to do away with those as well? Also, Just because the NT is silent does not negate the principle. For the record, the rationale that the NT does not specifically abrogate the principle proves it's perpetuity in my opinion. Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'. Is the law abrogated?

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Scott Bushey]

scott i respectively disagree with you. Jesus did not say tithing was a weightier matter.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For
you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the
weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and
faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done
without neglecting the others" (Matt. 23:23).

wow i thought you covenant theologians said the judicial and cerimonial law were done away with! there is NO NT justification for tithing. giving is summed up in 2 corinthians:

"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

tithing is compulsorary and Paul exhorts us not to give in this manner. besides the tithe was a theocratic tax paid to the levitical priesthood. find a levite and pay a tithe if you must...

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by joshua
Matthew, is the Church a Theocracy?

no

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

if not for seperation of church and state america would be, hopefully a christian theocracy. unfortunately it is not and is bound to the private sector. if it were, would you pay a tithe to it and the church you attend?

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Originally posted by Scott Bushey
A few thoughts to consider:

First of all, why would one think that tithing is done away with? Because of the issue of NT silence? There are a number of other issues that are not mentioned in the NT; are we to do away with those as well? Also, Just because the NT is silent does not negate the principle. For the record, the rationale that the NT does not specifically abrogate the principle proves it's perpetuity in my opinion. Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'. Is the law abrogated?

[Edited on 5-3-2006 by Scott Bushey]

scott i respectively disagree with you. Jesus did not say tithing was a weightier matter.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For
you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the
weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and
faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done
without neglecting the others" (Matt. 23:23).

wow i thought you covenant theologians said the judicial and cerimonial law were done away with! there is NO NT justification for tithing. giving is summed up in 2 corinthians:

"Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

tithing is compulsorary and Paul exhorts us not to give in this manner. besides the tithe was a theocratic tax paid to the levitical priesthood. find a levite and pay a tithe if you must...

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith:

Correct. It is NOT the weightier matter. It is however, of the law, and since the law is not abrogated, neither is tithing. Tithing was not ceremonial.

Here is an excerpt from A. Pink.

The Tithe in the New testament

Only God has the right to say how much of our income shall be set aside and set apart unto Him. And He has so said clearly, repeatedly, in the Old Testament Scriptures, and there is nothing in the New Testament that introduces any change or that sets aside the teaching of the Old Testament on this important subject.

Christ Himself has placed His approval and set His imprimatur upon the tithe. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone" (Matt. 23:23). In that verse Christ is rebuking the scribes and Pharisees because of their hypocrisy. They had been very strict and punctilious in tithing the herbs, but on the other hand they had neglected the weightier matters such as judgment, or justice, and mercy. But while Christ acknowledged that the observance of justice and mercy is more important than tithing"”it is a "weightier matter""”while, He says, these they ought to have done, nevertheless He says, these other ye ought not to have left undone. He does not set aside the tithe. He places justice and mercy as being more weighty, but He places His authority upon the practice of tithing by saying, "These ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." It is well for us if we by the grace of God have not omitted justice and mercy and faith: it is well if by the grace of God those things have found a place in our midst: but the tithing ought not to have been left undone, and Christ Himself says so.

The second passage to be noted is 1 Corinthians 9:13, 14: "Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel." The emphatic words there are, "Even so" in the beginning of the fourteenth verse. The word "tithe" is not found in these two verses but it is most clearly implied. In verse 13 the Holy Spirit reminds the New Testament saints that under the Mosaic economy God had made provision for the maintenance of those who ministered in the temple. Now then, He says, in this New Testament dispensation "Even so" (v. 14)"”the same means and the same method are to be used in the support and maintaining of the preachers of the Gospel as were used in supporting the temple and its services of old. "Even so." It was the tithe that supported God´s servants in the Old Testament dispensation: "even so" God has ordained, and appointed that His servants in the New Testament dispensation shall be so provided for.

Referring next to 1 Corinthians 16:1 and 2: here again we find the word "tithe" does not actually occur, and yet once more it is plainly implied: the principle of it is there surely enough. "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him." Now what does "laying by" imply? Certainly it signifies a definite predetermined act, rather than a spontaneous impulse, or just acting on the spur of the moment. Let us look at this again. "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store." (v. 2). Why are we told that? Why is it put that way´? Why use such an expression as "lay by in store"? Clearly that language points us back to Malachi 3:10. "Bring ye all the tithes into the _______" Where? The "storehouse"! That is where the tithes were to be brought. "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse." Now what does God say here in Corinthians? "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store." There is a clear reference here to the terms of Malachi 3, but that is not all. Look at it again. "Let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him." That signifies a definite proportion of the income. Not "let every one of you lay by him in store, as he feels led"; it does not say that, nor does it say "let every one of you lay by him in store as he feels moved by the Spirit"; no indeed, it says nothing of the kind. It says, "Let every one . . . lay by him as God hath prospered him": in a proportionate way, according to a percentage basis. Now consider! If my income today is double what it was a year ago and I am not giving any more to the Lord´s cause than I gave then, then I am not giving "as the Lord hath prospered": I am not giving proportionately. But now the question arises, What proportion? What is the proportion that is according to the will of God? "As He hath prospered him." Can one man bring one proportion and another man bring another proportion, and yet both of them obey this precept? Must not all bring the same proportion in order to meet the requirements of this passage? Turn for a moment to 2 Corinthians 8:14: "But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality." Please note that this verse occurs in the middle of a chapter devoted to the subject of giving, and what is to be observed is, that at the beginning of verse 14 and at the end of it we have repeated the word "equality," which means that God´s people are all to give the same proportion of their means and the only proportion that God has specified anywhere in His Word is that of the tenth, or "tithe."

There is one other passage to be looked at, namely Hebrews 7:5 and 6: "And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he, whose descent is not counted from them, received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises." (Notice the order: "received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises"). And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better." In the seventh chapter of Hebrews the Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul is showing the superiority of Christ´s priesthood over the order of the priesthood of the Levites, and one of the proofs of which He establishes the transcendency of the Melehizedek order of the priesthood of Christ was that Abraham, the father of the chosen people, acknowledged the greatness of Melehizedek by rendering tithes to him.

The reference in Hebrews 7 is to what is recorded in Genesis 14, where we have two typical characters brought before us"”Melchizedek, a type of Christ in three ways: first, in his person, combining the kingly and the priestly offices; second, a type of Christ in his names, combining righteousness and peace, for "Melchizedek" itself means "peace"; and third, a type of Christ in that he pronounced blessing on Abraham and brought forth bread and wine, the memorials of his death.

But not only was Melchizedek there a type of Christ, but Abraham was also a typical character, a representative character, seen there as the father of the faithful; and we find he acknowledged the priesthood of Melchizedek by giving him a tenth of the spoils which the Lord had enabled him to secure in vanquishing those kings, and as that is referred to in Hebrews, where the priesthood of Christ and our blessings from our relations to it and our obligation to it are set forth, the fact that Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek as mentioned there, indicates that as Abraham is the father of the faithful, so he left an example for us, his children, to follow"”in rendering tithes unto Him of whom Melchizedek was the type. And the beautiful thing in connection with the Scripture is that the last time the tithe is mentioned in the Bible (here in Heb. 7) it links the tithe directly with Christ Himself. All intermediaries are removed. In the Old Testament the tithes were brought to the priests, then carried into the storehouse, but in the final reference in Scripture, the tithe is linked directly with Christ, showing us that our obligations in the matter are concerned directly with the great Head of the Church.

In the above we have only introduced the Scriptures that present God´s mind on this matter. In the following section we will deal with the subject in an expository and in an argumentative way.

One evil ever leads to another. God´s appointed method for the financing of the work which He has been pleased to place in our hands, is that of tithing"”the strict setting aside one-tenth of all we receive, to be devoted to His cause. Where the Lord´s people faithfully do this, there is never any shortage or going into debt. Where tithing is ignored there is almost always a deficit, and then the ungodly are asked to help or worldly methods are employed to raise money. If we sow the wind, we must not be surprised if we reap the whirlwind.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

josh, whats your point? i answered that question a moment ago:

"if not for seperation of church and state america would be, hopefully a christian theocracy. unfortunately it is not and is bound to the private sector"

youre playing word games. as a staunch calvinist i can say God governs both. should i pay 2 tithes?

"Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God."

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

scott, you said

"Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'"

if tithing was not cerimonial or judicial, was it moral? again prove that tithing is binding on the nt christian from scripture and i will recant my position.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by joshua
I didn't ask about America. I asked about the true Christian Church.

youre equivocating. america = state = america = state

would you pay 2 tithes? and what you and i describe the true christian church to be is certainly not the same as what catholics, mormons or jw would say. so should we pay 4 tithes, 1 to each plus your church?

 

[Scott Bushey]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
scott, you said

"Jesus says that tithing is 'the weightier matters of the law'"

if tithing was not cerimonial or judicial, was it moral? again prove that tithing is binding on the nt christian from scripture and i will recant my position.

I corrected my first assertion Matt; see above.

Matthew,
Is not the tithe mentioned in the statement to the pharisees? Why does he mention the Law in the same breath? Now it seems to me that Jesus was chastising the Pharisees for neglecting the poor (justice and mercy), tithing and other things but notice also that Jesus plainly states that they ought to have done *both*.

Please comment on the passage from Hebrews Pink mentions.

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Melchezidek is to Abraham as Christ is to the NT saint; both are priests, both deserve and require tithes according to the law.

Question for you: Please show me where God, Christ or Paul said tithing is abrogated.



[Edited on 5-4-2006 by Scott Bushey]

 

[Scott Bushey]

Calvin writes:

Christ charges the scribes with a fault which is found in all hypocrites, that they are exceedingly diligent and careful in small matters, but disregard the principal points of the Law. This disease has prevailed in almost all ages, and among all nations; so that men have, in most cases, endeavored to please God by observing with exactness some trivial matters. Finding that they cannot entirely release themselves from all obedience to God, they have recourse to this second remedy of expiating any heinous offenses by satisfactions which are of no value. Thus we see that the Papists, while they transgress the chief commandments of God, are extremely zealous in the performance of trifling ceremonies. Hypocrisy of the same kind is now reproved by God in the scribes, who, while they were very diligent and careful in paying tithes, cared little about the principal points of the Law. To expose more fully to ridicule their offensive ostentation, he does not say generally that they paid tithes, but tithes of mint, and anise, and (as Luke has it) of every kind of herb, so as to make a display of extraordinary zeal for piety at the least possible expense.

But as Christ makes the chief righteousness of the Law to consist in mercy, judgment, and faith, we must first, see what he means by these words; and, secondly, why he left out the commandments of the first table, which strictly relate to the worship of God, as if godliness were of less value than the duties of charity. Judgment is taken for equity, or uprightness, the effect of which is, that we render to every man what belongs to him, and that no man deceives or injures others. Mercy proceeds farther, and leads a man to endeavor to assist his brethren with his property, to relieve the wretched by advice or by money, to protect those who are unjustly oppressed, and to employ liberally for the common good the means which God has put into his hands. Faith is nothing else than strict integrity; not to attempt any thing by cunning, or malice, or deceit, but to cultivate towards all that mutual sincerity which every man wishes to be pursued towards himself. The sum of the Law, therefore, relates to charity.

The word faith, I am aware, is interpreted by some persons differently, as including, by synecdoche, the whole worship of God; but Christ, according to his custom, here brings the true test of holiness to brotherly love, and therefore does not refer to the first table. Nor is it inconsistent with this view that, instead of faith, Luke uses the expression, the love of God; for the design of Christ was, to show what it is that the Lord chiefly requires of us in his Law. It is well known that the Law was divided into two tables, so as to point out, first, what we owe to God, and next, what we owe to men. Luke expresses both parts as if Christ had said, that the chief design of the Law is, that we should love God, and that we should be just and merciful towards our neighbors. Matthew satisfies himself with one part; and there is no absurdity in calling the duties of charity the principal points of the Law, since charity itself is pronounced by Paul to be the perfection of the Law; as he also says, that

the Law is fulfilled if toe love our neighbors,
(Romans 13:10.)

And Christ, when formerly interrogated as to the commandments of the Law quoted none but those which belonged to the second table.

If it be objected, that in this way men are preferred to God, because charity, which is performed towards them, is reckoned more valuable than religion, the answer is easy. Christ does not here contrast the second table of the Law with the first, but, on the contrary, draws from the manner in which the second table is kept the proof whether or not God is truly and sincerely worshipped. As piety lies within the heart, and as God does not dwell amongst us in order to make trial of our love towards Him, and does not even need our services, it is easy for hypocrites to lie, and falsely to pretend to love God. But the duties of brotherly love fall under the senses, and are placed before the eyes of all, and therefore in them the impudence of hypocrites is better ascertained. Christ, therefore, did not intend to enter into subtle inquiries about the particular parts of righteousness, or their order, but, so far as the ordinary capacity of men allowed, intended simply to show that the Law is kept only when men are just, and kind, and true, towards each other; for thus they testify that they love and fear God, and give proper and sufficient evidence of sincere piety. Not that it is enough to discharge our duties towards men, if we do not first render to God what we owe to him, but because he who regulates his life according to God's commandment must be a sincere worshipper of God.

And yet the question is not fully answered; for tithes, which Christ places inferior to judgment and mercy, were a part of divine worship, and some part of them was usually bestowed on the poor, so that tithes contained a double sacrifice. I reply: Tithes are not simply compared to alms, and faith, and judgment, but the pretended holiness of the scribes is compared with the sincere and pure feeling of charity. Why were they so ready and willing to pay tithes, but in order to pacify God a, the least expense and trouble? For they did not regard the principal point; and therefore those light matters, by which they attempted to deceive God and men, ought not to be reckoned along the duties of charity.

Matthew 23:23. The former you ought to have done. This is intended to anticipate their calumny; for they might have put an unfavorable interpretation on his discourse, and charged him with setting no value on what the Law of God had enjoined. He therefore acknowledges that whatever God has enjoined ought to be performed, and that no part of it ought to be omitted, but maintains that zeal for the whole Law is no reason why we ought not to insist chiefly on the principal points. Hence he infers that they overturn the natural order who employ themselves in the smallest matters, when they ought rather to have begun with the principal points; for tithes were only a kind of appendage. Christ therefore affirms that he has no intention to lessen the authority even of the smallest commandments, though he recommends and demands due order in keeping the Law. It is therefore our duty to preserve entire the whole Law, which cannot be violated in any part without contempt for its Author; for He who has forbidden us to commit adultery, and to kill, and to steal, has likewise condemned all impure desire. Hence we conclude that all the commandments are so interwoven with each other, that we have no right to detach one of them from the rest. Wherefore it is also written,

Cursed is every one that performeth not all things that are written, (Deuteronomy 27:26; Galatians 3:10

by which words the righteousness of the whole Law, without exception, is enforced. But this reverence, as we have said, does not take away the distinction between the commandments, or the true design of the Law, to which those who truly observe it direct their mind, that they may not merely amuse themselves on the surface.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Originally posted by joshua
I didn't ask about America. I asked about the true Christian Church.

youre equivocating. america = state = america = state

would you pay 2 tithes? and what you and i describe the true christian church to be is certainly not the same as what catholics, mormons or jw would say. so should we pay 4 tithes, 1 to each plus your church?

Amazing Matthew. Where did you get all of that from Joshua's questions? He said nothing of the sort. Is that the answer to his question?

Forget political constructs of separation of Church and State. Leave the State, leave Caeser, wholly out of the discussion.

Is the Church a theocracy? THAT is the question. Try to answer it instead of reading into the question what you think he is implying.

 

[Scott Bushey]

Previously posted by Rich Barcellos:

Here's a section from Sunday School lectures I delivered on Tithing. The three arguments below are under a., b., and c..

Three arguments for tithing as the minimum of God´s will for His people in financing His kingdom.
a. Because of the first mention of tithing in the Bible and how the NT understands it.
1) Gen. 14:18-20
a) Tithe not commanded, but assumed. All acceptable worship in the Bible is prescribed worship.
b) "œtithe" means one-tenth
c) Cf. Gen. 28:22 where Jacob vows to give God a tithe while at His house.
2) Heb. 6:19 - 7:11 (esp. vv. 5-6). This passage displays the superiority of Christ´s priesthood over the Levitical priesthood. There are two types in this passage, both of which are instructional for us.
a) Melchizedek of Christ: in three ways (Pink, 10)
"¢ In his person, by combining the kingly and priestly offices (Heb. 6:20; 7:1). As Melchizedek was both a priest and a king as a type of Christ, so Christ is both priest and king as his anti-type, or fulfillment.
"¢ In his names, combining righteousness and peace, for "œMelchizedek" itself means "œKing of righteousness," and "œSalem" means "œpeace."
"¢ In his pronouncement of blessing upon Abraham and the bringing of bread and wine (Gen. 14:18-19).
b) Abraham of believers: Ab. is the father of the faithful. Here he is seen as rendering a tithe to Melchizedek, a type of Christ. Hence, in following his example, we are to render our tithes, not to Melchizedek, but to Christ, the anti-type and fulfillment of all that Melchizedek typified. Pink, 10.
3) Waldron´s two observations on these passages:
a) "œThe paying of tithes to the Melchizedekian priesthood by Abraham confirms the Christian´s duty to tithe" (62).
"¢ Because the priest mentioned in Gen. 14:18ff. has a transcendent significance.
"¢ Because the patriarch mentioned in Gen. 14:18ff. has a transcendent significance. He is the father of the faithful in the NT.
"¢ Because the tithe mentioned in Gen. 14:18ff. has a transcendent significance, due to its presence prior to the giving of the Mosaic law.
"œSeveral things were true of Melchizedek, the priest. He provided a priestly meal of bread and wine for Abraham. He blessed Abraham"¦ He received tithes from Abraham. But Jesus is a high priest after the order of Melchizedek. You must admit that Jesus, our high priest, provides for us a sacred meal of bread and wine. You must also admit that Jesus "¦ bless[es] His people. Now how, let me ask, can you admit these two things and yet deny that Jesus, a priest after the order of Melchizedek, receives tithes from the spiritual seed of Abraham? "¦If our father, Abraham, felt it his duty to pay tithes to Melchizedek in response to the priestly meal and blessing he received, then how can we receive food and blessing from the same order of priest, but refuse a similar response of paying the tithe to our high priest?" (63-64).
b) "œThe paying of tithes to the Melchizedekian priesthood by Abraham clarifies to whom the Christian should tithe" (64).
"¢ To the One who is the fulfillment of the OT´s historical Melchizedek "“ Christ.
"¢ To His house, the church, the temple of God, where the High Priest according to the order of Melchizedek is present.
"¢ In the OT, the tithe is the Lord´s and is paid to His priest ministering in His house. The church is God´s house, His temple, under the NC. And the church is the exclusive agency on earth, legally authorized by Christ Himself, to represent the high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
b. Because of the way Christ dealt with tithing (Mt. 23:23).
1) Christ rebukes the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy.
2) They tithed the herbs, but neglected the weightier matters of justice, mercy, and faith.
3) He says they ought to have obeyed the tithing law and these weightier matters.
4) Pink, 7, "œBut while Christ acknowledged that the observance of justice and mercy is more important than tithing"¦nevertheless He says, these others ought ye not to have left undone. He does not set aside the tithe. He places justice and mercy as being more weighty, but He places His authority upon the practice of tithing by saying "œThese ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other [i.e., tithing of herbs] undone.""
5) Piper, Toward the Tithe and Beyond, "œSo Jesus endorses tithing: don't neglect it. It is not as essential as justice love and mercy; but it is to be done."
6) All of us would acknowledge that justice, mercy, and faith are duties for all of us. No one would argue that they are for the Jews under the OC alone. So with tithing because it 1) predates the OC and 2) it is clearly upheld in the NT by our next point.
c. Because the church is the temple of God and God has always funded His temple via tithing. It is designed to finance the priesthood and temple activities commanded by God.
1) Lev. 27:30-32 "œholy unto the Lord" = His!
2) Num. 18:25-26 Support of temple workers.
3) 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 2 Cor. 6:16; Eph. 2:19-21; 1 Pt. 2:6 Church is temple.
4) 1 Cor. 9:13-14 Pink, 8
a) Context: The right of the Apostles and other gospel laborers to be financially compensated for their gospel labors (vv. 4, 6-14).
b) v. 13 Paul goes back to the OT and how God provided for those who were temple laborers. Piper, Ibid., "œIn other words he reminds the church that in the Old Testament economy there was this system in which the Levites who worked in the Temple lived off the tithes brought to the temple."
c) v. 14 "œEven so"¦" Now he draws and application to the church from the OT system of providing for temple workers. Piper, Ibid., "œThe least Paul is saying is that those who spend their lives in the service of the Word of God should be supported by the rest of the Christians. But since he draws attention to the way it was done in the Old Testament as the model, it seems likely that tithing would have been the early Christian guideline, if not mandate. In other words when we tithe today we honor a principle and plan of God that sustained the ministry in the Old Testament and probably sustained the New Testament ministry as well."
d) Pink, 8, "œThe word tithe is not found in these two verses but it is most clearly implied. In verse 13 the Holy Spirit reminds the New Testament saints that under the Mosaic economy God had made provision for the maintenance for those who ministered in the temple. Now then, he says, in the New testament dispensation "œEven so" (v. 14) "“ the same means and the same method are to be used in the support and maintaining fo the preachers of the Gospel as were used in supporting the temple and its services of old. "œEven so." It was the tithe that supported God´s servants in the Old Testament dispensation: "œEven so" God has ordained, and appointed that His servants in the New Testament dispensation shall be so provided for."
e) Tithing, then, is assumed to be valid and expected for Christians under the NC.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Originally posted by joshua
I didn't ask about America. I asked about the true Christian Church.

youre equivocating. america = state = america = state

would you pay 2 tithes? and what you and i describe the true christian church to be is certainly not the same as what catholics, mormons or jw would say. so should we pay 4 tithes, 1 to each plus your church?

Amazing Matthew. Where did you get all of that from Joshua's questions? He said nothing of the sort. Is that the answer to his question?

Forget political constructs of separation of Church and State. Leave the State, leave Caeser, wholly out of the discussion.

Is the Church a theocracy? THAT is the question. Try to answer it instead of reading into the question what you think he is implying.

rich i answered that question in a previous post. further that is not the question. the question is whether tithing is binding on the nt christian.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
rich i answered that question in a previous post. further that is not the question. the question is whether tithing is binding on the nt christian.

You didn't answer the question and your confusion/defensiveness is evident even though I just jumped into the topic and read over it for 10 minutes.

Have you heard of the Socratic method? (and please don't accuse me of being pro-Socrates because I asked the question)

The question has relevance if you would merely begin to formulate an answer to the question. The issue has nothing to do with the Church being in theocratic control of the State.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

John McArthur´s Commentary - http://www.gty.org/bible_faqs/bible_content.php?qa=tithe.htm

Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government
(always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary). The issue has been greatly
confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes
were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel. Because Israel
was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe
(Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe
required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also
imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving
required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to
operate the nation. All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary
(cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no
percentage or amount was specified. New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe.
Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age,
which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay
between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government"”a figure very similar to the
requirement under the theocracy of Israel. The guideline for our giving to God and His work is
found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly;
and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed
in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."
1. The Encyclopedia Americana (s.v. "tithe"):
"It (tithing) was not practised in the early Christian church but gradually became common
(in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of
Tours in 567 and the 2nd Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by
civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century... The
Reformation did not abolish tithing and the practice was continued in the Roman Catholic
church and in Protestant countries (until it was) gradually replaced by other forms of
taxation. The Roman Catholic church still prescribes tithes in countries where they are
sanctioned by law, and some Protestant bodies consider tithes obligatory."
2. Hasting´s Dictionary of the Apostolic Church:
It is admitted universally that the payment of tithes or the tenths of possessions, for
sacred purposes did not find a place within the Christian Church during the age covered
by the apostles and their immediate successors.
3. The Encyclopedia Britannica (s.v. "tithing"):
The Christian Church depended at first on voluntary gifts from its members.
4. The New Catholic Encyclopedia:
The early Church had no tithing system ... it was not that no need of supporting the
Church existed or was recognized, but rather that other means appeared to suffice.
5. New Bible Commentary, Inter-Varsity Fellowship, p. 222
[Acts 18:1-4] It was regarded as proper for a rabbi to practice a manual occupation so as
not to make monetary profit out of his sacred teaching.
[1 Thess. 2:9] This policy [working night and day] not only reflected a desire to be
financially independent of those among whom they ministered, but it also marked them
off from the ordinary religious traffickers of the day, and showed the converts a good
example.
[2 Cor. 11:8] Paul is really indicating that he did not receive wages at all for preaching
the gospel. If what was given him for his support by other churches was to be regarded
as "˜earnings,' then he had in effect "˜robbed' them since the service given was not to them
but to the Corinthians.
[Heb. 7:18] Also, the priesthood was so fundamental to the Old Covenant between God
and His people (the whole relationship was constituted in dependence upon its ministry),
that any change in the order of priesthood must of necessity imply and involve a change
in the whole constitution; i.e. it implies nothing less than an accompanying new, and
indeed better, covenant.
6. Easton's Bible Dictionary:
It cannot be affirmed that the Old Testament law of tithes is binding on the Christian
Church...
7. Spiros Zodhiates, Th. D. - Key Word Study Bible (comments on Malachi 3:7-15,
p.1173):
This passage is often used by those who advocate "storehouse tithing"; that is, bringing
the "tithe" into God's storehouse (the local church), rather than giving it anywhere else.
They suggest that gifts to ministries other than the local church should be above the
"tithe." Certainly the "storehouse" in Malachi represents the temple or a building in the
temple complex. However, the OT "tithe" or "tenth" cannot be reasonably equated with
ten percent of gross salary or wages which most earn today. Above all, giving should be
a matter between the Holy Spirit and the believer, not a regulation. The "tithe" may be an
adequate guide for determining how much some people could give (indeed, for many in a
prosperous society, it is probably an inadequate level), but the amount of giving must be
a personal decision. The Apostle Paul wrote that God examines the motives for the
giving, not the amount (2 Corinthians 9:7).
8. C. I. Scofield - Scofield Reference Bible:
2 Corinthians 8 and 9, "In contrast with the law, which imposed giving as a divine
requirement, Christian giving is voluntary, and a test of sincerity and love.
9. Wycliffe Bible Dictionary of Theology (s.v. "tithe"):
The silence of the NT writers, particularly Paul, regarding the present validity of the tithe
can be explained only on the ground that the dispensation of grace has no more place for
a law of tithing than it has for a law on circumcision.
10. Chafer, Lewis Sperry, Major Bible Themes, Revised, rev. John Walvoord (Grand
Rapids: Academie Books), 253-55:
In matters pertaining to the giving of money, the grace principle involves the believer's
recognition of God's sovereign authority over all that the Christian is and has, and
contrasts with the Old Testament legal system of tithing which was in force as a part of
the law until the law was done away with (John 1:16-17; Rom. 6:14; 7:1-6; 2 Cor. 3:1-18;
Gal. 3:19-25; 5:18; Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14). Though certain principles of the law were
carried forward and restated under grace, tithing, like Sabbath observance, is never
imposed on the believer in this dispensation. Since the Lord's Day superseded the legal
Sabbath and is adapted to the principles of grace as the Sabbath could not be, so tithing
has been superseded by a new system of giving which is adapted to the teachings of
grace, as tithing could not be.
C. Their giving was not by commandment [1 Cor. 8:8], nor of necessity [2 Cor. 9:7].
Under the law, a tenth was commanded and its payment was a necessity; under grace,
God is not seeking the gift, but an expression of devotion from the giver. Under grace no
law is imposed and no proportion to be given is stipulated, and, while it is true that God
works in the yielded heart both to will and to do His good pleasure (Phil. 2:13), He finds
pleasure only in that gift which is given cheerfully, or more literally, "hilariously" (2 Cor.
9:7)....
D. The early Christians, first of all, gave themselves. Acceptable giving is preceded by a
complete giving of oneself (2 Cor. 8:5). This suggests the important truth that giving
under grace, like giving under the law, is limited to a certain class of people. Tithing was
never imposed by God on any other than the nation Israel (Lev. 27:34; Num. 18:23-24;
Mal. 3:7-10)....
F. God sustains the giver. God will sustain grace-giving with limitless temporal resources
(2 Cor. 9:8-10; Luke 6:38). In this connection it may be seen that those who give as much
as a tenth are usually prospered in temporal things, but since the believer can have no
relation to the law (Gal. 5:1), it is evident that this prosperity is the fulfillment of the
promise under grace, rather than the fulfillment of promises under the law. No blessings
are thus dependent on the exact tithing....
11. Mike Oppenheimer, Let Us Reason
The Pharisees said they have faith but they were more interested in the money, in fact
Jesus said: "œNow the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things,
and they derided Him." ( so did Judas John 12:5-6). Then Jesus scolded them saying
"œwhat is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God," and He then
summed it up by giving another parable--the rich man and Lazarus. The poor man
entered where the faithful were, finding rest in Abraham's bosom but the rich man
entered torment. The rich man was punished, not because he was rich but because he
lived for self, he had no compassion for poor Lazarus whom he walked by and ignored
each day as he sat by his gate.
The weightier matters of the law, what are they? The Christians are to focus on giving to
those in need. "œAnd the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these" (Mk. 12:31; Gal. 5:14).
"œBear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ" (Gal. 6:2). The principle is
to help others, especially the less fortunate brethren (following in principle Deut.14,26)
You'll notice that those promoters of tithing will always use the Old covenant law to justify
their teaching this method of blessing. What the prosperity teachers do is bring people
out from grace and under law. Under the New Testament covenant there is no specific
amount required to give, you determine the amount you can freely give. "œLet each one do
just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a
cheerful giver."
12. Dana, H. E., The New Testament World, 3rd. ed., rev. (Nashville: Broadman, 1937),
149, 217, 221:
Among the Jews professional life was limited. The one widely extensive profession was
that of rabbi, if profession it might be called, for most rabbis followed some trade or
secular pursuit for a livelihood, while devoting all the time possible to the study and
teaching of the law. . . . Every Jewish boy was expected to learn some trade. Rabbinic
tradition declared that "whoever does not teach his son a trade is as if he brought him up
to be a robber" (p. 149).
The prevalent use of tents [by travelers] made the tent-making trade a lucrative
occupation. One belonging to the same trade-guild, religious cult, or having any other
personal relationship to any resident of the locality could nearly always find welcome
more or less genuine in a private home. . . . This was the prevailing manner in which the
first Christian missionaries were provided for, though likely the entertainment was
tendered them without cost (cf. 2 John 10-11; 3 John 5-8) (p. 221).
13. C. F. Pfeiffer and E. F. Harrison - Wycliffe Bible Commentary:
[WBC; 1 Cor. 16:2] "By him" is probably a reference to the home; giving was to be
private giving. . . . This system would revolutionize present church customs! Paul´s
carefulness in money matters should be noted. He never appealed for money for himself
and did not even desire to handle money for others if there could be the slightest
question about it.
[WBC; Matt. 10:8-9] These ministrations were to be performed freely, without charge, for
their authority had been received in this manner. These instructions apply only to this
specific mission of limited duration.
[WBC; Acts 18:1-4] It was customary for Jewish rabbis not to receive pay for their
teaching, and therefore, Paul, who had been raised as a rabbi, had learned the trade of
tent-making.
[WBC; Acts 20:34] Paul reminded the Ephesians of his custom of making tents not only
to support himself but to provide for the needs of others with him. He quoted a saying of
the Lord which is not recorded in any of the Gospels, about the blessedness of giving. . . .
The main objective of giving in the early church was to provide for the needs of the poor
brothers rather than to support the preaching of the gospel as is the case today.
14. Rev. Paul Winslow of Valley Bible Church in Spokane, WA:
In the New Testament there is no mention of believers paying tithes, nor any command
that they do so. This makes sense since the Body of Christ is a spiritual kingdom, not
connected to any land at all, but spread throughout the whole world, its members being
neither Jew nor Greek but a new race of people in Christ Jesus. Therefore, it makes no
sense for believers to pay a tithe which was largely used in the Old Testament for
maintaining a system of priests, since all believers are priests and do not need a gobetween
themselves and God. Actually, believers are to consider that all they own and
receive economically belongs to God. For example, we are told we are not our own but
are bought with a price. Further, we are told that we are stewards of all that God has
given us, and that He has the right to tell us what to do with our time, resources, income,
etc. It may be advantageous for a New Testament believer to decide to give the Lord a
percentage of his income as a sort of guide or planned program for giving, and that
percentage might be 10%. But such a plan or percentage should be arrived at through
prayer with the Lord Himself, rather than an automatic acceptance of the Old Testament
tithe. Furthermore, New Testament truth makes it very clear that all believers are
responsible to care for widows and orphans and to extend hospitality to strangers in
whatever age or social economic structure they live in. Obviously, this varies greatly
depending on the individual circumstances of a Christian. At one point he might be a
slave and totally unable to do much in this area, and at other times a Christian may have
the freedom and capacity to do a great deal in this area. In conclusion, it is my prayer that
the Lord will guide each person in his stewardship of resources which the Most High God
has graciously provided us.
Valley Bible Church of Spokane, WA - Church's Financial Statement (from website):
Our goal is for the Lord Jesus to be Lord of our church body, and to have Him directing
VBC the way He chooses. As a result, Valley Bible Church has no senior pastor,
chairman of the board, or system of hierarchy. The elders perform the role of "finding the
mind of the Lord for this local church", and are simply a channel for the direction of the
Body... New Testament principles of giving form the guide for our financial policy. Those
who know and love the Lord Jesus Christ are asked to prayerfully consider the needs of
the ministries of VBC and give as the Lord Himself directs. Stewardship of money and
assets is equally as important and spiritual a matter as any ministry we may be involved
in. Love for the Lord and for His work constitutes the proper motive for giving or for
ministering. We believe the Lord has called this local church into existence, and therefore
we look to Him to supply our needs. The believer in Christ has the privilege and
responsibility of giving as the Lord directs, thereby investing material assets to produce
spiritual eternal dividends.
Pastor Jim Catlin of Valley Bible Church in Spokane, WA (excerpt from a personal
response letter to David Yeubanks) emphasis added by Pastor Catlin:
In fact, we NEVER mention the subject [of tithing] in the Body! However, we have talked
about how to handle the resources that God has entrusted to us in a righteous way. As
an example of where we are a little 'different' on that account is illustrated in our
recommendations regarding monthly bill paying. Many Christian financial advisors say
that you should 'give to God first,' you know, the idea of first fruits, and then you pay off
everyone else. Well, we humbly disagree because we believe that it is Biblical to pay for
those things that you already enjoyed the benefit from that month like electricity, gas,
water, sewer, basically retire your 'monthly debt', and then give to God. Would it be right
to make your payment to God while your neighbor who offered you a service or a product
in advance, trusting that you would reimburse them, goes unpaid? [E.g. Psalm 37:21:
"The wicked borrow, and do not pay back..."; Romans 13:7 - "Render therefore to all their
dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom..."; etc.] I know. It is a minor
point, but we are not very 'orthodox' when it comes to money matters. But as long as we
are Biblical, to the best of our humble intentions, we don't mind if we don't go with the
flow. One other 'unorthodoxy' is our lack of a membership list. In reality, no one is a
member of our church. If God leads you here, then fine. If He leads you to become
involved, fine. If you leave to serve Him in another place, fine. But a membership list
tends to put pressure on the Body to perform. It says, "Hey, you're a member so you
better act like a member." Sadly, that usually translates into the obligation to give. And
sadder still, into an obligation to give 10% 'because it's Biblical'. Sigh. Okay, one more
'unorthodoxy': we don't keep records of giving. Now we're getting radical! I haven't run
across ANY church that does this yet. Our reasoning is self preserving (from a spiritual
warfare perspective): who could handle knowing what people give? Who could handle
the temptation to condemn someone who is affluent but gives a paltry sum? Who could
handle the temptation to make a saint out of the widow who outgives the majority of the
Body because her amount is so sacrificial? Not me. And anyway, what do you
legitimately need the information for? Not the IRS. We have gone through that before,
and all we are compelled to do is issue receipts for any lump sum donations above $200
(or is it $250?). We write the receipt and only one person knows who and how much and
then we organizationally 'forget' all about it. I've told this to many church administrators
and they shake their head in disbelief! To this date, no one in leadership, not the pastors
or the elders, knows who gives how much. And we LOVE it that way. 'Nuff about church
finances. What a waste of attention span, wrestling over church finances, when we
worship a God of INFINITE resources. The Kingdom of God has never wanted for money
when, truly, the Kingdom of God was in need.
15. Ray C. Stedman - The Christian & His Possessions [sermon excerpt] (emphasis
added):
Giving is not only to be persistent and personal and premeditated, but it is to be
proportionate, "as he may prosper." Here is the New Testament replacement for the Old
Testament tithe. In the Old Testament, believers were asked to give 10% of their income,
a designated proportion, to the work of God. But, remember, that is the kindergarten
practice of giving. Men had to be told how much to give, specifically; it was put on a legal
basis. When you come into the New Testament you do not find the tithe carried forward.
But proportionate giving is definitely taught. All that Paul is saying here is that as increase
in prosperity comes there should be a corresponding increase in proportion. Not simply in
the amount, it is not to be any longer 10%, but the proportion increases as God has
prospered. Do not forget that in the New Testament we learn that the basis of our giving
is that we owe everything to God. We simply owe everything to him. The carnal, careless
Christian who really cares little about the Lordship of Jesus Christ snaps his finger at that
kind of truth and goes out and does as he pleases anyway. But the man or woman, the
boy or the girl, who has been to the cross and has been broken, who wants to please
God in all that he does, is ready to walk in glad obedience to the Lordship of Christ, he
will take time to consider what God has done for him and to calculate what he can do in
response to the goodness and the blessing of God. That is to be the basis of giving. Now
you can see that if we take this seriously it is going to make some demands upon us. It is
going to change our habits. But in the light of the blessings that we receive from Jesus
Christ we must not view these demands as burdens, but as privileges, for such they are.
16. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association:
"¦the question as to whether to tithe from one's net or gross income is not answered in
Scripture, nor is the question of whether to give it all to the local church or to include
other ministries. We feel that such decisions should be based on personal conviction"¦ It
(tithing) is not mentioned in the New Testament except where it is describing Old
Testament practices or in the Gospels where Jesus is addressing people who were under
the Old Testament law. Note Jesus' comments to the Pharisees in Luke 11:42"¦ A New
Testament teaching on giving which may be helpful to you is found in 1 Corinthians 16:2:
"On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in
keeping with his income." This passage brings out four points: we should give
individually, regularly, methodically, and proportionately. The matter of your giving is
between you and God, and He always takes into account our circumstances. He knows
when they are beyond our power to direct and control. The important thing is that we see
giving as a privilege and not a burden. It should not be out of a sense of duty, but rather
out of love for the Lord and a desire to see His kingdom advanced. Second Corinthians
9:6-7 says: "˜Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and
whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has
decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful
giver.´ The deeper question, you see, is this: What has priority in our lives? Is Christ really
first--or do we put ourselves and our own desires first? Make sure Christ is first in your
life, and then ask Him to guide you.
17. David Wilkerson - The Bountiful Servant (sermon excerpt - March 21, 1994):
I must warn you: If you focus on percentages with God, you might as well keep your
money. God does not honor any gift that is not given in joy -- willingly, out of a heart
overflowing with love! If you give only because you believe it is commanded -- or if you're
always wondering, "Is tithing a New Testament concept, or just Old Testament?" -- your
heart-attitude is all wrong! If you give 10 percent because the pastor asks it of you, that is
wrong also. None of this gets to the issue -- to the heart of what it means to give! One
man told me, "After I give my 10 percent, I can do whatever I please with the rest. And I
expect God to bless me as He promised -- because I gave my tithe!" No! Many are able
to give more than a tithe. And God wants us to give as we are able -- with generosity!
There is no place for stinginess among God's people.
18. R.C.H. Lenski - The Interpretation of I and II Corinthians (p. 1170-1172) emphasis
added:
The sowing is ever done on one idea alone, on the idea of blessings - blessings, praises
to God; blessings, benefactions to men; return blessings to ourselves. On no other basis
or principle does this sower operate. On this basis he reaps. He reaps all the blessings
TO GOD and all those TO MEN, and he reaps THE RETURN BLESSINGS THAT GOD
POURS OUT ON HIM"¦ The Catholic exegesis finds work-righteousness here, namely
the harvest as a reward of merit. But no man ever earned a harvest. God makes seed,
soil, sunshine, growth, ripening, and even the brain and the hand to place the seed into
the soil and to bring the increase home"¦ Without a verb and with none to be supplied
Paul adds: Each one just as he has chosen for himself in advance in his heart, not from
grief or from compulsion. The verb is the perfect middle, its voice brings out the idea that
the person choosed freely what he wants and would like to have for himself, whether he
wants a sparing return or one that is running over with all kinds of blessings. 'In Advance,'
fits the idea of sowing which is always in advance of the harvest"¦ The two phrases point
to source. In the whole matter of Christian giving nothing is EVER to be done from grief;
no one is to be sorry about letting anything pass out of his hands... Nothing is ever to be
given 'from compulsion,' from a feeling that one is forced to give, that he is being
robbed... Paul wants nothing but VOLUNTARY gifts for his great collection. He here sets
forth voluntariness as being the only true motive and principle of Christian giving. It
actuated the apostolic church (Acts 2:44,45; 4:22); it has ever distinguished true Christian
giving. A large amount of giving has been vitiated by not being free and voluntary. A large
number have had no faith or too little faith in complete voluntariness. They fear that this
will not bring the needed and the desired sums. So they devise substitutes, all kinds of
systems, schemes, and methods that seem to promise more than the giver's own entirely
free volition. Instead of depending wholly on such volition and stimulating it by means of
pure gospel motivation as Paul does here, they use a little or great deal of legalism which
acts as pressure, or they stoop to worldly, often rankly worldly, methods. So Christian
voluntariness declines more and more. The odor of legalism and of worldliness makes
the 'gifts' so obtained nauseating in the nostrils of God. The harvest of real blessings is
lost"¦ All legalism in giving or securing gifts is Romanistic. No one has yet surpassed
Rome in this direction. Many who think they hate Rome yet imitate Rome, and they
should give Rome due credit although they fail to do this. Tithing is Jewish. Applying a
little Christian varnish changes nothing. Paul was reared as a Jew. If tithing could have
been Christianized, the man who could and would have done it was Paul, and no better
opportunity offered itself than this great collection which he planned for all his churches
simultaneously. Paul shunned tithing. All the apostles shunned it. Not one word of Jesus
favors it. His very mention of tithing is severely derogatory (Mat. 23:23; Luke 11:42;
18:12). The only other mention of it in the New Testament is purely historical (Heb. 7:5-
9). Is this not enough? More than enough! 'Each one just as he has chosen for himself in
heart!'
R.C.H. Lenski - The Interpretation of St. Matthew's Gospel (p.907-909):
The scribes and the Pharisees were rigorists when it came to the easy features of the
Jewish regulations. They demand that tithes be paid of even the small flavoring herbs of
which a family might grow a few such as mint, dill, and cumin (obsolete: cummin), the
later being like anise seed but larger and used to a greater extent. But they dismiss, as
needing no attention at all, the real moral, spiritual parts of the law; and here Jesus again
mentions three points [justice, mercy and faithfulness]... All three refer to our relation to
our fellow-men. All three are both virtues of the heart and acts that grow out of these
virtues. All three are achieved by our covenant relation to Yahweh Eloheka (Mat. 22:37)
[the Lord God to whom we are to love with all of our heart, soul and mind], who by means
of His covenant grace plants the law into our inward parts (Jer. 31:33) [writing His laws
upon our hearts]. These parts of the law are weightier, essential, even as they are valid
for all men and for the church of all times, compared with the Levitical regulation of tithing
which was intended for the Jews alone, especially the tithing of mere flavoring herbs.
[Lenski continues by pointing out that one of the outstanding facts is that the Gospels
mention tithing only a few times; three times in condemnation of the Pharisees - all three
he comments to be "scathing in their severity" - and the other references, found in
Hebrews 7:5-9 are identified as "merely historical".] All though all of the apostles were
originally Jews, reared in tithing, with not one word did any one of them even intimate that
in the new covenant the Christians might find tithing a helpful method of making their
contributions to the work of the church. This strong negative is immensely re-enforced by
the totally different method suggested by Paul when called on the churches for a great
offering, 1 Cor. 16:1, etc.; 2 Cor. 8:4, etc. Exegetically and thus dogmatically and ethically
the New Testament is against tithing as a regulation in the new covenant. Desire for more
money also for more money in the church and for the church must not blind our eyes to
the ways employed for getting more money"¦ Jesus does not want to be misunderstood.
The new covenant has not yet been inaugurated, he as well as all his hearers are still
under the old covenant, and for that God himself had appointed tithing (Lev. 27:30, etc.;
Num. 18:21; Deut. 12:6; 12:22-27). If that tithing be done conscientiously, even in little
things, Jesus would not forbid it to a Jew. Jesus safeguards against perversions when he
adds: "These it was necessary to do and those not to dismiss."
R.C.H. Lenski - The Active Church Member (p. 161-164) emphasis added:
God has given us His divine Law, and the spirit of Christ, which is the spirit of faith and
love, freely uses God´s Law as a regulator of the Christian life. As Christians, however,
we are under the Gospel, and that means that with faith and love we voluntarily obey the
Lord and seek to do His holy will. Legalism is the name for all spurious [plausible but
false] law in the church. It is both the setting up of man-made laws in the church, and any
obedience to such laws. Jesus declares: "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for
doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9). And St. Paul warns us: "Ye are
bought with a price; be ye not the servants of men" (1 Corinthians 7:23). No church has a
right to make laws by which bind its members; and no member has a right to obey such
laws, and to allow his conscience to be thus bound. Both the church and the church
member are legalists when they operate their church activities this way. The state may
legislate; not, however, the church... Just as the Gospel alone rules in our hearts, so
Gospel methods, or evangelical methods, should alone be used in our church activities.
These methods use the power of faith and love alone, and no outward force. Hence
these methods have the mark of Gospel freedom about them. The church member does
what he does, of free will, gladly, gratefully, as a privilege. That is the evangelical
method"¦ The evangelical Christian goes to church from love of Christ, His Word, and
worship. Only where the Lord sees this in the heart is He pleased"¦ "¦no mere outward
performance satisfies the Lord, least of all doing what the Lord has nowhere Himself
commanded. And worst of all, to try to buy His favor is to insult His blessed grace,
through which alone His savings gifts can be made ours. Legalistic methods look
especially promising when it comes to getting money for the church"¦ Why not impose a
tax on the members, say a flat tax of so much per head, or a tax according to the
property of the members? Would not that insure the sum desired far beyond the
evangelical method of voluntary Christian giving?"¦ The trouble is, that though the money
itself might be secured in such a legalistic way, the Lord has no use for it. The only
money He will accept must come as a true offering made unto Him by willing hearts in
faith and love. Such offerings can be gathered only by using evangelical methods, never
by working legalistic ones.
R.C.H. Lenski - The Active Church Member (p. 175) emphasis added:
Wrong methods always tend to corrupt right principles, and thus hinder the blessings we
ought to receive. Right methods support true principles, help to show how beneficial they
are, and thus win the approval and blessing of the Lord.
19. Phil Enlow (Midnight Cry Ministries) - "What About Tithing?":
Many of our people give far more than 10% yet we don't even pass an offering plate and
rarely is the subject mentioned. God has blessed us abundantly over the years and
though we are small, we are debt free and supporting a worldwide outreach without
resorting to begging. We give God the glory! ...Although it is often said in a trite way it is
still true that we cannot outgive God. When believers learn to give to God in real faith
they enter into an area of grace and blessing that will spiritually strengthen them and
make them a blessing. Christians are cheating themselves in this and in many other
areas when they fail to learn the Lord's ways and enjoy the unsearchable riches of His
grace and the benefits of His great covenant.
20. William MacDonald - The Believer's Bible Commentary:
[BBC; Malachi 3:8-10 - emphasis added]
The NT teaches believers to give systematically, liberally, cheerfully, and as the Lord has
prospered them, that is, proportionately. But no mention is made of tithing..."
[BBC; 2 Corinthians 9:5 - emphasis added]
There was no thought that these funds should be wrung out of the saints as by extortion
but that it should be a manifestation of their generosity, given through their own free will.
[BBC; 2 Corinthians 9:7]
Each on is to give as he purposes in his heart. It will be necessary for him to consider
what is necessary for his own immediate needs. He will have to think of just obligations
which he will incur in the course of normal life. But then above that, he should think of the
needs of his fellow Christians, and of the claims of Christ upon him. Taking all these
considerations into view, he should give not grudgingly or of necessity. It is possible to
give and yet not be happy about it. It is also possible to give under the pressure of
emotional appeals or public ambarrassment. None of these things will do. God loves a
cheerful giver. It has often been pointed out that our word hilarious comes from the word
translated cheerful (hilarion).
[BBC; Ephesians 2:15 - emphasis added]
The church is new in the sense that it is a kind of organism that never existed before. It is
important to see this. The NT church is not a continuation of the Israel of the OT. It is
something entirely distinct from anything that has preceded it or that will ever follow it.
[BBC; Colossians 2:14 - emphasis added]
Paul now goes on to describe something else that was included in the work of Christ.
Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was
contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. The
handwriting of requirements that was against us describes the law. In a sense, the Ten
Commandments were against us, condemning us because we did not keep them
perfectly. But the Apostle is thinking not only about the Ten Commandments, but also
about the ceremonial law that was given to Israel. In the ceremonial law, there were all
kinds of commandments with regard to holy days, foods, and other religious rituals [e.g.
circumcision, sacrifices, tithing, etc.]. These were all a part of the prescribed religion of
the Jews. They pointed forward to the coming of the Lord Jesus. They were shadows of
His Person and His work. In His death on the cross, He took all this out of the way,
nailing it to the cross and cancelling it as a bill is cancelled when the debt is paid.
21. From the article "Thanks Be To God For A Nusiance - Martin Luther" emphasis
added:
Luther loathed, too, the globalist tendencies he saw in the Church, and perceived money
and capital transactions as fundamentally inhuman, ("˜he who touches money, touches
dirt´) realizing profit at the expense of human beings. He thought men might create an
economic system, which would preserve God's Creation and allow people to live together
in a self-determined manner.
Martin Luther, The Reformer:
Learn from me, how difficult a thing it is to throw off errors confirmed by the example of all
the world, and which, through long habit, have become a second nature to us.
Martin Luther (Sermon; August 27, 1525):
"But the other commandments of Moses, which are not [implanted in all men] by nature,
the Gentiles do not hold. Nor do these pertain to the Gentiles, such as the tithe..."
22. From the doctrinal statement of the Evangelical Church of Lutheran Confession in
Brazil:
The Lutheran church does not force on its members rigid rules of behavior. Rather, we go
by Luther's rule: "A Christian is a free person and master of all things - by faith. The
Christian a servant to all things and to all people - by love"... The IECLB is supported
through funds originating from voluntary contributions and gifts of the members of its
communities destined for community and mission work. Their is no mandatory tithing,
and church services, including baptism, weddings, sepultation, visitation, among others,
are rendered free of charge.
23. Francis Frangipane Ministries (statement concerning giving to their ministry):
One way we discern where the Lord is directing us is through the support He sends from
His people. Therefore we will make our needs known to our friends - but we will not
manipulate, plead or beg for contributions. We believe that no financial need justifies
dishonoring the Lord, His people or this work.
[It should be noted that Francis Frangipane is not personally opposed to the concept of
giving a tenth of your income to the local church; however, his own ministry does not
request support through this method. Additionally, Francis does not even receive a salary
from his home church, which he also pastors, only a housing allowance which as he
states, ""¦the housing allowance I receive, I then surrender to the work of the Lord. What
my faith possesses my humility surrenders"¦"]
24. Dr. Eddy Cheong (re: tithing) emphasis added by Cheong:
Let me say from the very beginning that there is a distinct difference between giving to
God and giving to "the church". Giving to God is a scriptural concept (Matt 22:21); Giving
to "the church" could just be an emotional response to a well-orchestrated man-made
appeal which is out of God's Will and God's Word. So it is important for us to study God's
Word so that we are able to discern whether funds being solicited in a particular church
are based on sound New Testament Scriptural principles. Prayer is the other means of
helping to discern God's Will in a particular area of financial need (of such a church)... In
fact, giving should be more appropriately termed "free will offerings" in the context of the
New Testament Church, for Paul commanded us to give as we purpose in our heart (2
Cor. 9:7). If the amount is a fixed one, there will be no need to purpose in one's heart
anymore!! I repeat there is no curse for "NOT TITHING" in the New Testament church (as
is often implied on sermons from Malachi 3:10-12)... Our Lord has fulfilled all the
requirements of the Mosaic Law and taken the curse of (not obeying) the Law away from
us (Galatians 3:13). The New Testament Christian should abide by the teachings of the
Apostle Paul (which has superseded Moses' Law.). Christians who insist on keeping the
Law of Moses or part of it are under a curse! Gal 3:10 - "All who rely on observing the law
are under a curse, for it is written: 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do
everything written in the Book of the Law.'" (NIV) Churches advocating tithing as
compulsory are putting a curse on their congregations! So in summary, 'Giving' is a New
Testament 'Church' Principle as opposed to 'tithing by Law' (by compulsion). Jesus
clearly commanded (take note that it was not an option) that we have to give to God. Matt
22:21 - "'Caesar's,' they replied. Then he said to them, 'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's,
and to God what is God's.'" (NIV) "What is God's" implies a fixed sum. BUT we must
remember that Jesus made the above statement in the context of the Mosaic Law which
was still existent in His Time. Further on in the epistles, the Apostle Paul qualifies this
"giving" as "from the heart" and proportionate to the degree that one is blessed. He
specifically spoke against "compulsion" (from sources outside). Manipulating a person to
give (whether directly or indirectly) is a form of witchcraft... 2 Cor. 9:7 - "Each man should
give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for
God loves a cheerful giver." (NIV) "What he has decided in his heart to give" clearly has
to be some amount (not zero). It may be ten percent or more. Well, it may even be less,
but give as the Holy Spirit directs your heart; NOT AS THE PASTOR DIRECTS YOU.
This is the distinct difference between giving to God and giving to the church.
[Dr Eddy Cheong is a Christian minister from West Malaysia. He is author of two books
and is also a medical specialist by profession.]
25. Gary Carpenter Ministries (from a message entitled: From Formula To
Relationship) emphasis added by Gary Carpenter:
God loves to prosper His people. His prosperity has much more to do with your
RELATIONSHIP with Him than it does LEGALISTIC FORMULAS. I suggest you ask
yourself the following questions if you truly desire to walk in more of His abundance: ARE
YOU SEEKING FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD? Do you spend daily time in the Word,
prayer and periodic fasting to seek the will of the Lord foryour life's call in His kingdom?
He has a plan for every member of His body. What is His plan for your life? What are you
doing to find out what that plan is? ARE YOU GIVING A PORTION OF YOUR INCOME
INTO GOD'S WORK? It will be hard to convince even yourself that you are very
interested in what God is doing in theearth if you are not sowing a portion of your
finances into the work of the gospel. Why do you want to prosper? To heap up treasure
for yourself? To see souls rescued from Hell? Whose kingdom are you most interested
in? His ... or yours? WHAT IS THE SIZE OF YOUR FIELD? Take inventory of your life. Is
your field already producing maximum harvest? Is it already "wallto wall corn?" Is there
any room for financial increase in the job you presently have? Has He already blessed
your current field to maximum harvest? WHAT CAN YOU DO TO SOW LARGER
FIELDS IN THE EARTH? Spend time in prayer and ask the Lord to show you if there are
additional skills He would like for you to acquire. You will find Him to be very practical. He
is a Living Lord and He is very capable of giving you precise instructions regarding what
you should do. Of course, to obtain answers like these requires more of us than simply
"plunking" our legalistic ten percent in the offering plate each Sunday. Answers to
questions like these require TIME in fellowship with the Lord Himself through the avenues
of the Word, prayer and fasting. NOW you are discovering the true path to prosperity. He
prospers His people through RELATIONSHIP, not FORMULA! He desires your fellowship
infinitely more than He desires your legalistic offering. For those who will spend time with
Him and obey His leadership, there are no limits to the level of prosperity He can bring
them to. Isa 48:17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the
LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou
shouldest go.
[Gary Carpenter is a minister to the body of Christ who expresses his calling as being
Prayer, Teaching and Kingdom Finances. He is also a prophetic voice in the body of
Christ and has a sincere heart to help teach Christians how to deal responsibly with their
finances and, more importantly, to seek the Lord for His heart in such matters. All of his
teaching tapes and printed materials are provided FREE to those that ask for them! His
website expressly states that those who are blessed by his ministry should not feel
obligated to donate any money to the ministry. He tells the story of how the Lord spoke to
him regarding his ministry and said, "Take up no offerings from these people. Sell no
tapes. Mail everything freely and do not even put in a return envelope. If you will precisely
obey these instructions of Mine I will speak to the hearts of the people I choose to
support both you and the needs of the ministry." He also talks about his initial hesitency
to take his ministry to the Web because of what it may cost him financially to maintain this
desire to provide all materials free to God's people. Of these concerns he struggled with
he states, "My thinking was, 'Lord, what if a 100,000 people all write in for tapes at once?
These tapes do cost!' I see now that this kind of thinking has a name... DOUBT AND
UNBELIEF! I say now, HIS WILL BE DONE! I have learned from experience over the
past two and a half years that the Lord certainly has the capability of financing whatever
He wants done in the earth. Apparently, He wants this ministry done... NOW! Amen! So
be it! The financial responsibilities are His, not mine. So now I move out in faith in Him
toward blessing you--ministering to you--helping you--and praying for you--by His Spirit.
Let His Ministry go forth through me, and then through you." Gary and his wife minister
on the principle that freely they have received and so freely they give, trusting God to
supply every need for His work. The ministry's website is located here:
http://www.garycarpenter.org]
26. Michael Clark (excerpt from the article: He Shall Suplly Your Needs) emphasis
added:
In 1970 my wife Dorothy and I went full time into a ministry that could not support us but I
felt that it was God's call just the same. We were in that ministry for six years. The first
year was the acid test. I prayed and fasted that the Lord would show me His will
concerning quitting my job to go "full time," and thought I heard Him say to do so. I had
the attitude that if God was my boss and husband, then He would meet our needs as we
were obedient to Him. I went to work for Him and expected my wages to come from Him.
These were terms that I could understand at the time and He honored my faith. In the first
year, He met all our needs and not only that, He paid off our house and gave us a car.
We even had a baby in that year and God paid off that bill, too! Often I would be handed
a blank envelope with money in it. I never had to panhandle any of His people for the
money, for I believed that this was not living by faith to do so. After all the Word says, "Be
anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let
your requests be made known to God." (Philippians 4:6, NASB). We are to first and
foremost make our requests to God and not men. God honored my faith and never let us
down. Grant it, at times he came up with the money for a bill at the very last minute, but
that just stretched my faith and made it grow. By the end of that year we were totally debt
free... I just wanted you to know that God is able to provide your every need from His
riches in glory in Christ Jesus...
Michael Clark - The Law and the Church (teaching excerpt):
You see the early never taught tithing or many of the rules either written or implied in our
churches today. They believed in the power of a changed life with its new heart to lead
the believer into all righteousness. And they also believed that God would supply their
every need from His riches in glory. Paul had to confront certain Jewish members of the
church for trying to get the Gentile believers to start keeping the law. He finally had a
show-down with them in Jerusalem and the outcome of it was the following decree. "œFor it
seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these
necessary things; that you abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from
things strangled, and from fornication: from which if you keep yourselves, you shall do
well (Acts 15: 28-29)." Wouldn't this have been an excellent time to lay down the law
about New Testament tithing? If this was a legal decree coming down from the rulers of
today's Churches and denominations, it would be at the top of the list! ...Don´t people
have faith in the ability of the Holy Spirit to lead, teach, and keep His people in the power
of a changed life and to convict them of sin where necessary? To listen to the teachers in
the Church today, you would not think so. Jesus promised to send us help in our walk
with God. "œBut when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth " ( John
16:13). "œBut the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will
teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you" ( John 14:26)
[Also read I John 2:20 & 27] When we, as well meaning Christians, set out to help the
Holy Spirit by giving our young charges in the Lord a set of rules to keep them on "œthe
straight and narrow," we often cause more damage than good. I remember what a thrill it
was to hear a young Christian tell me how depressing it was for him to try a marijuana
cigarette again after he got saved. "œI felt the peace leaving me and it was really a
downer," he said. He had found out for himself how the Spirit could lead him into walking
in truth. Paul warned the foolish Galatian church, "œIt is for freedom that Christ has set us
free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by the yoke of
slavery"(Gal. 5:1)...
[Michael Clark served the Lord in the capacity of full-time ministry for several years in the
70's during the "Jesus People" Movement. Currently he lives in Bayview, Idaho and
authors a number of prophetic teachings and articles and is not affiliated with any
organized, institutional-style group. He is a broken vessel that has been used by Lord to
touch lives through a resourceful website, personal ministry and has seen the miraculous
power of Jesus touch lives through prayer. He has a strong message to the body of
Christ to see intimacy with Jesus increase and move the Church beyond mere religious
practice to radical relationship with God and a restoration of what it means to truly be the
Lord's servant. His website is located here:
http://www.wildernessm.homestead.com/files/articles1.html]
27. Tony Badillo - Tithing, God's Command or Man's Demand (excerpt from the book)
emphasis added by Tony:
Here is an amazing paradox - incredible but true: Physical Israel received what is surely
the most bountiful, most fruitful physical land in all the earth. With the possible exception
of the Garden of Eden, there has never been a more productive land than the Promised
Land given to Israel. Indeed, God "circumcised" it with rain from heaven. And yet... The
heart of the Israelites themselves - the heart which is portrayed by the Bible as a piece of
land or ground - proved itself worthless, barren unfruitful, and hard as stone - fit perhaps
for growing only thorns and thistles. See now how God compares the heart of Israel as
unfruitful. And what does this have to do with tithing? Simply that a literal ten-percent tithe
was required to be paid from a physical land inheritance - a land which was, without
question, very fruitful. It was a high-yield land. In essence, the literal land was
circumcised by literal physical rainfall from an earthly heaven. But in contrast... Spiritual
Israel (Christians today), have NO LITERAL LAND INHERITANCE and hence, NO
LITERAL TEN-PERCENT TITHE is required - no, not at all. But you see, Christians too
have a high-yield land. Christians too have a circumcised land. But this is a spiritual land
receiving spiritual rain (the Holy Spirit) from the "heaven of heavens" which is God's
throne. And it is this Spiritual Rainfall which gives this Spiritual Land the Spiritual
Circumcision... Therefore, it is the spiritual fruit from this spiritual circumcision that God
really wants - and not a literal ten-percent tithe return from a physical land! And THIS is
the relationship between circumcision and tithing...
[Tony Badillo is a Christian brother, Bible teacher, and former member of the Worldwide
Church of God. He is author of the book mentioned above and also authors a number of
articles on church-related issues and has a heart for people who have been caught in the
deceptive teachings of the WCG and also those who have been robbed of their Christian
liberty by legalistic teachings in the Church.]
28. Hubert Krause and Orest Solyma - A History of Tithing from the Bible (excerpt from
the book):
A Further Look at Matt 23:23-34: By their meticulous attention to the physical, in this case
in tithing on the smallest of garden herbs, Christ described the Pharisees as "straining out
a gnat"-a reference to their practice of straining out their water so they would not
accidentally swallow a gnat, an unclean insect according to the Law. It was indeed laid
down in the Law that a gnat was an unclean insect to be avoided, but the point Christ
was making was that the Pharisees were unbalanced in their strict, legalistic application
of the letter of the Law, to the detriment of its spiritual intent, its "weightier matters" (v 23).
He condemned their attitudes and motives that were responsible for this legalistic
application of the Law. Yes, the Levitical law of the tithe was still operative, and Christ did
not dismiss their own adherences, though He did deal with their hypocrisy. However, the
added implication of His words is that their tithing law was in His eyes also a "gnat" in
comparison with the weightier considerations of the Law; that is, it was of minimal
importance when contrasted with God's great Law of Love. Certainly, He took no pains to
uphold it as having an ongoing universal application, for He could easily, in these verses
or elsewhere, have expounded upon the subject. Instead, if we look at the parallel verses
in Luke 11:41-42, we see that He commended the spiritual generosity of the heart and
the giving of alms over tithe-paying (cp. Matt 6:1-4; 19:20-22). Christ was saying to let
your heart-pure spiritual motives-determine your giving, both physical and spiritual, for
this is a reflection of the love of God, rather than the compulsory tithe (Lk 11:42). It is
interesting that Christ, while upholding the law of Moses, drew upon the tithing practices
of the Pharisees to demonstrate their preoccupation with burdensome ritualism to the
neglect of more important spiritual obligations. Principle and law, which have ongoing and
intrinsic value, are the ammunition of rebuke rather than arrogant traditions.
Hubert Krause and Orest Solyma - A History of Tithing from the Bible (excerpt from
the book):
Christ gave many discourses and parables with respect to monetary matters and financial
stewardship, yet never once did He indicate that: 1.) either He or His apostles were to be
the recipients of the Levitical tithe in the future; 2.) the Levitical tithe was obligatory for the
Christian; or 3.) the NT Church He was building would be supported or financed by tithes.
In the light of the fact that He, the High Priest of God, was the very cause for the changes
in the Levitical law. The reality is that Christ could not legally have received tithes during
His earthly ministry, as He was a Jew, of the tribe of Judah, not a Levite (Heb 7:14). The
Levites/priests alone were entitled to receive such offerings and tithes. There is no
evidence that He ever exacted tithes from anyone, and at one stage He had at least five
thousand people following Him (Jn 6:10) from whom He could have perhaps done so.
After all, the more people there are the greater the money. It was a fish that provided
even the shekel for the temple tax (Mat 17:24-27). Please note these simple principles:
Matt. 10:8 - "Freely you have received, freely give," is the message of the Gospel. Matt.
19:21 - The rich young man was to "sell what you have and give to the poor." Not to give
to the temple or to the Levitical priesthood still functioning, neither to Christ, nor to His
disciples. Isn't this an extraordinary demand? It is restated in Mk. 10:21 and Lk. 18:22.
Matt. 6:2-4 - Christ said that believers were to give alms, to help the poor and
disadvantaged. Lk. 6:38 - "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed
down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same
measure that you use, it will be measured back to you." Give compassionately,
generously, and voluntarily, and wisely but not because you are under coercion. Acts
20:35 - Luke records one of the great sayings of Jesus Christ which is not mentioned
anywhere else: "It is more blessed to give than to receive." And the context is Paul
speaking to a ministerial gathering at Miletus. Giving or tithing from feelings of guilt, fear,
self-compulsion, coercion, or superstition can hardly be approved of by God. I remember
as a lad being told that if I succeeded in doing 13 monthly benedictions I would be totally
exempted from purgatory. Similarly, some believe that if they faithfully tithe, they will be
given special material blessings. If one keeps buying lottery tickets one might win the
lottery. These modes of belief and behaviour are based on superstition and
covetousness. Giving is the outflow of godly discernment and belief without any
expectation of returns (cp. Lk 14:12-14; 5:27-32). Christ's parables of the pounds (Lk
19:12-26), the talents (Matt 25:14-30), the shrewd manager (Lk 16:1-12), and other
parables revolved around money matters (Matt 18:21-35). His teachings about Christian
stewardship never once connected these lessons to tithe-paying, let alone to any
obligation on the part of His followers then or today to pay tithes.
[Krause and Solyma are Christian lay-ministers from Melbourne, Australia and are part of
the fellowship known as the Church of God in Williamstown, Melbourne. They are former
members of the World Wide Church of God and have a website that posts a number of
articles and teaching resources for Christians in the venue of Bible study. They are
authors of the previously quoted book. Their website is located here:
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~sanhub/index_.htm]
29. Minister Raymond D. Sopp - Heart To Heart Commentary (Re: Tithing) - emphasis
added by Sopp:
[Re: Malachi 3:8-10] Many teachers of our day will point out with glee that this is the
ONLY place in the Bible where God allows us to test Him, as if we should be proud of the
fact that God gives us permission here to test Him. But at the same time they turn a blind
eye to the fact that throughout the Bible God actually deplores being tested. It is true that
God's permissive will allows us to test Him, but should His sons and daughters be
content with God's permissive will instead of His perfect will? As we read Malachi, we
discover that this was a time in history when all that God was receiving from His people
were their leftovers. Therefore, in order to deal with their hard-heartedness, God gave
permission for His people to test Him. Yes, even today this remains a great verse to
overcome hard-heartedness and raise money. But now as His sons and daughters,
should we be proud of the fact we still need to use this verse? Are we not in fact actually
exposing our own hard-heartedness by embracing God's permissive will in testing Him?
Let us compare this to another example in God's Word concerning His permissive will.
Matthew 19:7-8, "They said to Him, "˜Why then did Moses command to give her a
certificate of divorce and send her away?' He said to them, "˜Because of your hardness of
heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been
this way.'" Notice God's permissive will on divorce was formulated to deal with the
problem of our hard-heartedness. Certainly this is nothing for us to boast in. So we find
this duplicity today within God's Church. We wisely teach against divorce, although it's
permissible, yet shamelessly and with glee we continue to propagate the fact that we
have God's permissive will to test Him as it concerns our finances... What about the tithe
as it is defined as 10 percent of our income? The reason you will not find the word tithe in
the New Testament to describe the giving of our finances unto our Lord's work is that as
God's sons and daughters, we are to follow Jesus' example of complete surrender.
Therefore, to fulfill the tithe unto perfection (maturity), we must be willing to move from
God's permissive will into His perfect will, we must finance evangelism, the needs of
others, and the teaching of God's Word selflessly without an imposed limit. Not under
compulsion, but from a sincere heart, motivated only by love -- a love birthed by God's
Holy Spirit which now lives within us. 2 Corinthians 8:12-15, "For if the readiness is
present, it is acceptable according to what a man has, not according to what he does not
have. For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality, at
this present time your abundance being a supply for their want, that their abundance also
may become a supply for your want, that there may be equality; as it is written, "˜He who
gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little had no lack.'" Here
Paul clearly describes the perfection (maturity) of giving as being without a set limit...
[Source: http://www.soppministries.org/index18.htm]
30. Youth With A Mission (YWAM) International:
Youth With A Mission is a volunteer movement of thousands of Christians in hundreds of
locations that depends on God to motivate people to contribute their time and skills as
well as their financial resources. We welcome your financial participation.
31. Peninsula Bible Church of Palo Alto, CA (Financial Policy):
New Testament principles of giving form the guide for our financial policy. Those who
know and love the Lord Jesus Christ are asked to prayerfully consider the needs of the
church and give as the Lord Himself directs. Stewardship of money is considered equally
important along with all other areas of ministry and service, including the proclaiming of
God's Word. Love for the Lord and for His work constitutes the proper motive for giving or
preaching. We believe the Lord has called this church into existence, and therefore we
look to Him to supply our needs. All believers in Christ have the privilege and
responsibility of giving as God has prospered them, and as He directs them. Each of us is
thereby investing material gifts to produce spiritual, eternal dividends. PBC does not keep
a record of its contributors or the amounts they give other than that required by IRS
regulations governing the reporting of charitable donations. The board of elders believe
this policy insures impartiality and follows the scriptural guidelines that we are not to "let
the right hand know what the left hand is doing" in matters of giving, which is to say,
neither the elders nor staff know who gives what amounts. For tax receipt purposes, PBC
provides annual receipts for each individual gift of $250 or more. For individual gifts of
less than $250, a person's canceled check will suffice. In the case of special offerings for
Christian organizations, missionaries or specific ministries, a donor may choose to give
through PBC and remain anonymous or give directly to the organization, missionary or
ministry and be recognized. The elders encourage the latter course of action. (Revised
April 15, 1998).
[PBC´s estimated average annual church budget is well over 1.4 million dollars. That
budget is consistently met or exceeded yearly with only freewill, completely voluntary
offerings given to the church. PBC was founded in 1948 and continues to grow and be a
blessing to many people. An astounding tribute to the merit potential of love-motivated
grace giving principles as taught exclusively in the New Testament]
32. Church-of-Christ.org [Financial Statement]:
By what means does the church secure financial support? Each first day of the week the
members of the church "lay by in store as they have been prospered" (1 Corinthians
16:2). The amount of any individual gift is generally known only to the one who gave it
and to the Lord. This free-will offering is the only call, which the church makes. NO
assessments or other levies are made. No money-making activities, such as bazaars or
suppers, are engaged in. A total if approximately $200,000,000 is given on this basis
each year.
Q&A About The Churches of

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
rich i answered that question in a previous post. further that is not the question. the question is whether tithing is binding on the nt christian.

You didn't answer the question and your confusion/defensiveness is evident even though I just jumped into the topic and read over it for 10 minutes.

Have you heard of the Socratic method? (and please don't accuse me of being pro-Socrates because I asked the question)

The question has relevance if you would merely begin to formulate an answer to the question. The issue has nothing to do with the Church being in theocratic control of the State.

hey rich, youre right on 1 thing: you just jumped into it. the discussion if i may make clarification was related to whether or not tithing is binding on the nt church. my point was that (made in one of my earlier posts) the tithe was a theocratic tax paid to levitical priesthood. i stated that since we do not live in a theocracy we are not bound to paying tithes. the question was then asked if the church is a theocracy. i stated no. i said this simply in reply to the fact that in a nation that seperates church and state, a private institution does not govern and cannot impose regulations on secular entities. isreal was a theocracy, period. america is not. the church is not. a theocratic tax cannot be imposed in a democratic nation.

theocracy - A nation or state in which the clergy exercise political power and in which religious law is dominant over civil law.

does the above definition describe the country in which you live?

and yes i have heard of the socratic method. i am fully aware of the point josh was implying. my desire was to carry dialogue and not play guessing games until we arrive at a presupposed answer.

[Edited on 5-4-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

my point has been made. signing off...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Matthew,

I hope that long blurb was not a scholarly attempt to demonstrate something by quoting Billy Graham, Intervarsity Press, Catholic Encyclopedias, Bruce Wilderson, and other sources I would trust for nothing else and certainly not this subject.

While I respect John MacArthur for some doctrine, I think his treatment of the tithe is biblically incorrect.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

theocracy

n 1: a political unit governed by God (or by officials thought to be divinely guided) 2: the belief in government by divine guidance

So the Church is not governed by God nor by officials thought to be divinely guided nor does Matt believe that the Church receives any divine guidance....

Yes Matt, your point has been made.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by joshua

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
and yes i have heard of the socratic method. i am fully aware of the point josh was implying. my desire was to carry dialogue and not play guessing games until we arrive at a presupposed answer.

Wow. So, you're presuming that I have a cemented position on this? Please tell me what I believe, as I do not know yet.

josh we both know you cannot be neutral, no one can. by implication, i surmised your position as the following:

is the church a theocracy? -yes
if it is you are bound to pay a tithe to it.

is this not where your questions were going? if not forgive me...

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by SemperFideles
theocracy

n 1: a political unit governed by God (or by officials thought to be divinely guided) 2: the belief in government by divine guidance

So the Church is not governed by God nor by officials thought to be divinely guided nor does Matt believe that the Church receives any divine guidance....

Yes Matt, your point has been made.

rich why do you neglect the words "political unit" and "government"?

rich did you vote in 2004? on the ballot did it say:

republican
democrat
christian
mormon
jw

my point is that the church is not a governing body except over itself. it does not govern a nation like the levitical priesthood in israel. in congress there is the senate/h of r or church/senate/h of r?

btw, i do believe the church is divinely guided....

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I think some need to re-read Galatians 3-4 if they think the Law was ever some sort of "rule book" in its intent.

From a previous thread on this subject:

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16507

Originally posted by SemperFideles
10 PERCENT?! How am I going to make my house payment?!

Just kidding. I have to say that 100% of my income comes from tax dollars so I look at paying taxes in the same light as the tithe in one sense.

I think the exegesis of principles as to "Why Tithe?" is sound Ryan. You may also want to consider that Abraham tithed to Melchizedek. The pattern is established well before the giving of the Mosaic Law.

Like most things in the Law that we can Love because they reflect the character of God, the tithe is something that can be turned into a way of keeping the Body of the Law and turn into a curse.

Something I learned a while back that is very practical to me is the idea of discipline. The problem that many Christians have is that they view the idea of giving cheerfully as foreign because they have no established habit of giving.

I agree with others that we focus on the money but, frankly, that's where a lot of people need to develop spiritual discipline. When I first considered tithing many years ago, I thought there would be no way to give that amount of money every month. Once I began setting aside that money regularly, it became habitual. I'm not saying there's not a part of me that doesn't sometimes second-guess my decision to set aside the tithe every month but the habit is developed. As my "giving threshold" is already elevated, in terms of what I'm accustomed to giving, giving abundantly above that cheerfully is easier to do.

The same principle applies to almost all areas of life. I can relate to Paul's analogy of a person in physical training because of my regular exercise. I train my body every day so that it's ready for the semi-annual Physical Fitness Test. I'm 38 this year and I still smoke 18 year kids on the 3 mile run. Others my age who train only sporadically find the PFT to be quite painful.

The bottom line is that discipline is one of those things you do even when it seems like there is monotony to it. Some have a false idea that we ought to wait around until we're really motivated to do something. Training your body or your spirit is sometimes pleasurable in the moment but it usually feels like work. Tithing, in my humble opinion, is something we do to train our giving and should be the "regular exercise" that keeps our giving muscles healthy.

How's THAT for non-substantive exegesis?!

Originally posted by Contra_Mundum
The "discipline" ananlogy is ideal, in my opinion. Under the OT administration, God prescribed amounts (10% here, 10% there, firstfruits over there, etc.) for giving to the church. He also prescribed a tithe for "personal enjoyment/family recreation"--I'll let you find the reference.

What does this sound like? It sounds like a parent teaching his kid about handling money through disciplining him with respect to his allowance or other income. The parent is instilling "discipline." And we know that the Israelites were like children in their minority, under discipline, until the time of Christ.

Now let me tell you--you ought not need a LAW to instruct you any more as to what God wants. Beside the fact that "you are not your own, you were bought with a price," God is going to treat you like a grown-up. You have been disciplined. You have examples of giants like Abraham giving offerings to God. You have the whole Bible as a guide (assuming you need reminders) about giving.

Simply put--God is not going to put his desires for you into some form of "percentage" anymore. Christian, it's time to grow up. What do you think God wants you to learn from the teaching he left for you?

Amen again Bruce.

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by joshua

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Originally posted by joshua

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
and yes i have heard of the socratic method. i am fully aware of the point josh was implying. my desire was to carry dialogue and not play guessing games until we arrive at a presupposed answer.

Wow. So, you're presuming that I have a cemented position on this? Please tell me what I believe, as I do not know yet.

josh we both know you cannot be neutral, no one can. by implication, i surmised your position as the following:

is the church a theocracy? -yes
if it is you are bound to pay a tithe to it.

is this not where your questions were going? if not forgive me...

My point, Matthew, is that I'm not trying to make you positively believe anything (because, as has been noted a few times, I'm not sure), but to make you examine your position.

josh, i believe you have done this in sincerity. let me say that i have scrutinized my position, much as i have scrutinized my position as a calvinist. so far the opposing views have failed to convince me. let me clarify one thing: just because i am opposed to tithing does not mean i am against giving...

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Originally posted by SemperFideles
theocracy

n 1: a political unit governed by God (or by officials thought to be divinely guided) 2: the belief in government by divine guidance

So the Church is not governed by God nor by officials thought to be divinely guided nor does Matt believe that the Church receives any divine guidance....

Yes Matt, your point has been made.

rich why do you neglect the words "political unit" and "government"?

rich did you vote in 2004? on the ballot did it say:

republican
democrat
christian
mormon
jw

my point is that the church is not a governing body except over itself. it does not govern a nation like the levitical priesthood in israel. in congress there is the senate/h of r or church/senate/h of r?

btw, i do believe the church is divinely guided....

Matthew,

I thought you were done? Will you start a new thread if you'd like to know if I voted in 2004 and who was on the ballot?

Let me state this again, three times in three different ways:

1. Matthew - we're not concerned about the Church being in charge of the State.
2. Hey Matt! Forget about the State. We're talking about the Church and the Bible.
3. Dude! Get off the State thing. You're the only one bringing that into the discussion.

[Edited on 5-4-2006 by SemperFideles]

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist

Originally posted by SemperFideles
theocracy

n 1: a political unit governed by God (or by officials thought to be divinely guided) 2: the belief in government by divine guidance

So the Church is not governed by God nor by officials thought to be divinely guided nor does Matt believe that the Church receives any divine guidance....

Yes Matt, your point has been made.

rich why do you neglect the words "political unit" and "government"?

rich did you vote in 2004? on the ballot did it say:

republican
democrat
christian
mormon
jw

my point is that the church is not a governing body except over itself. it does not govern a nation like the levitical priesthood in israel. in congress there is the senate/h of r or church/senate/h of r?

btw, i do believe the church is divinely guided....

Matthew,

I thought you were done? Will you start a new thread if you'd like to know who I voted for?

Let me state this again, three times in three different ways:

1. Matthew - we're not concerned about the Church being in charge of the State.
2. Hey Matt! Forget about the State. We're talking about the Church and the Bible.
3. Dude! Get off the State thing. You're the only one bringing that into the discussion.

and let you have the last word? no way rich!

rich you cannot neglect the "state thing" because one of my justifications for tithing not being binding today is related to the tithe being a theocratic tax. so it cannot be circumvented...

 

[fivepointcalvinist]

Originally posted by joshua

Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist
let me clarify one thing: just because i am opposed to tithing does not mean i am against giving...

I don't think anyone has asserted such.

Let me ask you a question: What is, if any, the distinction between Israel and the Church? Would you agree with MacArthur in this regard?

i know but most do when i have this debate in person. so i just wanted to knock it out if someone did. as to dispensationalism, im not one to hold to that view. im teetering between NCT and CT. as of this moment, i think i hold closer to NCT, but this does not mean i am so confident that i wont listen to others. still studying....

[Edited on 5-4-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Your problem, Matt, is that you are defining theocracy according to a political unit. The issue of theocracy is simply who rules the Church. The defintion and specific context of theocratic rule (theocracy was introduced first by Josephus to describe the nation of Israel) is broader than your limited understanding of it.

Go read 1 Samuel again. Who was Israel rejecting when they wanted a King?

Why did Abraham give a tithe to Melchizadek?

The problem with MacArthur's dispensational theology (which is why though Reformed he agrees with all the other Dispensational sources you cite above) is that he treats the creation of the Law as some sort of body of rules and regulations peculiar to the nation and divorced from the Covenant of Grace. Paul, in Galatians, does not see it that way.