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If a lay-person is concerned about a ministry candidate should he/she go to the candidate or to the elders?
Scott,
I realize as a woman, it's really not my place to address the issue within the church, but my husbands. However, I am e-mailing one of my pastors who was at the GA about it..
This is my opinion of the matter...but I believe others see it the same way..
It appears to me, it will do more harm to the PCA overall if they allow for the individual presbyteries to decide for themselves, and not work together as one body to address the issue with these men.
This is the best word picture I can come up with to describe what I see happening..and why it is so important that it be addressed by ALL the presbyteries together and not left to the individual presbyteries to decide.
It's like a body infected with gangrene that needs to have a foot amputated before it spreads anymore. Do we let it continue to infect the Denomination (body) as whole or do we continue to wait until the leg or both legs need to be amputated off as well?
It appears to me, it will do more harm to the PCA overall if they allow for the individual presbyteries to decide for themselves, and not work together as one body to address the issue with these men...
There are overt proponents in the PCA and elsewhere who need to be disciplined and that will only happen when ministers and elders (sessions) lay charges against them.
How influential is this issue?
Does it have a major following?
How interdenominational is it? i.e. does it easily transfer from Presbyterian/Reformed Churches into Anglican and Baptist churches? How worried should I be?*
*I drew FV to the attention of my former minister and Church Society is now selling Prof. Water's The Federal Vision and Covenant Theology - A Comparative Analysis see here.
I have e-mailed one of my pastors concerning this...as you can see God is speaking directly to me concerning areas of my own life as well as my heart is burdened about this issue..
What will OUR presbytery do? Will they wait until others speak up or will we take a leading role?
If they are not looking to take a leading role, can I ask why? Is it because these men are not in our specific presbytery and thus does not effect us directly? Or another reason?
I know, I'm asking a lot of questions, and some you may not be able to give answers for, and I realize our own body has it's own issues it is dealing with right now. But I believe they go hand in hand, that if we are going to stand for the purity of the Gospel in one area, then we ought also to stand for the purity of the Gospel in other areas as well.
Whether it is our presbyteries place to take that lead, I am not sure..but it is certainly something I am praying about. Maybe I am being foolish in my prayers, and maybe even moreso in my expectations and desire to see a John Calvin or Martin Luther rise from up our midst and take such a stand.
As I write this, I see more clearly why God has placed this burden upon my heart, and something I am also praying about, as He shows me the inconsistencies in my own walk and relationship with Him and others, areas I desire to put Him first but do not. Which is in essence the same thing that is going on with this issue, keeping with the purity of the Gospel in all aspects of my life, but also in looking for leaders who will take a stand and lead..an area of struggle in my marriage...desiring my husband to take a more active lead in spiritual and discipline matters in our home..
Maybe the expectation is not foolish, but more one I should have of both myself and others who are called Christians-- be they pastors over the home or the church body as a whole. My prayer is we will all be found faithful to stand firm in God's word...
Every minister has sworn an oath before God and his church to preserve, protect, and defend (if you will) our confession of faith. Of course, that's the language of the oath of the President of the US but it applies to Presbyterian ministers as well. They do swear similar oaths.
There are practical difficulties. Most ministers are very busy. They have a lot of demands on their time and, when it comes to issues such as these that might seem abstract and theological, they are tempted to say, "Let other men deal with it."
The three great negations of Presbyterianism—that is, the three great errors which it denies are—1. That all church power vests in the clergy. 2. That the apostolic office is perpetual. 3. That each individual Christian congregation is independent. The affirmative statement of these principles is—1. That the people have a right to a substantive part in the government of the Church. 2. That presbyters, who minister in word and doctrine, are the highest permanent officers of the Church, and all belong to the same order. 3. That the outward and visible Church is, or should be, one, in the sense that a smaller part is subject to a larger, and a larger to the whole. It is not holding one of these principles that makes a man a Presbyterian, but his holding them all.
Ok. I've got it.
But now when will we deal with the long-standing, arguably more problematic issues in our confessionally reformed circles like conversionism?
I recognize and understand the issues with FV/AAT/NPP and will do what I can to clean it out of the denominations I'm a part of (I'm currently in the process of transfer from PCA to OPC) but I'd like to see a serious handling of the other end of the stick.
I've never been examined by a Session as to my theological understanding of the Reformed faith. I've been asked to "share my testimony". When my daughter's faith was examined by our Session, she was asked to share a verse "that meant a lot to her". She wasn't examined from the catechism at all. In fact, no one in our 6 years there ever encouraged the members of the congregation to read the Standards as part of family worship from the pulpit. In fact, no one ever spoke of family worship.
The report passed alright. It was a great report, too. It nailed 'em. What'll I do? I'll watch both ends of the spectrum and work to see an orthodox reformed view of Church and Church ministry all the way around.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow!