The timing of the Fall of Satan and the Evil Angels in relation to man

[Pergamum]

How much sooner did Satan and the evil angels fall prior to man? Right after the Creation week? At the same time as man? Any hints as to how quickly the timing was between the time Satan fell to when the evil angels followed him? Any info or thoughts on this rebellion?

And what about Satan getting kicked out of heaven? And about the evil angels reserved in chains of darkness? In Job Satan still makes visits and in the NT demons still bother people?

 

[Leslie]

It's my understanding that the scriptures are silent on this.

 

[Pergamum]

What can be inferred?

 

[Peairtach]

The angels may have been created long before the creation week. In Job it talks about them rejoicing in God's founding of the Earth.

I'd always assumed that the creation of the angels and God's Heaven, and the Fall of the angels, happened long before creation week. Satan seems to be established and settled in his wickedness by the time he tempts the woman, and is called "that Ancient Serpent" in Revelation. I don't see the creation of God's Heaven, the angels and the Fall of the angels being "squeezed" into, or implied in creation week. But the Scriptural data is scanty.

In great "cosmic drama" of the battle between good and evil, the Earth, more specifically Man, and even more specifically Christ, was God's prepared answer to the angelic rebellion, and the means by which He would supremely be revealed and glorified.

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[Pergamum]

So there were created things before the Creation week?

 

[earl40]

So there were created things before the Creation week?

In my most humble opinion the answer is no. Here is why I think such. Satan is a temporal being and I base this on scripture saying he goes from one place to another and that God is the only being outside of time.

To the original question. In my most humble opinion satan fell the fist day. Augustine said that in Genesis, where God separated the light from the darkness was when God separated the angels from the demons. I tend to think he may be correct in that this separation happened before the creation of the sun moon and stars. If correct the angels were created "In the beginning" and fell before the rest of creation that was to be formed. Also this is my basis for believing in a VERY old earth.

 

[Peairtach]

So there were created things before the Creation week?

The Heavens and Earth may have been created before the natural world was formed and filled on the Six Days of Creation. The Days of Creation say nothing about the creation of Go's Heaven, the angels, the Fall of the angels or the creation of Hell prepared for the Devil and his angels.

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[BarryR]

I would agree that the scriptures are silent on the issue of which day the angels fell, but it was during one of the days. In the Larger Catechism the topic of angels and their fall in relation to creation, providence and the fall of man are ordered perfectly, In my humble opinion.

Q 15. What is the work of creation?

Q16. How did God create angels?
A: God created all the angels spirits, immortal, holy, excelling in knowledge, mighty in power, to execute his commandments, and to praise his name, yet subject to change.

Q. 17. How did God create man?

Q. 18. What are God's works of providence?
A. God's works of providence are his most holy, wise, and powerful preserving and governing all his creatures; ordering them, and all their actions, to his own glory.

Q. 19. What is God's providence towards the angels?
A. God by his providence permitted some of the angels, willfully and irrecoverably, to fall into sin and damnation, limiting and ordering that, and all their sins, to his own glory; and established the rest in holiness and happiness; employing them all, at his pleasure, in the administrations of his power, mercy, and justice.

Q. 20. What was the providence of God toward man in the estate in which he was created?

Q. 21. Did man continue in that estate wherein God at first created him?

Creation
Creation of angels
Creation of man
WORKS OF PROVIDENCE (gives us a foundation and a comfort as to why things will go south)
Fall of angels
Fall of man

The Larger Catechism, answering Christian's questions since 1648.

 

[Pergamum]

Yes, I have always held that the angels had to be created during that first week (early in the week).

But I am toying with the idea that "The Fall" happened as one large event. The Fall of Satan, the angels, and Adam and Eve all happened in relatively close time proximity. God seems to have cursed Adam and Eve directly following the transgression without too great of a time lapse. Wouldn't he do the same with Satan?

 

[Peairtach]

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

The above passage seems to indicate that the angels were aleady there when the Earth was created.

But I am toying with the idea that "The Fall" happened as one large event. The Fall of Satan, the angels, and Adam and Eve all happened in relatively close time proximity.

The fall of Satan and his angels would have had to have happened before the fall of Man; an unfallen Lucifer wouldn't have tempted Eve.

 

[earl40]

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

Good point it may indeed be saying the angels were created "before" time. Though I still believe angels were created in the time from the beginning for the reason that that God is the only one Who transcends time and space. Satan had to "take" Our Lord to the top of the mountain and I do not believe he can perform any miracle of transporting himself much less Jesus without transecting time and space. Also the possibility that God created the heavens first with the angels, and then the "the morning stars sang together" as He created the earth.

 

[Afterthought]

The Heavens and Earth may have been created before the natural world was formed and filled on the Six Days of Creation. The Days of Creation say nothing about the creation of God's Heaven, the angels, the Fall of the angels or the creation of Hell prepared for the Devil and his angels.

Wilhelmus a Brakel takes "the heaven" of "the heaven and the earth" created in v. 1 to refer to the third heaven.

 

[earl40]

Wilhelmus a Brakel takes "the heaven" of "the heaven and the earth" created in v. 1 to refer to the third heaven.

"1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

Interesting in how heaven is plural.

 

[Pergamum]

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

The above passage seems to indicate that the angels were aleady there when the Earth was created.

But I am toying with the idea that "The Fall" happened as one large event. The Fall of Satan, the angels, and Adam and Eve all happened in relatively close time proximity.

The fall of Satan and his angels would have had to have happened before the fall of Man; an unfallen Lucifer wouldn't have tempted Eve.

Satan might have fallen while tempting man. The Fall might have been one big event, Satan conceiving in his heart to rebel and using man as tools.

 

[Pergamum]

Wilhelmus a Brakel takes "the heaven" of "the heaven and the earth" created in v. 1 to refer to the third heaven.

"1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

Interesting in how heaven is plural.

That is interesting and would explain Job's reference to the angels being present at the Creation.

 

[earl40]

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (Job 38:4-7)

The above passage seems to indicate that the angels were aleady there when the Earth was created.

But I am toying with the idea that "The Fall" happened as one large event. The Fall of Satan, the angels, and Adam and Eve all happened in relatively close time proximity.

The fall of Satan and his angels would have had to have happened before the fall of Man; an unfallen Lucifer wouldn't have tempted Eve.

Satan might have fallen while tempting man. The Fall might have been one big event, Satan conceiving in his heart to rebel and using man as tools.

Satan was already "crafty" before he did his dirty work.

 

[Afterthought]

I don't know about the significance or propriety of "heaven" vs "heavens." The AV has it in the singular. a Brakel held that the other two heavens were created on the second day, since the birds and the stars were later placed in the firmament.