Does it have to be private, lol? I'm interested in knowing as well.
And yet, by linking your blog, you are able to indirectly "discuss" (read: promote) your views without entertaining debate here. Seems a bit improper. Better to either engage on this forum (as you did in the past) or simply abstain altogether if you can't be bothered to do so, I would think.
I would understand Chapter 11 as Paul stating to us that the elect Israelite under the OC were part of what we would now term spiritual Israel, and those among them who were not of faith were cut off as not being really saved, and that under the NC now, we gentiles are through and by faith in same Messiah now seen as being included in the Spiritual Israel of God.
Here is where I'm hung up. If in the new covenant, none can be cut off, why would God even use such language? It just sounds like we can still break covenant with God. Hebrews even talks about spurning the blood of the covenant which sanctified us. How could a tare be sanctified by God unless there are some real relational factors involved?
Ryan, when Paul wrote, "Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off." (Romans 11:22), he was warning of the consequences of unbelief. In the following verse, speaking of the Jews, Paul writes, "And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again" (v. 23). Romans 11 is really about faith, not national origin. As Paul wrote in Romans 9:4 about Israel, "to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises". Israel had a rich heritage and tradition. They were the people of the covenant. The nation lost its standing because of unbelief, but we know from scripture that God's true people are one of faith; members of a better covenant (Hebrews 8:6).
I think I see what you're saying. But if this is about faith, how would you as a baptist say this is referring to people being cut off from salvation? I would think you as a Baptist would be the first to say that the NC is perfect and that one with faith cannot be cut off. Am I misunderstanding?
Think of this in the same way God warns us in Hebrews 6 to be found among the saved, and not to be shown in the end as being false professing Christians only in Hebrews Chapter 6.
My understanding of the OC was that there were some who were able to partake of those promised physical blessings due to obeying God, but did not mean automatically that they were saved, but only redeemed are included under the NC itself.
But the primary purpose was not land and a physical people! God had his saints among the OT throng--even a pretty large remnant in Elijah's time. But the land, the sacrifices, the types and shadows were speaking of a better time, when the Mediator of a new covenant would fulfill all those types, and then reign spiritually in the hearts of His true people, the redeemed of the Lord. Not redeemed from physical slavery in Egypt, but truly redeemed from the Egypt of their sins. In that day the covenant would be an unbreakable covenant, because there would be no unbelievers in the covenant--all who were actual members of this New Covenant would be regenerate. Why do you long to return to the types and shadows of the old covenant, wherein membership did not vouchsafe eternal life? Where the sign of the covenant applied so often meant nothing, salvifically speaking? Where you could be circumcised in the flesh but not in the heart?
I thought that the saving grace of the NC has already been applied towards the person who undergoes the rite now then?
Please rephrase--I don't understand what you said or asked. Or whether it was which.
Allow me to have one more crack at this, since in pondering it I recalled something that hasn't been mentioned. Because of the figurative language the Bible uses, we can't take every reference to children to mean "The immediate physical descendants of every individual". When God speaks to the nation of Israel about them, their children, and their children's children, He doesn't always mean the physical offspring of the individual readers. He means the heirs of Israel as a whole: the heirs of His people. So Isaiah 60:4, speaking of the Gentiles receiving the Gospel, says, "...thy sons shall come from far..." It's figurative language using the picture of a family to express a spiritual reality. Nations are often referred to in this way in the OT prophets "Virgin daughter of Babylon" "Shout, oh Daughter of Jerusalem" &ct.
I was just saying that there is no saving grace being imparted in the water baptism itself, so those who would be taking that rite would be the ones now actually under the NC. the saved in Christ. One must be saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit before taking the water baptism.
The offspring of Abraham would be those who shared in believing in the God of Israel, while not needing to be an actual Israelite.
Perfectly willing, if only I knew how. Perhaps a mod can do it for us.
Exactly. Or you could say: those believing in the Christ of the God of Abraham are the true Israel.
