The Missional Church

[Notthemama1984]

I listened to a series of lectures today on why the church should become missional and some aspects on how. At first the speaker was making some good points, but then once he started giving examples I realize he was advocating a Social Gospel mentality. A couple examples of what a good missional church looks like were, "an assistant pastor becoming the President of the local Soccer league (which meant he was never in church on Sunday because Soccer is like football and played on Sundays) in order to reach the soccer guys." Also "a church closing their doors on Sunday in order to be the volunteer force for the annual Air Show." And "a church should be using their website as a portal into the community. Peole should come to their website to receive information on the Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity and other groups. You should also have the community calendar on your website."

A big red flag arose when someone asked the question, "the next logical question that arises is why should a church pay thousands of dollars every year for a pastor who sits 20 hrs a week in his office, when the church can get the same thing for free because everyone is out in the world doing the work of the church." The speakers reply was basically, "yep."

This is truly sad. The speaker is apparently well respected on this topic and has written a few books. This means this is not just some fringe concept, but is gaining traction.

Has anyone else run into this kind of thinking?

 

[Andres]

That sounds like a bunch of garbage. Did the speaker think there was any importance in a church, oh I don't know, say... PREACHING THE GOSPEL?!!

 

[Notthemama1984]

I don't know. The Gospel never really came up. He did have a catchy phrase that I think I might use. He says that our churches have become "six flags over Jesus."

 

[Andres]

I don't know. The Gospel never really came up. He did have a catchy phrase that I think I might use. He says that our churches have become "six flags over Jesus."

okay, but he is basically advocating making them more theme park and less church! Doesn't make sense!

 

[Notthemama1984]

No he is advocating abandoning the church. He states that if six flags over Jesus was a model for success, then our church would be the most successful in history. Seeing how it isn't then it must not be the model. He goes on to redefine church as not a building on the corner of Main and 9th Ave, but rather we are the church. Therefore wherever we are, the church is. Thus we should have church at Wal-Mart, at the mall, at the ballgame, etc. We should engage in "God talk" with the world. We are bad at this because we only know how to have "church talk" (I have no clue how he defines those terms).

Oh I also forgot that he advocated replicating a church that lists how many community hours their church members served during the week. Somehow listing this gets people jazzed up for community service and more people will do it. So picking up trash on the side of the road is somehow being church.

 

[Andres]

Blah, still ridiculous and a horrendous idea. He clearly doesn't understand what the purpose of the church is, so this is why he can never get it right. To use the argument that the Six Flags model isn't working, so let's be missional is saying one way didn't work, so I'll use another wrong way instead. This is like using a cell phone to hammer in nails. It won't work right because that's not the purpose of a cell phone. This "guru" is saying, "well using a cellphone as a hammer didn't work, so let's use it as a fork instead". Nope, still not correct buddy.

 

[Notthemama1984]

I totally agree.

 

[Andres]

nice to see we hashed this out amongst ourselves.

 

[Notthemama1984]

There is nothing two Texans can't figure out together.

 

[Curt]

"Missional" is one of those words that turns me off.

 

[LawrenceU]

Missional is a buzz word in the emergent movement. Almost anything with that word in it should be avoided like rat brains.

 

[raekwon]

No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

I am not hip enough to use the word "missional".

 

[kvanlaan]

I do not have enough piercings or tattoos to use the word "missional".

six flags over Jesus

This is a Paul Washer phrase.

 

[Christusregnat]

Rae, "missional" is not a baby, it a gender-confused infantile specimen

 

[LawrenceU]

I don't know why a group of girls would be joining a men's poker night. One of them would be better served spending her money seeking counsel on facial hair removal.

 

[Scott1]

Nor does it seem to comport with the doctrine set forth in the denomination's Book of Order.

While its basis seems watered down compared to that set forth in biblical, reformed presbyterian denominations, it does recognize a power of order and jurisdiction- something not resident in laymen generally.

Evangelical Presbyterian Church
Book of Order

CHAPTER 3
The Power of the Church

§3-1 The power given to the Church by Christ is moral and spiritual, thus distinguishing the
government of the Church from civil government. The powers of the Church reside in the
Church as exercised in its courts and not in individuals. The use of these powers is for the
purpose of proclamation, administration, and enforcement of the laws of Jesus Christ as revealed
in Scripture. Exercise of these powers must always be in conformity with the Scripture.
§3-2 There are two kinds of powers of the Church: the Power of Order and the Power of Jurisdiction.

A. The Power of Order: This power is exercised by individuals who have been ordained. It
is the power to serve, to proclaim, and to minister in the name of Christ as undershepherd.
While such duty is incumbent upon every Christian, it is especially incumbent
upon those who are ordained to office. It includes especially the sharing of the Gospel,
reproving the erring, visiting the sick, and otherwise exhibiting to the world the fruit of
the Spirit.

B. The Power of Jurisdiction: This is the power to rule and is a joint power to be exercised
in Church courts in regular gradation. The exercise of such power shall always reflect the
essential unity of the Church.

 

[Notthemama1984]

No arguments from me on this one, Scott.

 

[BlackCalvinist]

It depends on who's defining 'missional'. I know a few 'missional' churches from the Acts 29 network whose pastors would agree with everything said in this thread. What they would define 'missional' as would simply be getting OUTSIDE of the church building and doing things for the community and in the community WHILE preaching the gospel. Flocks of people aren't exactly walking into churches except on Christmas, Mothers' Day and Easter.

We take this mentality (missional) when we send missionaries overseas, but it's rather hypocritical (in my opinion) to do that (be 'missional'), but ignore the local neighborhood you live in....OR to ignore the urban area 20 minutes down the street from you that is littered with crime, liquor stores and a random missionary baptist church or pentecostal storefront church on every other corner.

Many of the things that some of the more solid folk call 'missional' that get criticized....many of your/our denominations do already - you just do it in other countries when you send missionaries there (i.e. help build a church building, teach english classes, build a working well so the residents can have clean water, help build housing, feeding the poor).

So while I'm nowhere near advocating 'abandoning the church' as whomever the person is that Boliver is quoting, it's not like WE aren't already doing 'missional' things. The emergent folks are just saying 'do them locally'. With caution and without abandoning the church, making 'good works' our primary focus OR selling out the gospel for pragmatism, I would agree.

 

[C. M. Sheffield]

How did we survive two-thousand years of fighting for the faith, fleeing persecution, and advancing the Gospel without the word "missional"? I'm just glad we finally have it now! We can all breathe a deep sigh of relief.

 

[Ivan]

It depends on who's defining 'missional'. I know a few 'missional' churches from the Acts 29 network whose pastors would agree with everything said in this thread. What they would define 'missional' as would simply be getting OUTSIDE of the church building and doing things for the community and in the community WHILE preaching the gospel.

This is exactly my definition of "missional". The Emergent crowd can have theirs.

 

[Dr. Bob Gonzales]

I agree with "Raekwon," "BlackCalvinist," and "Ivan." In fact, I find the missional emphasis (when biblically defined) refreshing and a needed element among churches steeped in the Reformed and Puritan tradition. The Reformed and Puritan symbols are wonderful, but they lack something important, namely, a sufficient emphasis on both minister and lay-person advancing the gospel outside the gathered church. Perhaps because they lived in a sacral society, they viewed evangelism primary in terms of pastors preaching to sinners who come to church. But as Mr. Gilliard pointed out, that doesn't happen frequently in a non-sacral, post-Christian society. So we need to work harder at equipping our people to reach out. This is the baby we shouldn't throw out with the bathwater.

 

[Pergamum]

I do think many churches need to engage more in works of mercy.

However, ironically, many "missional" churches are not very "missionary-minded" and some have not really sent people cross-culturally.

 

[Jared]

I can't remember where I read this, but I believe I read somewhere that Tim Keller was one of the first people to use the term "missional". According to the article, he first used the term back in the early nineties.

According to wikipedia, the term missional gained popularity through a number of people using the term including Tim Keller and Ed Stetzer. I have always heard that most of the people in the emerging church, even the more liberal people in that movement, come from more of a reformed background.

Mark Driscoll has said that he was always reformed a believer because he came to faith under those teachings. And yet, when the emerging church was getting started in the late nineties, he was a part of it. He left the EC because of some of the leaders who began to espouse feminist theology and other aberrations of Christian thought.

A lot of emerging church people I think would have certain things in common with the reformed people. For instance, many of them, although not all, would be skeptical of many of the practices of the Charismatic movement. Also, they would tend to dislike dispensationalism. And, those in the emerging church are usually not really interested in giving altar calls, although probably not for the same reasons that most reformed churches don't give them.

Now that the emerging church is over, I think that some of these similarities might help us to reach out to those who were once a part of the EC.

I think many of them may go that direction and embrace a reformed soteriology. But, some of them will probably join liberal denominations.

I didn't mean to go off topic. If anyone is interested in discussing this further, perhaps we can start another thread.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

In my estimation, a Missional Church is one in which the preaching and teaching of God's Word faithfully and consistently transforms the lives of men and women so they don't have to be led by the nose to be "missional".

The poverty of missions is directly proportional to the poverty in the hearing of the Word of God.

I've been privileged to teach people who traveled land and sea to be missionaries. They had zeal for God and loved their neighbor as they could. The zeal they have now after understanding the Word and the power of the Gospel eclipses anything they had previously.

Stapling fruit to a dead tree doesn't work.

 

[Kevin]

I use the term ("missional") to refer to the practice of "thinking & acting like a missionary, without leaving home". This is (more or less) the way Keller, Stetzer, and Driscoll use it. In this sense it is a very good term & a great idea to encourage among christians.

We are all OK with the idea that when "missionaries" travel to pagan countries that they should plan their activities & how they spend their time in an intentional way. That they should think about the people they meet with a plan to building a closer relationship, so that they may introduce them to Jesus.

To be missional means that we in the west should do the same thing.

The term as used by orthodox christians contrasts this idea with the traditional N. American style of "atractional" christianity that has prevailed for the last 100+ years. That we should "attract" (by programs, or invitation) the lost to the church & then the minister will do all of the evangelising.

Some branches of the church have endoresed "attractionalism" whole heartedly. i.e. The seeker movement, some fundies (BJU brand), many charismatics, and all of the "faith" movement. The rest of us have tacitly adopted it. In the reformed world we have much of the blame for this because of our historical provincialism when we read our standards (my opinion). Since the presbyterian & reformed pastors & theologians have been the "Thought Leaders" among Evangelicals in the west (even among those that profess to reject all of our distinctives our influence is still widespread). Our failure to exegeate our standards so that we might understand the role of the church vis evangelism at the point in history that they were formed has caused us to be blind to our failure to confront the growing paganism around us.