The Sabbath. Did I just break it?

[etexas]

OK, we have a housekeeper who comes once or twice a week, otherwise Megan and I share a lot of chores, today I did some plates and cutlery (it drives me nuts if stuff builds up in the sink! Yuck!) I was looking at something this made mention of Sabbath breaking, and that is probably stupid, but is that a breach?

 

[ReformedWretch]

depends who you ask

 

[etexas]

depends who you ask

True! Thought I would throw it out though, feeling risky!

 

[JBaldwin]

I think of what Jesus said about getting the oxen out of the ditch. If your animal is stuck in the ditch or it is an urgent matter, you should not feel guilty for doing something about it.

 

[VictorBravo]

OK, we have a housekeeper who comes once or twice a week, otherwise Megan and I share a lot of chores, today I did some plates and cutlery (it drives me nuts if stuff builds up in the sink! Yuck!) I was looking at something this made mention of Sabbath breaking, and that is probably stupid, but is that a breach?

No, not at all. Dishes in the sink are just like donkeys in the ditch...they need to be rescued and put back home.

 

[Amazing Grace]

OK, we have a housekeeper who comes once or twice a week, otherwise Megan and I share a lot of chores, today I did some plates and cutlery (it drives me nuts if stuff builds up in the sink! Yuck!) I was looking at something this made mention of Sabbath breaking, and that is probably stupid, but is that a breach?

No it is not a breach, becasue you do not do the dishes the 6 other days of the week. Plus dirty dishes will create a petri dish of bacteria.

 

[etexas]

A better question to ask is, "Are these things I'm doing something I could have done yesterday, or that can wait until tomorrow, so that I can have today as one set apart from all the things I do on other days?"

No, I could not have done them yesterday, we had a dinner party and things were piled up, No, I could not have waited until Monday, because Vivian will be here and the "pile up" would have interfered with her work.

 

[VictorBravo]

I think of what Jesus said about getting the oxen out of the ditch. If your animal is stuck in the ditch or it is an urgent matter, you should not feel guilty for doing something about it.

Oops, I posted right after you on the same thing. I guess we think alike on this!

 

[etexas]

I think of what Jesus said about getting the oxen out of the ditch. If your animal is stuck in the ditch or it is an urgent matter, you should not feel guilty for doing something about it.

Oops, I posted right after you on the same thing. I guess we think alike on this!

Great Minds!

 

[VictorBravo]

Really, washing dishes is a part of eating. I think worrying about washing dishes is about the same as worrying about the labor of lifting a fork to eat.

In other words, it is not worth worrying about.

 

[Anton Bruckner]

stop obsessing over sabbath breaking. just enjoy the day and meditate on God's goodness. I just had some grape soda, fried rice and some fried fish.

 

[JBaldwin]

I think of what Jesus said about getting the oxen out of the ditch. If your animal is stuck in the ditch or it is an urgent matter, you should not feel guilty for doing something about it.

Oops, I posted right after you on the same thing. I guess we think alike on this!

Yes we must

 

[etexas]

stop obsessing over sabbath breaking. just enjoy the day and meditate on God's goodness. I just had some grape soda, fried rice and some fried fish.

BUT that REALLY sounds good! Back to our program!

 

[Arch2k]

I agree that we must be careful here. If washing a couple of dishes is wrong then what about clearing the table? My wife and I will usually just load the dishes in the dishwasher though.

That being said, one must be careful not to make the Lord's day a day for cleaning either. While cleaning up the dishes may fall under a sort of daily necessity, scrubbing the toilet probably doesn't.

The principle remains the same...is it a work of necessity or mercy? These words need some interpretation.

 

[etexas]

I agree that we must be careful here. If washing a couple of dishes is wrong then what about clearing the table? My wife and I will usually just load the dishes in the dishwasher though.

That being said, one must be careful not to make the Lord's day a day for cleaning either. While cleaning up the dishes may fall under a sort of daily necessity, scrubbing the toilet probably doesn't.

The principle remains the same...is it a work of necessity or mercy? These words need some interpretation.

Jeff thanks, you bring to mind an interesting point. As I stated, the housekeeper will be here Monday, if I do NOT do the dishes it will cut into her work! She has a husband who was just wounded and is need both of time and money. So. With that in mind, might it be a "lesser" "evil" to start a load, than pile work on one who is sore pressed as is? Is it not better for me to chance it and be Merciful?

 

[Arch2k]

Josh,

I agree. Preparing for the Sabbath is often forgotten in today's day. Saturday is our house cleaning/grocery shopping/etc. day just for this reason. I'm the kind of guy who likes the house on order as well, and even if I didn't actually clean on the Sabbath, I would be tempted to if I did not do it beforehand.

 

[Arch2k]

etexas,

Not to sound rude, but I have a hard time thinking that washing your own dirty dishes is "merciful" in the biblical sense.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Max -- I think washing your dishes following a meal on the Lord's Day, if it cannot be left until Monday morning, as a matter of sanitation and health, is a reasonable work of necessity. That being said, each of us should endeavor to make what preparations we can beforehand to minimize "servile works" required on the Lord's Day (for example, think of using disposable paper plates, if possible). Moreover, when going about the business of cleaning up after a meal, you can always concurrently meditate upon the sermon or what you read in family or private worship, or other divine matters, or sing a psalm, or listen to a psalm sung or a scripture read on audio tape or some other means (I haven't entered the ipod age so I think in terms of a stereo or...a walkman). As William Gouge says in The Sabbath's Sanctification, p. 14:

On the Lord's day our mind ought to be so heavenly, as thereby everything should be done after an heavenly manner; not only the works of piety, but also every other work that we do thereon should be so done. When we first wake we should call to mind what day it is and desire God to sanctify us to the duties thereof. Rising out of bed should bring to our mind the first resurrection out of sin and the second out of the grave. In apparelling ourselves we should meditate on the adorning of our souls. In washing face and hands, think on the cleaning of our souls. Servants, in making and blowing the fire, should thence take occasion of stirring up the fire of God's Spirit in them. In preparing meat they should think of the food of their souls. There is nothing which may lawfully be done, from which a pious mind may not draw matter of heavenly meditation; whereby, the things from which meditation is drawn, are sanctified.

 

[etexas]

etexas,

Not to sound rude, but I have a hard time thinking that washing your own dirty dishes is "merciful" in the biblical sense.

Not to sound rude either, but at the moment she is the sole bread winner and will not take "charity" she cooks and preps meals on Monday. A dirty kitchen would add to her burden. If aiding her by pushing the Start button on the washer is breaking the sabbath I shall risk it. I do feel that is merciful, in a Biblical sense. Stone me.

 

[etexas]

etexas,

Not to sound rude, but I have a hard time thinking that washing your own dirty dishes is "merciful" in the biblical sense.

Not to sound rude either, but at the moment she is the soul bread winner and will not take "charity" she cooks and preps meals on Monday. A dirty kitchen would add to her burden. If aiding her by pushing the Start button on the washer is breaking the sabbath I shall risk it. I do feel that is merciful, in a Biblical sense. Stone me.

Whoah nelly! Max, nobody said anything about stoning, Friend, and I don't think that rhetoric is too helpful.

Sorry Josh. Hopefully Jeff and I have hashed out our positions via PM.

 

[etexas]

People: I AM SORRY I GOT A LITTLE ANGRY AT JEFF. NOT HIS FAULT AT ALL! I AM IN DAY 3 OF SMOKING CESSATION! SORRY TO JEFF AND ALL! Really in this thread I was simply trying to figure out what it means to break the Sabbath. How far must one go to be in "breach" of the command? Before I am asked, NO, I am NOT asking to see how far I can "push it"! This is simple curiosity from a simple arm-chair Theologian!

 

[dswatts]

okay, really?!?!

In my humble opinion, the Lord perhaps would have overlooked the washing of plates and cutlery, but the typing of this ridiculous post was pushing Sabbath breaking to a whole new level!

Seriously brethren, is THIS the freedom that Christ purchased with His precious blood? Sounds sooo much more like bondage to me.

Just my

Quietly waiting to be flamed!

Dwayne

 

[bookslover]

No, not at all. Dishes in the sink are just like donkeys in the ditch...they need to be rescued and put back home.

Ah, but what if, upon entering your kitchen, you find a donkey in your sink? Now what?

 

[VictorBravo]

No, not at all. Dishes in the sink are just like donkeys in the ditch...they need to be rescued and put back home.

Ah, but what if, upon entering your kitchen, you find a donkey in your sink? Now what?

Now, I want to be clear, I don't think one should make a habit out of such things. If you found yourself rescuing the donkey every Lord's day, especially from the sink, I think there probably should be a readjustment in how you manage your week.

 

[DMcFadden]

No, not at all. Dishes in the sink are just like donkeys in the ditch...they need to be rescued and put back home.

Ah, but what if, upon entering your kitchen, you find a donkey in your sink? Now what?

Now, I want to be clear, I don't think one should make a habit out of such things. If you found yourself rescuing the donkey every Lord's day, especially from the sink, I think there probably should be a readjustment in how you manage your week.

Some of my employees think I'm a "donkey" (close enough for the PB language standards). Does that mean that anything my wife does for me on Sunday is permitted?

More seriously, coming from a background of typical evangelical disinterest in the subject, these kinds of threads have been quite helpful in clarifying my own thinking. Thanks! I love the PB!

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Max,

I think some of the "practical" answers you have received are very good but I also think you need to be "aiming" yourself at the law a bit differently. Rather than asking for the definitive lists of "Do's" and "Dont's", the orientation ought to be on delighting in the things that God delights in.

Paul's explanation of the end of the Law is very interesting as being a time of immaturity. He even likens it to an elementary education, a time of immaturity, and as something as pointing us to a time of maturity.

This is very intuitive naturally for us, is it not? Our small children have to be told the proper way to cross the street and have to ask permission to go outside and play. They are bound up under rules and regulations and receive sanctions for disobedience. The goal, however, is to point them to a time of self-government where they are governed by a love for the good and the pure and they no longer need the threat of a "spanking" to keep them from selfishly taking from others.

This is why the Law can be summed up in two positive commands (love God and love neighbor) because the orientation toward maturity would point us to the fact that the specific laws and all their sanctions were designed to bring us to Christ Who would provide the power toward that orientation by the Holy Spirit. Men, however, always come to commands like the Sabbath or other types of commands and ask what activities would break it. There is a sense in which this is good on an initial level but is not the aim of the thing. We must begin understanding that all our lawkeeping falls short, Christ is our righteousness, and then the Law comes back to us as a reflection of God's character and we try to delight in the things He delights in - not carelessly obviously but still with that primary aim.

This is why I have such a hard time with a discussion that gets so close to ground level as the issue of washing a few dishes. A prudent answer could not give a hard and fast rule. On the one hand, you could abstain from all chance of ever having to wash your dishes and still be violating the Sabbath. There are Jews who will literally abandon cars on the side of the roads on a Friday evening if they're stuck in traffic in New York City just so they don't operate machinery on the Sabbath. On the other hand, you could be so indifferent to the Sabbath that one wonders if you care that the Lord delights in the Sabbath at all. Thirdly, you may well be delighting in the Lord on His Day and do so without offense to your Father.

It's interesting that I've been clarifying and expounding the Gospel for several months now to our Church but the thing that really "stuck" with the Japanese one Sunday was right before we were about to give the offering. I reproved the common thing that they've grown up with where someone reads the Malachi passage as some sort of Law or the typical stewardship series that talks about all the ways in which God commands us to give to Him. I told them that *everything* we do is in light of the Gospel and that includes our giving. I told them, point blank, that if they were giving to the Lord out of a sense of mere duty and feeling condemned if they didn't, then to keep their money. Let me explain to them the Gospel anew, to hear what Christ has done on a Cross to purchase an inheritance that we did not earn. If you believe this then what joy inexpressible overflows with marvel that we should be called sons of God! If so, then what a delight that I should be asked to give to God out of my pocket. A tithe is so rigid, so minimalistic. I give at least a tithe and liberally and happily to my God for the benefit of His Church.

And so it is with the Sabbath. The Lord commands the impossible for the legalist: to make the Sabbath a delight. The Sabbath can only be a delight for those who have put on Christ. The old man in us may still need to be put to death in this regard and we will still need to grow in our understanding by practical means on how to make it a delight but the end of the thing is not rote and rule bound. It is love.

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

OK, we have a housekeeper who comes once or twice a week, otherwise Megan and I share a lot of chores, today I did some plates and cutlery (it drives me nuts if stuff builds up in the sink! Yuck!) I was looking at something this made mention of Sabbath breaking, and that is probably stupid, but is that a breach?

No, its a work of necessity. For hygiene reasons you need to wash the dishes, just as you need to wash your body.

 

[etexas]

OK, we have a housekeeper who comes once or twice a week, otherwise Megan and I share a lot of chores, today I did some plates and cutlery (it drives me nuts if stuff builds up in the sink! Yuck!) I was looking at something this made mention of Sabbath breaking, and that is probably stupid, but is that a breach?

No, its a work of necessity. For hygiene reasons you need to wash the dishes, just as you need to wash your body.

Yes I sort of agree! Any filth in the house can in (m Monkish mind) become a roach ranch!