The solemn league and covenant

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Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
THE SOLEMN LEAGUE AND COVENANT FOR
REFORMATION AND DEFENCE OF RELIGION, THE HONOUR AND HAPPINESS OF THE KING, AND THE PEACE AND SAFETY OF THE THREE KINGDOMS OF SCOTLAND, ENGLAND, AND IRELAND.

Taken and Subscribed several times by King Charles II., and by all ranks in the said three kingdoms.
WITH
AN ACT OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY 1643 AND AN ACT OF PARLIAMENT 1644, RATIFYING AND APPROVING THE SAID LEAGUE AND COVENANT.
Jer. 50:5—Come, and let us join ourselves to the Lord in a perpetual Covenant that shall not be forgotten.
Prov. 25:5—Take away the wicked from before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness.
2 Chron. 15:15—And all Judah rejoiced at the oath; for they had sworn with all their heart.
Gal. 3:15—Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed by an oath, no man disannulleth or addeth thereto.

Assembly at EDINBURGH, August 17, 1643. Sess. 14.
The General Assembly’s Approbation of the SOLEMN LEAGUE AND COVENANT.

THE Assembly having recommended unto a Committee appointed by them to join with the Committee of the Honourable Convention of Estates, and the Commissioners of the Honourable Houses of the Parliament of England, for bringing the kingdoms to a more near conjunction and union, received from the foresaid Committees the Covenant after mentioned, as the result of their consultations: and having taken the same, as a matter of so publick concernment and so deep importance doth require, unto their gravest consideration, did, with all their hearts, and with the beginnings of the feelings of that joy, which they did find in go great measure upon the renovation of the National Covenant of this kirk and kingdom, All with one voice approve ad embrace the same, as the most powerful mean, by the blessing of GOD, for settling and preserving the true Protestant religion with perfect peace in his Majesty’s dominions, and propagating the same to other nations, and for establishing his majesty’s throne to all ages and generations. And therefore, with their best affections, recommend the same to the Honourable Convention of Estates, that, being examined and approved by them, it may be sent with all diligence to the kingdom of England, that, being received and approven there the same may be, with publick humiliation, and all religious and answerable solemnity, sworn and subscribed by all true professors of the reformed religion, an all his Majesty’s good subjects in both kingdoms.

A. JOHNSTOUN.

___________________________
CHARLES I. Parl. 3. Sess. 1. Act 5.
ACT anent the Ratification of the calling of the Convention, Ratification of the League and Covenant, Articles of Treaty betwixt the Kingdoms of Scotland and England, and remanent Acts of the Convention of Estates, and Committee thereof.
AT EDINBURGH, July 15, 1644.

THE Estates of Parliament, presently convened by virtue of the last act of the last Parliament, holden by his Majesty, and the three Estates, in anno 1641, considering, that the Lords of his Majesty’s Privy Council, and Commissioners for conserving the articles of the treaty, having, according to their interests and trust committed to them by his Majesty and Estates of Parliament, used all means, by supplications, remonstrances, and sending of Commissioners, for securing the peace of this kingdom, and removing the unhappy distractions betwixt his Majesty and his subjects in England, in such a way as might serve most for his Majesty’s honour, and good of both kingdoms; and their humble and dutiful endeavours for so good ends having proven ineffectual, and their offer of mediation and intercession being refused by his Majesty; and thereby finding the weight and difficulty of affairs, and the charge lying on them to be greater than they could bear; did therefore, in the month of May 1643, meet together with the Commissioners for the common burdens, that, by joint advice, some resolution might be taken therein; and in respect of the danger imminent to the true Protestant religion, his Majesty’s honour, and peace of thir kingdoms, by the multitude of Papists and their adherents in arms in England and Ireland, and of many other publick and important affairs, which could not admit delay, and did require the advice of the representative body of the kingdom; appointed and caused indict a meeting of the Convention of Estates (his Majesty having formerly refused their humble desires for a Parliament) to be on the 22d of June following; which diet being frequently kept by the Noblemen, commissioners of shires and burghs, and they finding these dangers against this kirk and state still increasing, resolved, after serious deliberation and advice of the General Assembly, and joint concurrence of the Commissioners authorized by the Parliament of England, that one of the chiefest remedies for preventing of these ad the like dangers, for preservation of religion, and both kingdoms, from ruin and destruction, and for procuring of peace, That both kingdoms should, for these ends, enter into Covenant; which was accordingly drawn up, and cheerfully embraced and allowed.—And at last a treaty was agreed unto by both kingdoms, concerning the said Covenant, and assistance craved from this kingdom b the kingdom of England, in pursuance of the ends expressed therein:--And the Estates being still desirous to use all good means, that, without the effusion of more blood, there may be such a blessed pacification betwixt his Majesty and his subjects, as may tend to the good of religion, his Majesty’s true honour and safety, and happiness of his people, did therefore give commission to John Earl of Loudoun, Lord Chancellor, Lord Maitland, Lord Waristoun, and Mr. Robert Barclay, to repair to England, and endeavour the effectuating of these ends contained in the covenant of treaties, conform to their instructions.—
And the said Estates having taken the proceedings above written to their consideration, do find and declare, That the Lords of council, and conservers of peace, did behave themselves as faithful counsellors, loyal subjects, and good patriots, in tendering their and in calling the Commissioners for the common burdens, and, by joint advice, appointing the late meeting of Convention, wherein they have approven themselves answerable to the duty of their places, and that trust committed to them; and therefore ratifies and approves their whole proceedings therein, and declares the said Convention was lawfully called, and also full and free in itself, consisting of all the members thereof, as any Convention hath been at any time bygone; and ratifies and approves the several acts made by them, or their committee, for enjoining the Covenant.—And also, the said estates of Parliament (but prejudice of the premises, and of the general ratification above mentioned) ratify, approve, and confirm the foresaid mutual League and Covenant, concerning the reformation and defence of religion, the honour and happiness of the King, and the peace a safety of the three kingdoms of Scotland, England, and Ireland; together with the acts of the Kirk an Estate authorizing the same League and Covenant; together also with the foresaid articles of treaty and the Commissioners of both the Houses of Parliament of England, concerning the said Solemn League and Covenant.—And the said Estates ordain the same acts, with the League and Covenant above specified, acts authorizing the same, and the articles of treaty foresaid, to have the full force and strength of perfect laws and acts of Parliament, and to be observed by all his Majesty’s lieges, conform to the tenors thereof respective. Of the which League and Covenant, the tenor follows:

THE SOLEMN LEAGUE AND COVENANT,
for reformation and defence of religion, the honour and happiness of the King, and the peace and safety of the three kingdoms of Scotland, England, and Ireland; agreed upon by Commissioners from the Parliament and Assembly of Divines in England, with Commissioners of the Convention of Estates and General Assembly of the Church of Scotland; approved by the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, and by both Houses of Parliament, and the Assembly of Divines in England, and taken and subscribed by them anno 1643; and thereafter, by the said authority, taken and subscribed by all ranks in Scotland and England the same year; and ratified by act of the Parliament of Scotland anno 1644. (And again renewed in Scotland, with an acknowledgement of sins and engagements to duties, by all ranks, anno 1648, and by Parliament, 1649; and taken and subscribed by King Charles II., at Spey, June 23, 1650; and at Scoon, January 1, 1651.)

"We, noblemen, barons, knights, gentlemen, citizens, burgesses, ministers of the Gospel, and commons of all sorts, in the kingdoms of Scotland, England, and Ireland, by the providence of GOD living under one king, and being of one reformed religion, having before our eyes the glory of God, and the advancement of the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, the honour and happiness of the king's majesty and his posterity, and the true public liberty, safety, and peace of the kingdom, wherein every one's private condition is included: and calling to mind the treacherous and bloody plots, conspiracies, attempts, and practices of the enemies of GOD, against the true religion and professors thereof in all places, especially in these three kingdoms, ever since the reformation of religion; and how much their rage, power, and presumption, are of late, and at this time, increased and exercised, whereof the deplorable state of the Church and kingdom of Ireland, the distressed state of the Church and kingdom of England, and the dangerous state of the Church and kingdom of Scotland, are present and public testimonies: we have now at last (after other means of supplication, remonstrance, protestation, and sufferings), for the preservation of ourselves and our religion from utter ruin and destruction, according to the commendable practice of these kingdoms in former times, and the example of GOD'S people in other nations, after mature deliberation, resolved and determined to enter into a Mutual and Solemn League and Covenant, wherein we all subscribe, and each one of us for himself, with our hands lifted up to the Most High GOD, do swear,

"I. That we shall sincerely, really, and constantly, through the grace of GOD, endeavor, in our several places and callings, the preservation of the reformed religion in the Church of Scotland, in doctrine, worship, discipline, and government, against our common enemies; the reformation of religion in the kingdoms of England and Ireland, in doctrine, worship, discipline, and government, according to the Word of GOD, and the example of the best reformed Churches; and shall endeavour to bring the Churches of GOD in the three kingdoms to the nearest conjunction and uniformity in religion, Confession of Faith, Form of Church Government, Directory for Worship and Catechising; that we, and our posterity after us, may, as brethren, live in faith and love, and the Lord may delight to dwell in the midst of us.

"II. That we shall, in like manner, without respect of persons, endeavour the extirpation of Popery, Prelacy (that is, Church government by archbishops, bishops, their chancellors and commissioners, deans, deans and chapters, archdeacons, and all other ecclesiastical officers depending on that hierarchy), superstition, heresy, schism, profaneness, and whatsoever shall be found contrary to sound doctrine and the power of Godliness; lest we partake in other men's sins, and thereby be in danger to receive of their plagues; and that the Lord may be one, and his name one, in the three kingdoms.

"III. We shall, with the same sincerity, reality, and constancy, in our several vocations, endeavour, with our estates and lives, mutually to preserve the rights and privileges of the Parliaments, and the liberties of the kingdoms; and to preserve and defend the king's majesty's person and authority, in the preservation and defence of the true religion and liberties of the kingdoms; that the world may bear witness with our consciences of our loyalty, and that we have no other thoughts or intentions to diminish his majesty's just power and greatness.

"IV. We shall also, with all faithfulness, endeavour the discovery of all such as have been or shall be incendiaries, malignants, or evil instruments, be hindering the reformation of religion, dividing the king from his people, or one of the kingdoms from another, or making any faction or parties among the people, contrary to this League and Covenant; that they may be brought to public trial, and receive condign punishment, as the degree of their offences shall require or deserve, or the supreme judicatories of both kingdoms respectively, or others having power from them for that effect, shall judge convenient.

"V. And whereas the happiness of a blessed peace between these kingdoms, denied in former times to our progenitors, is, by the good providence of GOD, granted unto us, and hath been lately concluded and settled by both Parliaments; we shall, each one of us, according to our place and interest, endeavour that they may remain conjoined in a firm peace and union to all posterity; and that justice may be done upon the willful opposers thereof, in manner expressed in the precedent article.

"VI. We shall also, according to our places and callings, in this common cause of religion, liberty, and peace of the kingdoms, assist and defend all those that enter into this League and Covenant, in the maintaining and pursuing thereof; and shall not suffer ourselves, directly or indirectly, by whatsoever combination, persuasion, or terror, to be divided or withdrawn from this blessed union and conjunction, whether to make defection to the contrary part, or to give ourselves to a detestable indifferency or neutrality in this cause, which so much concerneth the glory of God, the good of the kingdom, and honour of the king; but shall, all the days of our lives, zealously and constantly continue therein against all opposition, and promote the same, according to our power, against all lets and impediments whatsoever; and what we are not able ourselves to suppress or overcome, we shall reveal and make known, that it may be timely prevented or removed: All which we shall do as in the sight of God.

"And, because these kingdoms are guilty of many sins and provocations against GOD, and his Son Jesus Christ, as is too manifest by our present distresses and dangers, the fruits thereof; we profess and declare, before GOD and the world, our unfeigned desire to be humbled for our own sins, and for the sins of these kingdoms; especially that we have not, as we ought, valued the inestimable benefit of the Gospel; that we have not laboured for the purity and power thereof; and the we have not endeavoured to receive Christ in our hearts, not to walk worthy of him in our lives; which are the causes of other sins and transgression so much abounding amongst us: and our true and unfeigned purpose, desire, and endeavour, for ourselves, and all others under our power and charge, both in public and private, in all duties we owe to GOD and man, to amend our lives, and each one to go before another in the example of a real reformation; that the Lord may turn away his wrath and heavy indignation, and establish these Churches and kingdoms in truth and peace. And this Covenant we make in the presence of ALMIGHTY GOD, the Searcher of all hearts, with a true intention to perform the same, as we shall answer at that great day, when the secrets of all hearts shall be disclosed; most humbly beseeching the LORD to strengthen us by his HOLY SPIRIT for this end, and to bless our desires and proceedings with such success, as may be deliverance and safety to his people, and encouragement to other Christian Churches, groaning under, or in danger of the yoke of antichristian tyranny, to join in the same or like association and covenant, to the glory of GOD, the enlargement of the kingdom of Jesus Christ, and the peace and tranquillity of Christian kingdoms and commonwealths."
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
So what exactly is this, on what authority did they have to draft it and speak for others and what binding effect does it have on anyone? Could a group of PBers do the same for America? And if so great, why do not more Presbyterians adopt this officially as a part of their church documents. I think Reg the Stillwaters Revival guy belongs to a church that does...why hasn't it caught on?
 

Stephen

Puritan Board Junior
So what exactly is this, on what authority did they have to draft it and speak for others and what binding effect does it have on anyone? Could a group of PBers do the same for America? And if so great, why do not more Presbyterians adopt this officially as a part of their church documents. I think Reg the Stillwaters Revival guy belongs to a church that does...why hasn't it caught on?


Actually this has nothing to do with Still Waters. This was the document that the Westminster Divines wrote, which called the nation of Scotland to enter into covenant with the LORD. They believed that the nation was under the authority of Jesus Christ. The American Presbyterians rejected it when they revised the Westminster Standards.
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
So what exactly is this, on what authority did they have to draft it and speak for others and what binding effect does it have on anyone? Could a group of PBers do the same for America? And if so great, why do not more Presbyterians adopt this officially as a part of their church documents. I think Reg the Stillwaters Revival guy belongs to a church that does...why hasn't it caught on?


Actually this has nothing to do with Still Waters. This was the document that the Westminster Divines wrote, which called the nation of Scotland to enter into covenant with the LORD. They believed that the nation was under the authority of Jesus Christ. The American Presbyterians rejected it when they revised the Westminster Standards.

Which I personally think was a terrible mistake.
 

NaphtaliPress

Administrator
Staff member
Just some corrections; the SL&C was not a production of the Westminster Assembly though the members did sign it. From that point the SL&C essentially set their agenda to produce the Westminster Standards. Hetherington gives some background:
This spiritual independence enjoyed by the Church of Scotland was by no means agreeable to James VI., who set himself to subvert it by every means which fraud (by him called “king-craft”) could devise, or force accomplish. He did not wholly succeed, though, by banishing the faithful and the fearless, and overawing the timid, he did manage to mould it somewhat into conformity with his arbitrary will, and imposed upon it a set of sycophantic and tyrannical prelates. His sterner but not less deceitful son, Charles I., urged on by the narrow-minded and cruel Laud, seeking to complete what his father had begun, drove Scotland to the necessity of rising in defence of her liberties, civil and sacred. This gave rise to the great National Covenant of 1638, by which the people of almost the entire kingdom were knit to God and to each other, in a solemn bond for the maintenance and defence of sacred truth and freedom. The contest proceeding, a General Assembly was held at Glasgow towards the close of the same year, in which the system of Prelacy was abolished, and the Presbyterian Church of Scotland restored. In vain did the king attempt to overthrow this second Reformation, even by the extreme measure of an attempted invasion. The tide of war rolled back from the Scottish borders, and the Church and kingdom continued covenanted and free.

But a storm had been long gathering in England, and was ready to burst forth with uncontrollable might. Although the progress of the Reformation in England had been paralized in all its elements, and stopped short long ere it had reached anything like completeness, still there were many who ardently desired to promote the greater purity of the English Church, by additional reforms in doctrine, worship, and discipline. This could not be obtained; but the persevering efforts of these true Reformers gave rise to the Puritan party, as they were designated, and prepared for a more intense and formidable struggle. On the other hand, while the Puritans were striving for further reform, what may be termed the Court party were receding further and further from the principles of the Reformation, and gradually approximating to those of Rome. The evil genius of the unhappy Laud brought matters to a crisis. His influence urged on the unfortunate king to the adoption of measures formidable alike to both civil and religious liberty. The free spirit of England was at length aroused; and the contest between the despotic monarch and his freehearted subjects began to assume the aspect of a civil war. The Parliament declared its own sittings permanent; and regarding the despotic principles and conduct of the bishops as the direct cause of the oppression under which they had so long groaned, passed a bill for the abolition of Prelacy. The king unsheathed the sword of civil war; and the English Parliament sought the assistance of Scotland, as necessary to preserve the liberties of both kingdoms. The leading Scottish statesmen were well aware, that if the king should succeed in his attempt to overpower the English Parliament, he would immediately assail Scotland with increased power and determination. But at the same time, as their whole contest had been on sacred ground, they could not enter into an offensive and defensive alliance with the English Parliament for any less hallowed cause, or with any less important object in view. Had the king not gone beyond his own province, and invaded that of religion, they would have left his jurisdiction and authority unquestioned and untouched. For such reasons they would not frame with England a civil league, except it were based upon, and pervaded by, a religious covenant. To these views England consented; and the consequence was, the formation of the solemn league and covenant—a document which we cannot help regarding as the noblest and best, in its essential nature and principles, of all that are recorded among the international transactions of the world.

A considerable time before this important event took place, the idea had been entertained in England that it would be extremely desirable to call a “general synod of the most grave, pious, learned, and judicious divines,” for the purpose of deliberating respecting all things necessary for the peace and good government of the Church. This desire had been intimated as early as 1641; while it was not till June 12, 1643, that Parliament issued the Ordinance calling the Assembly. Although, therefore, the Solemn League and Covenant exercised no little influence in the deliberations of that Assembly, it was not the cause of that Assembly being held. At the time when the Assembly was called together, there was no organized Church in England. Prelacy had been abolished, and no other form of Church government was in existence. It did not meet as a Church court, in any accurate sense of that expression, but was in reality merely an assembly of divines, called together in a case of extreme emergency, to consult, deliberate, and advise, but not to exercise directly any judicial or ecclesiastical functions. This it is necessary to bear in mind, not for the purpose of casting any slight upon its character and proceedings, but for the purpose of showing how utterly groundless are the assertions of those who charge it with being constituted on an Erastian principle. It could not have met except under the protection of Parliament. It was not an ecclesiastical court at all; for it had no conformity with either the Episcopalian, Presbyterian, or Congregational systems of Church government; it neither ruled the Parliament, nor was ruled by the Parliament; it deliberated, reasoned, voted, formed its own free judgment concerning the important matters before it, and gave the result as its advice to Parliament, to be followed or rejected by that body on its own responsibility. When the members of Parliament, who formed a constituent element of it as lay assessors, strove to introduce Erastian principles into its decisions, it met these attempts with strong, persevering, and invincible opposition—willing rather that its whole protracted labours should be rejected, than that, by any weak and sinful compromise, it should consent to the admission of an evil principle.
The above comes from the introduction to Shaw's Exposition of the Confession of Faith.
So what exactly is this, on what authority did they have to draft it and speak for others and what binding effect does it have on anyone? Could a group of PBers do the same for America? And if so great, why do not more Presbyterians adopt this officially as a part of their church documents. I think Reg the Stillwaters Revival guy belongs to a church that does...why hasn't it caught on?


Actually this has nothing to do with Still Waters. This was the document that the Westminster Divines wrote, which called the nation of Scotland to enter into covenant with the LORD. They believed that the nation was under the authority of Jesus Christ. The American Presbyterians rejected it when they revised the Westminster Standards.
 

Stephen

Puritan Board Junior
So what exactly is this, on what authority did they have to draft it and speak for others and what binding effect does it have on anyone? Could a group of PBers do the same for America? And if so great, why do not more Presbyterians adopt this officially as a part of their church documents. I think Reg the Stillwaters Revival guy belongs to a church that does...why hasn't it caught on?


Actually this has nothing to do with Still Waters. This was the document that the Westminster Divines wrote, which called the nation of Scotland to enter into covenant with the LORD. They believed that the nation was under the authority of Jesus Christ. The American Presbyterians rejected it when they revised the Westminster Standards.

Which I personally think was a terrible mistake.

:ditto:
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Actually this has nothing to do with Still Waters. This was the document that the Westminster Divines wrote, which called the nation of Scotland to enter into covenant with the LORD. They believed that the nation was under the authority of Jesus Christ. The American Presbyterians rejected it when they revised the Westminster Standards.

Which I personally think was a terrible mistake.

:ditto:

A Total shot in the dark but do you think there would be any chance we could convince the American churches of this?
 

NaphtaliPress

Administrator
Staff member

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
How many churches would have to sign it for it to be binding? How many churches until God would "hear it?" Would we need legal permission from the US since we seem to be speaking on behalf of the nation? Can clergy man enter into covenant on behalf of a nation? If a group of satainists entered into covenant with the devil on behalf of America, is that too a binding contract?

Did the parlament pass this in England?

This topic brings up many questions for me?
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
How many churches would have to sign it for it to be binding? How many churches until God would "hear it?" Would we need legal permission from the US since we seem to be speaking on behalf of the nation? Can clergy man enter into covenant on behalf of a nation? If a group of satainists entered into covenant with the devil on behalf of America, is that too a binding contract?

Did the parliament pass this in England?

This topic brings up many questions for me?

1) I do not understand your first four questions and may misunderstand the SL&C, Please restate.

2) The last question is not applicable to this debate/covenant.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
If the covenant supposed to speak on behalf of a nation then it would need national approval right? Thus, it would need approved by king, parlament or democracy, right?

And, what if a group of baptists did the same?


The gist is, this is a religious and a political document. What makes it binding and why isn't this just a piece of paper?




If me and 4 other people declared a fast on behalf of the sins of the USA and made a solemn promise to God on behalf of the US, what actually does that do?
 

Christusregnat

Puritan Board Professor
Backwoods Presbyterian,

There would be several things that would need to take place:

1. A catharsis of American culture from the adoption of Anabaptist and Dispensational theology

2. A wide-spread reformation in our views of the nature of civil society, the nature of the church, and the duties of Christian men in both

3. A recovery of the Puritan doctrine of covenants: civil, personal and ecclesiastical

4. We'd have to have a bunch of staunchly reformed men who would be willing to speak to civil issues on a local, state-wide and national level.


The church is so seeped in antinomian and Anabaptist views of society that we would make no headway if we tried this.

Change the church, change the world. Reform our lives as godly men, then we'd get somewhere. As it stands, we are milquetoast pluralists, who want the "will of the people" to be heard. We're more Rousseau than Rutherford.

Thank about it: the PCA is fighting with feminism; are we really ready to take on the civil magistrate when we can't keep our ministers from accepting societal norms? I think not.

Cheers,

Adam


Which I personally think was a terrible mistake.

:ditto:

A Total shot in the dark but do you think there would be any chance we could convince the American churches of this?
 

Backwoods Presbyterian

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Backwoods Presbyterian,

There would be several things that would need to take place:

1. A catharsis of American culture from the adoption of Anabaptist and Dispensational theology

2. A wide-spread reformation in our views of the nature of civil society, the nature of the church, and the duties of Christian men in both

3. A recovery of the Puritan doctrine of covenants: civil, personal and ecclesiastical

4. We'd have to have a bunch of staunchly reformed men who would be willing to speak to civil issues on a local, state-wide and national level.


The church is so seeped in antinomian and Anabaptist views of society that we would make no headway if we tried this.

Change the church, change the world. Reform our lives as godly men, then we'd get somewhere. As it stands, we are milquetoast pluralists, who want the "will of the people" to be heard. We're more Rousseau than Rutherford.

Thank about it: the PCA is fighting with feminism; are we really ready to take on the civil magistrate when we can't keep our ministers from accepting societal norms? I think not.

Cheers,

Adam



A Total shot in the dark but do you think there would be any chance we could convince the American churches of this?

Sounds like a plan to me.

Anyone want to join in? I'm all for doing and working towards 1-4.

Crown Rights for King Jesus anyone?
 

Christusregnat

Puritan Board Professor
I am interested, and perhaps this would be a good forum to mention this.

Our session has been thinking of reasons why the church no longer has a voice in society. For instance, why don't the newspapers ever publish "election day" sermons? Why doesn't the media care what the PCA or OPC says about any political issues? Why? Because we don't care!

If we want to change this, we need to reform our churches, and our session was trying to think of effective ways to do this.

It might be a good idea to have a website or a forum for assisting, encouraging, praying and sharing ideas.

How about the "Solemn League and Covenant Board" or the "Lex Rex Board" :)

Anybody tech savvy, and interested?

Adam




Backwoods Presbyterian,

There would be several things that would need to take place:

1. A catharsis of American culture from the adoption of Anabaptist and Dispensational theology

2. A wide-spread reformation in our views of the nature of civil society, the nature of the church, and the duties of Christian men in both

3. A recovery of the Puritan doctrine of covenants: civil, personal and ecclesiastical

4. We'd have to have a bunch of staunchly reformed men who would be willing to speak to civil issues on a local, state-wide and national level.


The church is so seeped in antinomian and Anabaptist views of society that we would make no headway if we tried this.

Change the church, change the world. Reform our lives as godly men, then we'd get somewhere. As it stands, we are milquetoast pluralists, who want the "will of the people" to be heard. We're more Rousseau than Rutherford.

Thank about it: the PCA is fighting with feminism; are we really ready to take on the civil magistrate when we can't keep our ministers from accepting societal norms? I think not.

Cheers,

Adam


A Total shot in the dark but do you think there would be any chance we could convince the American churches of this?

Sounds like a plan to me.

Anyone want to join in? I'm all for doing and working towards 1-4.

Crown Rights for King Jesus anyone?
 

toddpedlar

Iron Dramatist
I am interested, and perhaps this would be a good forum to mention this.

Our session has been thinking of reasons why the church no longer has a voice in society. For instance, why don't the newspapers ever publish "election day" sermons?

Perhaps another question: who ever PREACHES "election day" sermons? (I mean REAL ones - not simply generic sermons that have appended to them, "Do your duty as a good citizen and vote on Tuesday")
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Every true Christian believes that Jesus is our Lord. But some of us get itchy about dream scenarios with Presbyterians in overwhelming political power.


My job is to evangelize. Am I doing it all wrong, should I be focusing on politics instead?
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
So, if not theocracy what is it?

I am FAR from the political left and yet I do not want to go back to the days of Zwingli drowning baptists or the days of Roger Williams when a man could suffer a civil punishment for an ecclesiastical offense.




Serious questions here:

What exactly would it look like if churches adopted this document?

And why would it apply anyhow since it seems only to concerns Scotland, Ireland and England I think.

What is the use of this document today exactly besides a quaint historical relic?

If we had to "convince the American churches" of the need to sign this, what would that do? And what is your definition of "the American Churches?" A small segment of micro-presbyterians or the "American Church" as a whole to include baptists, bible churches, and even some pentecostals? How broad of a cross-section of a country needs to approve such a document such as this before it goes into effect ot before God honors it?
 

ADKing

Puritan Board Junior
Thanks for posting this and reminding us Presbyterians of our roots. The Solemn League and Covenant was so crucial in the formation of the tradition and documents that many of us hold dear. It is a sad thing that its abuse by some goups have given it a bad reputation among many today. What a wonderful thing it would be indeed if Presbyterians would go back to their covenanting roots in a desire for a biblical uniformity of doctrine, worship, dicipline and government as found expressed in principle in the SL&C.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Can you explain what you mean by "covenanting roots"? I am not necessarily trying to bait you here, I am genuinely curious.
 

toddpedlar

Iron Dramatist
Can you explain what you mean by "covenanting roots"? I am not necessarily trying to bait you here, I am genuinely curious.

I suspect he's referring to the roots Presbyterians have among the Covenanters in Scotland - in the "Killing Times", etc. , when to argue that the king is NOT the head of the church and must submit himself to God's Law and that Christ alone is the ultimate authority was effectively a capital offense. This time period is extremely fascinating, and is worthy of study. You can check out the well-known history of the Scots Worthies by John Howie (available umpteen places on the web) and others like "Fair Sunshine" by Jock Purves, etc. I'm sure our friend the Virginia Huguenot can point out many other sources :)
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Can you explain what you mean by "covenanting roots"? I am not necessarily trying to bait you here, I am genuinely curious.

I suspect he's referring to the roots Presbyterians have among the Covenanters in Scotland - in the "Killing Times", etc. , when to argue that the king is NOT the head of the church and must submit himself to God's Law and that Christ alone is the ultimate authority was effectively a capital offense. This time period is extremely fascinating, and is worthy of study. You can check out the well-known history of the Scots Worthies by John Howie (available umpteen places on the web) and others like "Fair Sunshine" by Jock Purves, etc. I'm sure our friend the Virginia Huguenot can point out many other sources :)

:up: Indeed, Adam and Todd are quite right! I would point out these and other resources for historical reading on the subject for any who are interested (some of which can be found in the links manager); however, I'm about to take a long trip. So, best wishes to all,

FCC&C,
Andrew
 
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