Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
Thoughts on street preachers
- Thread starter Pergamum
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Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
Similar, more obnoxious, acts are done by misguided Pastors. I'm certainly not going to dismiss the entire Baptist Church because of the actions of the Fred Phelps of the world.
Scott1
Puritanboard Commissioner
Somehow, I'm looking at this through the lens of the Apostle's experience.
Yes, their theology of salvation and their reliance on method are important items to contend for. I would look for opportunity to engage him, as a brother, trusting God for the results.
But if he is preaching a straight Gospel, and condemning sin, I would only privately encourage, admonish, and engage the brother and not oppose him publicly.
God uses people who are offensive, with wrong practices, insensitive, and ignorant... thankfully salvation is not dependent on our perfection.... and all praise be to God for that!
waynedawg
Puritan Board Freshman
Tom is right on here.
Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He didn't add any conditions to that command. Why would we?
Thanks
heartoflesh
Puritan Board Junior
Albert Martin started out preaching on the street corner when he was 18.
Please reread post #12
The Reformed confessional view is that Jesus calls men through the ministry of His Word, and that ministry is an office of the church, and office holders are 'called and approved'. The Reformed confessional view does not hold that preaching is exclusively the calling of pastors and elders, however, "others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it." (LBC 26:11)
Hope that helps.
Willem van Oranje
Puritan Board Junior
As an occasional street-preacher myself, let me say that although there may be more effective methods, this is not a reason not to street-preach. John Wesley and George Whitefield engaged in street-preaching. There are people who may not hear the gospel another way--who may not darken the door of a church, listen to Christian radio, or have any Christian friends. We should preach on the streets, but not only on the streets. Let us preach in pulpits, in the streets, in parks, on the radio, on tv, in chapels, and anywhere else we may find opportunity. I would say the same about going door to door. We should do it, but not only that.
I used to preach on the street in Utah in front of the LDS Missionary Training Center, and in downtown Salt Lake City. Most of the time my loud utterances led to lengthy one-on-one conversations. For broadly exposing people to the gospel who had never heard it before, it was hard to beat. In addition to the potential evangelistic impact, I would encourage all Christians to do this occasionally because it is such a great experience. Preaching on the street to strangers makes you overcome your fears about being looked down upon for the sake of the gospel or being seen as peculiar, and helps light the fire of fervency for the cause of Christ. Once this energy is ignited in Christians it can be used in a multitude of different endeavors.
I used to preach on the street in Utah in front of the LDS Missionary Training Center, and in downtown Salt Lake City. Most of the time my loud utterances led to lengthy one-on-one conversations. For broadly exposing people to the gospel who had never heard it before, it was hard to beat. In addition to the potential evangelistic impact, I would encourage all Christians to do this occasionally because it is such a great experience. Preaching on the street to strangers makes you overcome your fears about being looked down upon for the sake of the gospel or being seen as peculiar, and helps light the fire of fervency for the cause of Christ. Once this energy is ignited in Christians it can be used in a multitude of different endeavors.
Marvin Torgeson
Puritan Board Freshman
When it comes to street preaching, its pretty obvious that if they (Christian street preachers) can do it with passion, conviction and love they have a calling to preach the gospel. Now, there are the Caveats we all know, the Mormons and JW's can preach too, and so do other cults at times and various heretical groups. Because external things can be imitated by the ungodly.
There are bad street preachers....the bad ones are not bad ...
because they preach on hell and damnation
or preach against the cultural sins
or preach against cults or warn of false teachers
or because they get in-your-face
Bad street preachers preach legalistically to the crowd. Ethical warnings, exhortations, offers of grace that are given in such a way that creates the idea that Christianity is just another 'religious group' that is telling man what to do to be good and go to heaven. Bad street preachers preach a love-message without preaching the sin that alienates them from God. Bad street preachers allow the fear of being rejected to temper their message so that they will not be so offensive to the unbelieving crowds. Bad street preachers do not develope the message of grace upon the backdrop of law and sinfulness.
They either develope law and sinfulness and then cover the grace of God with a covering of 'earning it by repenting and going to church'; or they preach so much on the love of God and kindness of God that there is no backdrop against which the undeserved kindness of God is to be understood. People will actually walk away going " I know God loves me cause I do such and such thing".
Good street preachers preach righteousness by faith, their sins have seperated them from God, judgment for sins is coming,
forgiveness of sins is available. Good street preachers present the gospel, present the law, and call for immediate repentance and
belief. Good street preachers are bold to tell people that there is nothing they can do to save themselves. Jesus alone has come to save them, faith in Jesus alone will save them. Good street preachers present the grace of God to the unbelievers in such a way that they realize(by the power of the Spirit) God will forgive sins and will be merciful simply because God has determined to save people and bring them to himself.
Ive preached in the streets for years, Ive done one on one and handed out tracts. Ive used megaphones and Ive yelled it out. Ive listened to the Spirit of God to take me exactly person to person to witness Christ. Ive knocked on doors and preached at parks. Ive preached from the back of the Van and used interpreters in Mexico.
Engaging the crowds requires skill and boldness. Getting folks to listen when your dealing with sin and evil is difficult.
Even moreso over the last 10-15 yrs now where hecklers are just as bold and you cannot tell who is a heckler.
I dont do much street preaching now simply because the results are very slim. Fewer and fewer will ask questions or want to be prayed for. More and more hecklers and more and more confrontations lead to the cops coming and taking everyones mind off of the gospel and on to the 'drama'. Now thats not to say that street preaching is by-gone, Im saying that its difficult at best.
Those who are street preaching and know they love to do it and know they need to do it, should be greatly appreciated and offered whatever training and help they can get. Usually street preachers are the 'worst' of the preaching candidates that church has to chose from. Worst because they are confrontational, strong, bold, blunt and have little interest in mens opinion of them.
Churches that want polish, politic and professionalism dig from shallower and safer pits.
My best offering to a congregation is a seminary trained street preacher...but then again no ones asking me.
---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
Joshua: Ad nauseum to you is not necessarily that way for everyone especially new-bies.
Confessions will never replace God-calling and confessions though important dont serve God, they serve the Body. Meaning that God doesnt require the WCF or any other confession to call and anoint his ministers where no such confessions are available or taught. Even then, God still doesnt need our permission to send his chosen man anywhere anytime and in any spiritual condition.
This is not to undo confessions or the necessity of them, but it must be realized that the Sovereign God may in his way determine to bless the body by the use of confessions, but confessions do not serve God nor do they provide criteria for Him.
Remember that God gave us the Calvin before he gave us the institutes. He gave us Paul before he gave us the letters.
God brings the man to Himself first, then afterward he receives the mans offering.
There are bad street preachers....the bad ones are not bad ...
because they preach on hell and damnation
or preach against the cultural sins
or preach against cults or warn of false teachers
or because they get in-your-face
Bad street preachers preach legalistically to the crowd. Ethical warnings, exhortations, offers of grace that are given in such a way that creates the idea that Christianity is just another 'religious group' that is telling man what to do to be good and go to heaven. Bad street preachers preach a love-message without preaching the sin that alienates them from God. Bad street preachers allow the fear of being rejected to temper their message so that they will not be so offensive to the unbelieving crowds. Bad street preachers do not develope the message of grace upon the backdrop of law and sinfulness.
They either develope law and sinfulness and then cover the grace of God with a covering of 'earning it by repenting and going to church'; or they preach so much on the love of God and kindness of God that there is no backdrop against which the undeserved kindness of God is to be understood. People will actually walk away going " I know God loves me cause I do such and such thing".
Good street preachers preach righteousness by faith, their sins have seperated them from God, judgment for sins is coming,
forgiveness of sins is available. Good street preachers present the gospel, present the law, and call for immediate repentance and
belief. Good street preachers are bold to tell people that there is nothing they can do to save themselves. Jesus alone has come to save them, faith in Jesus alone will save them. Good street preachers present the grace of God to the unbelievers in such a way that they realize(by the power of the Spirit) God will forgive sins and will be merciful simply because God has determined to save people and bring them to himself.
Ive preached in the streets for years, Ive done one on one and handed out tracts. Ive used megaphones and Ive yelled it out. Ive listened to the Spirit of God to take me exactly person to person to witness Christ. Ive knocked on doors and preached at parks. Ive preached from the back of the Van and used interpreters in Mexico.
Engaging the crowds requires skill and boldness. Getting folks to listen when your dealing with sin and evil is difficult.
Even moreso over the last 10-15 yrs now where hecklers are just as bold and you cannot tell who is a heckler.
I dont do much street preaching now simply because the results are very slim. Fewer and fewer will ask questions or want to be prayed for. More and more hecklers and more and more confrontations lead to the cops coming and taking everyones mind off of the gospel and on to the 'drama'. Now thats not to say that street preaching is by-gone, Im saying that its difficult at best.
Those who are street preaching and know they love to do it and know they need to do it, should be greatly appreciated and offered whatever training and help they can get. Usually street preachers are the 'worst' of the preaching candidates that church has to chose from. Worst because they are confrontational, strong, bold, blunt and have little interest in mens opinion of them.
Churches that want polish, politic and professionalism dig from shallower and safer pits.
My best offering to a congregation is a seminary trained street preacher...but then again no ones asking me.
---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------
Joshua: Ad nauseum to you is not necessarily that way for everyone especially new-bies.
Confessions will never replace God-calling and confessions though important dont serve God, they serve the Body. Meaning that God doesnt require the WCF or any other confession to call and anoint his ministers where no such confessions are available or taught. Even then, God still doesnt need our permission to send his chosen man anywhere anytime and in any spiritual condition.
This is not to undo confessions or the necessity of them, but it must be realized that the Sovereign God may in his way determine to bless the body by the use of confessions, but confessions do not serve God nor do they provide criteria for Him.
Remember that God gave us the Calvin before he gave us the institutes. He gave us Paul before he gave us the letters.
God brings the man to Himself first, then afterward he receives the mans offering.
Willem van Oranje
Puritan Board Junior
There is an important distinction between "preaching" in the formal sense of an approved minister preaching the Word of God as an act of stated worship in the Christian Church, and just the proclamation of the good news of salvation in Christ by Christians who are addressing the unchurched, which can take many forms, and is also sometimes called, "preaching" if he or she is talking to many people at one time. Similar to the way the words "apostle" and "deacon" are sometimes used in the New Testament in a strict sense of a particular church office, but at other times these words are used in a more general sense not connected with the formal office of apostle or deacon, respectively. Street "preaching" ought to be take in the more general sense of the word since it is performed outside the church, primarily to unbelievers, and that it is often not an activity which is conducted formally or authoritatively on behalf of the church or in the church's name. It can be in a sense just an outgrowth of a Christian's desire to communicate the reason for the joy he or she has inside and talk to people about it who don't know, something one does as part of a lifestyle of Christian witness. In this sense I do not believe it is required for a "street preacher" to be set aside as if this were a particular ministry. However the ministers of the word should labor to equip their congregations to be an effective witness in the world so they can communicate effectively when they have opportunity.
Willem van Oranje
Puritan Board Junior
Francis Turretin--
23rd questionOf how many kinds is the call to the ministry and is an ordinary call always necessary? We distinguish
...II. First, we take for granted that it is not treated here of the general call to Christianity, by which men are called to the church and which is common to all believers; but of the special call to the ministry which is peculiar to pastors, by which certain men are selected for the public ministry and (their life and doctrine having been approved) are consecrated to God by a sollemn ceremony and put in possession o fthe office. Nor do we treat concerning the private preaching of the gospel, by which individual believers are bound by the common law of love to teach, to admonish and to lead their brethren and neighbors to faith and salvation; but concerning public preaching with authority, the necessity of which is laid upon those who by a special call are consecrated to the public work of the ministry.
23rd questionOf how many kinds is the call to the ministry and is an ordinary call always necessary? We distinguish
...II. First, we take for granted that it is not treated here of the general call to Christianity, by which men are called to the church and which is common to all believers; but of the special call to the ministry which is peculiar to pastors, by which certain men are selected for the public ministry and (their life and doctrine having been approved) are consecrated to God by a sollemn ceremony and put in possession o fthe office. Nor do we treat concerning the private preaching of the gospel, by which individual believers are bound by the common law of love to teach, to admonish and to lead their brethren and neighbors to faith and salvation; but concerning public preaching with authority, the necessity of which is laid upon those who by a special call are consecrated to the public work of the ministry.
Marvin Torgeson
Puritan Board Freshman
Riley: I think this differentiation is important to bring out. Ruling the flock of God and feeding it, training it and protecting it
involve much more than the knowledge of the gospel message. A few street preachers are pastors, but the majority are not.
Qualifications for Pastoral ministry are much more detailed..1 Tim 3. Yet, street evangelism is not spelled out in scripture
as requiring 'ordination' or approval from a governing body. Yet, I would round up all the street preachers and give them some valuable doctrinal training, speaking lessons and some teaching on ethics. Then send them right back out the door.
To me when someone says that street preaching is 'not a particular ministry' to me, they haven really done much street preaching or hasnt taken it on as a God-given calling. Street preaching can be relegated to some few who go out on a week end and spend a few hours at a Mall or Park or downtown. Examples can be found for this and the "professional" ministers think little of it.
Those street preachers who have gone long in years to preach the gospel in various places, towns, streets, Malls, parks, events, beaches etc turn it into a viable ministry. What you interceed for, what you seek God for, what you sacrifice for and hazard your security and your 'reputation' for must be considered a 'particular ministry'.
Speaking in general to everyone here....
This is an important thing to recognize by the local Pastor. He may have an evangelist on his hands, he may have a God-called Church leader up-coming. But he will never know if he trivalizes that young mans seriousness to preach the gospel and hazard himself to do it. A leader looks for the workings of God within the lives of his congregation and when he finds a specimen that shows the fruit of the Spirit in that way he should see to it the street preacher is advantaged by the leadership, training and is prayed for.
The pharasees believed John the Baptist to be a prophet, but they couldnt stomach his truth, nor could they invite him into their
homes. John broke the mold, he was out of the box, he didnt shibboleth with the rulers. Every street preacher admires John the Baptist because of the hardness which John stood against.
Telling some street preacher that he is not approved, or that he is not "set apart" unto ministry is like asking Jesus "by what authority" do you do these things. If you want confessions to help that young preacher, if you want the congregation to approve that street preachers ministry then you had better come at him with some real serious zeal yourself. He wont for a minute sit still and let a congregation of sleepers tell him to sit down and shut up. He will recognize that pastor for the lousy job he's doing in not inspiring the congregation to be zealous of good works and be diligent to proclaim the gospel in all its various forms. He will look at the hypocrisy and conclude this pastor has nothing to offer except discouragement.
If he meets a pastor that has done his job and God has raised up young new zealous men he will want to know them and want to hear what that pastor has to say. He can indentify with the pastor as a man that cares about the lost. Like passion attracts like passion.
Evangelists are very individualistic. Ive never met an evangelist that is not a solitary person. Evangelists go it alone so much that its strange when a pastor takes interest in them. The truth be known, a pastor for the most part doesnt know what to do with an Evangelist. The problem lay in the fact that the pastor has a strong leader with a strong passion and is willing to preach the gospel in bold ways...yet....that same pastor cant groom him for 'associate pastor' role. He wont fit. The pastor may not want to invest time into the young Evangelist because he's too pointed, or confrontative to weak sheep. The Evangelist isnt interested in
administrative duties where sister so and so is paid to clean offices.
Some have gone so far as to exclude the office altogether because the Evangelist wont fit the "Pastors box". Its a shame but its
out there.
---------- Post added 03-20-2010 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 03-19-2010 at 11:39 PM ----------
Joshua: God calls men not confessions. God has his own word which is backed by his authority. You know this.
God makes the man, calls the man and fits the man for divine use. Confessions are a tool, they are not a door to the ministry. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
If we determine that our confessions, tradition or governments are the criteria for God, we only need look around us. God is breaking the rules everywhere, everyday. They mean nothing to him.
"we saw one casting out devils and we forbid him".....Jesus said "forbid him not"
Before anyone decides that Im anti-confessional. Dont waste your typing time. I love the confessions. I just dont replace the Holy Spirit with a confession. I dont replace the Divine call and providence with litmus tests that only serve to seperate brothers from brothers.
The fact that we can disapprove someone based upon not following a 'confession' proves we have an operable tool to help us
remain faithful. But when the confession is built into an iron-clad wall to disapprove and scorn others who have not had the opportunity to gain our advantage of learning we show that we have replaced the Spirit of God with a non-discerning format for cookie cutter Christianity. God will always (look at your history) chose his own and make them his own without our criteria.
christianyouth
Puritan Board Senior
Pergamum, we had a really great discussion on this awhile back.
http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/park-evangelism-48909/
Good to see a lot of new posters in this thread.
http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/park-evangelism-48909/
Good to see a lot of new posters in this thread.
To all concerned:
If you want to use the word 'preaching' to describe an activity done without regard to calling and approval by the church, you are using the word 'preaching' in an unconfessional manner. No one is arguing against Christians sharing the gospel or their testimony or their faith. The argument is against the unconfessional use of the word 'preaching'. Undoubtedly, the word 'preaching' is used differently today than it was 400 years ago. Nevertheless, this is a board dedicated to the Reformed confessions. How are we going to discuss things confessionally if we don't protect the confessional definitions?
If you want to use the word 'preaching' to describe an activity done without regard to calling and approval by the church, you are using the word 'preaching' in an unconfessional manner. No one is arguing against Christians sharing the gospel or their testimony or their faith. The argument is against the unconfessional use of the word 'preaching'. Undoubtedly, the word 'preaching' is used differently today than it was 400 years ago. Nevertheless, this is a board dedicated to the Reformed confessions. How are we going to discuss things confessionally if we don't protect the confessional definitions?
Rich Koster
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
Willem van Oranje
Puritan Board Junior
"Street preaching" need not be offensive.
There are some "street preachers" who are intentially offensive, and this is wrong.
One tactic I have used is to mention God's judgment on sin (i. e. eternal damnation in hell) as something that we all deserve. In other words I was careful to make clear that I deserve to go to hell just as my hearers do. I'm sure some were offended at the idea that they are sinners deserving to be punished eternally in hell, but they couldn't say that I was looking down on them.
Communicating this way I would actually get people responding with questions or opposing arguments that they would shout back!
There are some "street preachers" who are intentially offensive, and this is wrong.
One tactic I have used is to mention God's judgment on sin (i. e. eternal damnation in hell) as something that we all deserve. In other words I was careful to make clear that I deserve to go to hell just as my hearers do. I'm sure some were offended at the idea that they are sinners deserving to be punished eternally in hell, but they couldn't say that I was looking down on them.
Communicating this way I would actually get people responding with questions or opposing arguments that they would shout back!
I know you would rather speak in generalities, but if you are going to level accusations of shameful behavior you need to do so specifically. Who are these 'some' to whom you refer? Posters in this thread or others outside of PB?
waynedawg
Puritan Board Freshman
Thank you.
---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------
Sorry - I'm real new here (and in the reformed faith) and still trying to navigate through all the different threads. Thanks for the links!
---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------
Sorry - I'm real new here (and the reformed faith too) and trying to navigate through all the different topics is almost over whelming. Thanks for the links!
Willem van Oranje
Puritan Board Junior
Joshua,
Thank you for these links, particularly those from the Ordained Servant. I read them with surprise for this was the first of this kind of idea I had read from the official publications of the OPC. Rev. Dennison's idea of the role (or lack thereof) of laypersons in evangelism does seem to be quite out of step with the position of the OPC foreign missions committee.
How so? The OPC actually ordains ministers to the office of Evangelist. They are ordained by the Presbytery and sent to their respective fields. Can you point me to something that the Foreign Missions Committee has stated otherwise?
Mushroom
Puritan Board Doctor
Aah! The sad effects of existentialist thought on the modern mind! Could this be any more unbiblical? "We're all free to do as we please!" My dear canine neighbor, did you read the membership requirements of this board before joining? Or did you ignore those inconvenient stodgy old herd mentality rules and join anyway, thinking you would write your own as you went along?
Uncalled for Brad.
If he was actually doing as most people pleased he wouldn't be interested in fulfilling the Great Commission at all.
Southern Presbyterian
Puritan Board Doctor
Moderator
Time to take a break from this one folks.
/Moderator
Time to take a break from this one folks.
/Moderator
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