C. Matthew McMahon
Christian Preacher
This is an interesting email exchange with a fanatic. You can tell his disposition by his initial email to Scott. I am posting here because I want to get your impression of his attitude, and whether you think he is displaying Christ, even if he is right or wrong about his doctrine. I did not fill in all my answers, but you can see what he chose to respond to and how he responded. Tell me what you think overall.
__________________________________________
Scott first wrote me:
Matt,
I don't have the patience for this..........
___________
Scott,
I'm just curious. I didn't think Matt--or you (since you have responded on his behalf)--would mind answering them. Pick any 4, if you don't want to answer all 9.
Sincerely,
Keith
Hi Matt. I have a few questions for you.
1) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev 13?
2) Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2?
3) Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9?
4) Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17?
5) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev 13?
6) Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2?
7) Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9?
8) Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11?
9) What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev 13?
Thanks for your time.
In Christ,
Keith
EMAIL #2
Thank you for finally answering Matt. As I suspected, your answers (with the exception of #4, which you won't even be dogmatic about) wholly omit any and all references to the church of Rome, and her head, the papacy.
Contrary to your idealist approach to the Revelation, Christians from the Waldenses, Albigenses, and Lollards...to Bishop Cranmer, John Wycliffe, and William Tyndale...to Arthur Dent, Joseph Mede, William Fulke, and King James...to E.B. Elliott, Isaac Newton, and Charles Haddon Spurgeon UNANIMOUSLY found the beast and its false church in ROME! In other words, your so-called reformed doctrine, which you "can't get enough of," at least as it pertains to eschatology, is in DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THE BELIEFS AND PROCLAMATIONS THAT ABOUNDED DURING BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER THE REFORMATION!
Here are the CENTURIES-OLD proclamations of Christians who came before us:
1) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev 13? THE PAPACY
2) Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2? THE PAPACY
3) Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9? THE PAPACY
4) Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17? THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
5) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev 13? THE CARDINALS, MONKS, PRIESTS, ETC
6) Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2? THE ROMAN EMPIRE
7) Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9? THE SACERANS (MUSLIMS)
8) Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11? ALL TEACHERS PREACHERS AND PROPHETS
9) What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev 13?
a) Mark = SIGN OF THE CROSS or INDELIBLE MARK IMPRINTED WHEN PRELATES ARE BAPTIZED, CONFIRMED, AND RECEIVE HOLY ORDERS.
b) Name = LATEINOS (Latin Man)
c) Number = 666, the sum of Greek letters in LATEINOS
In Christ,
Keith
EMAIL #3
So answer me this, "Doctor Matt:"
1) Why are there no articles at your site, authored by you, or anyone else, regarding the papal beast and Roman Catholic Church(Mystery Babylon), IF YOU AGREE WITH THE WCF? Why are you not correcting other so-called "reformed" brethren...who are neither truly reformed, nor truly Calvinist...who are looking for a FUTURE antichrist to sit in a literal Jewish Temple during a "3 1/2 year great tribulation?" Afraid of stepping on futurist toes? Or is it that you just aren't willing to take the time to explain to a futurist how it is that:
a) the man of sin, aka the beast, aka the little horn, aka the antichrist, is a DYNASTY of popes, rather than an individual super-Jew of the future,
b) that the great tribulation is 1260 years, not 3 1/2,
c) and that the Temple of God is the BODY OF Christ, aka the TRUE CHURCH, not a literal Jewish temple?
2) If *I* am the ignorant one, why is it MY answers to those 9 questions AGREE with the testimonies of millions of saints of old, from the 12th century to the 19th...while YOUR answers were wholly UNKNOWN TO THEM?!?!?! Have you actually READ any of those works you listed?
How is it, doctor, that the writings of Reformation era saints (concerning the identity of antichrist and Mystery Babylon) make perfect sense to me, while YOU NEED TO SHOW THEM ALL UP WITH YOUR "INTELLECT"...GIVING A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION TO THE BEAST FROM THE SEA, THE MAN OF SIN, AND THE LITTLE HORN? Do you think you're SMARTER, or more spiritually discerning than they were?
I didn't cite specific citations because I KNOW YOU HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING I HAVE, seeing you own the Reformation and Puritan Bookshelves from SWRB! To own those 2 massive libraries, and STILL take it upon yourself to muster up the mind-blowing nerve to identify the beast that rose out of the sea in Rev 13 as the "DEVIL," the man of sin of 2 Thes 2 as "ANTICHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT," and the little horn of Daniel 9 as "ANTICHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT," is the HEIGHT of arrogance, and demonstrates a LACK of LOVE for the brethren on your part, when you oppose so great a cloud of witnesses!
Your "historical survey" is quite lacking by way of scholarly citation. If I were to walk into a room with your "list", I would be laughed out of the room. Rather, you want to be sure you know exactly who said what and what they believed. What I mean is that when you cite "authoritative sources" for a given argument, you want to make sure they are "academic" sources there as well or people will not take you seriously. Saying that "Christians all through the centuries" believed "such and such" is no argument unless you cite and prove, by first sources, what they said.
Wrong. Had I given a hundred SPECIFIC citations from Francis Turretin, William Whitaker, William Fulke, John Jewel, Walter Brute, John Foxe, David Pareus, Henry More, Thomas Brightman, E.B. Elliott, James Durham, Arthur Dent, Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas Manton, John Knox, Thomas Boston, William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, Matthew Henry, John Calvin, Joseph Mede, or anyone else, all showing your answers to questions 1-4, for example, to be COMPLETELY WRONG,
would you have acknowledged error, and changed your answers? If so, I WILL GLADLY CITE THEM!!!
Does SEEING the actual quotations from a hundred men somehow give you a more receptive spirit, than merely telling you they all believed contrary to you? As one who claims to be "reformed" and a Calvinist, you surely know what the Reformers, and Calvin himself, taught, regarding antichrist, don't you? Talk about needing to grow up. You know full well your statement emphasized above (in red) is a LIE. I could give you countless citations until I'm blue in the face. Nothing will be "proven" to one who thinks he knows better...such as yourself.
In other words, keep on laughing. While you spend time talking to yourself, that is, while you refute your old baptism articles in a schizophrenic debate with yourself, I am daily engaging "teachers" like you, who teach their flock that antichrist is anything and everything EXCEPT what the Reformers, and those who followed, SAID it was! They were persecuted, tortured, and killed for proclaiming things you deny, and, for which, you are neither persecuted, tortured, or killed. Think long and hard about that.
As for this:
I would still hold that the position of those "Antichristian influences" would be out of the church of Rome.
You seem to go to great lengths in choosing your words, so as not to specifically NAME anyone or anything. You will go so far as to say those "influences" would be OUT OF the church of Rome, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE FORTITUDE TO SPECIFICALLY NAME THEM! You also say "The WCF makes it clear that Antichrist would come out of Rome." Would come??? Therein lies your problem, "pastor"...YOU ARE A FUTURIST AT HEART!!! As such, you OPPOSE ONE OF THE RALLYING CRIES OF THE REFORMATION!!! Take heed. The LACK of articles at your site EXPOSING the papal beast and its false church speaks volumes, and proves you don't really believe what you would have me think you believe.
In Christ,
Keith
The Beast Unmasked
Email #4
"Which is more important for the Reformed church right now, understanding salvation, or helping them to see that Rome is the Antichrist? Think about it. Right now they need to understand covenant theology, not Rome. Rome can come later when they understand salvation first."
First of all, I never said ROME was the antichrist! You really have no clue what the saints of the Reformation era believed about antichrist, do you?
Secondly, to know Christ is to know antichrist. Did all the martyrs understand covenant theology, before they proclaimed their murderers to be antichrist? Did a godly martyr named Mrs. Prest (Foxe, vol. 8) understand the intricacies of covenant theology, before she told her papal inquisitors that the pope was antichrist, and the devil? You would do well to hear the words of one who was less educated than you, yet had the discernment to recognize the beast in her midst, and witness against it, as well as its harlot church (Rev 12)...despite the fact that her husband and children were Roman Catholics who persecuted her for speaking the truth, AND, the whole time knowing the fate that awaited her--i.e., being burned alive at the stake!
QUOTE FROM ACTS AND MONUMENTS, VOL 8:
**He quotes a whole bunch of pages about martyrs dying by the hand of the Catholic Church*
The Holy Spirit inspired testimony of Mrs Prest (Matt 10) is truly miles apart from anything I've read from you, Matt. She had no degrees. She didn't have a bunch of letters and abbreviations before, or after, her name. She didn't spend time refuting erroneous things she may have written or said in the past. She studied Scripture, and NAMED NAMES, when antichrist started persecuting her! HAd you been alive in her day, what would you have said to her? "Now, now, Mrs. Prest. We need to teach others how to understand their salvation and Covenant Theology. Don't speak too loudly, when publicly condemning the pope as antichrist. There may be people out there who aren't saved yet. As such, we wouldn't want to place the cart before the horse, and tell them antichrist is here."
Do you see how utterly anti-christian your statement is, Matt? YOU WOULD HAVE CHRISTIANS WHO RECOGNIZE Christ'S ENEMY...THE BEAST...ANTICHRIST...THE LITTLE HORN...KEEP QUIET ABOUT IT, UNTIL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND COVENANT THEOLOGY, AND HOW THEY WERE SAVED?!?!?!?!
When you convince someone that Rome is the Antichrist, what do they do? Do they say, I fell like I have been born again,? Well, when people understand covenant theology, and Baptist pastors, and dispensational pastors read my articles in climbing out of that twisted mess of theological drivel they call dispensationalism or New covenant Theology, that is what they say. I just had a pastor email me that is a Baptist who said he was floored after reading "A Simplistic Overview of Covenant Theology." now what do I need him to understand at this point more? should I help him understand Rome is the Antichrist, or how he was saved by Christ?
What I see in that bit of rationalization is PRIDE. You crave the praise of men. Shame on you.
How dare you say that I am writing in my schiztophrenic arena on covenant theology, as if it is a game or something. How dare you!? Tell be about covenant theology. Tell me about how you were saved. Tell me about how god saves through covenatns. if you do nto understand that, no amoutn of Rome/antichrist doctrine will save you. you will be damned along with your knoweldge.
So I need to UNDERSTAND how God drew me to Himself and saved me according to HIS will, not mine, to actually BE saved? I think not. In fact, you have condemned YOURSELF! Read Revelation, and tell me who it is that wonders after, and worships, the beast. THOSE WHOSE NAMES HAVE NOT BEEN WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE! In other words, those who RECOGNIZE the beast are the only ones who won't WONDER after him, and look for ANOTHER! Hence, it is that group ALONE who have been elected. Not recognizing the beast PRESENTLY in our midst is a bad omen, Matt. The fact that you admitted I'm not the first who has tried proclaiming these things to you sends a chill down my spine. I will not speculate as to why you have not the eyes to see what millions of Christian martyrs saw during the dark ages, the Reformation, and the centuries that followed.
Seeing citations would mean you have studied.
Hogwash! I told you why I didn't spend hours putting citations together for you! And I will ask youthis once again:
If I post the citations that prove you to be teaching something contrary to what the Reformers, and those who followed them, taught concerning antichrist, will you acknowledge error?
If not, what good are the citations then? Unlike you, I don't need to write like a scholar, with a hundred quotes from a hundred different books I've read, to get my point across. Vanity seems to be your M.O.
I do not deny that Rome is Antichrist. Did you miss that?
Be sure I did not. I also didn't miss what you did NOT say, and how careful you were in choosing your words.
The office of the Antichrist is the papal succession. The Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John Paul 1st. We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene. We can say that the line is Antichrist (and I do). So what is the problem?
THE EMPHASIZED SENTENCE MAKES YOU A FUTURIST, AND PLACES YOU IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THE ENTIRE REFORMATION, AS WELL AS EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN MARTYR WHO PROCLAIMED THEIR KILLER TO BE THE ANTICHRIST!!!
I am no furutrist. I would be Millennial, but with a twist.
I don't think you know WHAT you are, or WHAT you believe.
You seem to be stuck on cornering me into saying I don't agree with you? Why is that?
Rome is no doubt the Antichrist. I agree with the WCF, again, did you miss that?
You don't agree with the WCF at all, in denying antichrist to be IN OUR MIDST!
But....Let's be thoroughly exegetical about it.
Remember, we should always be able to prove what we say.
LOL...ok, Doc. I'll play your game. Prove to me you're saved.
Show me ONE VERSE that says "The Catholic Church is the Antichrist." No symbols, no metaphors. Something that demonstrates your exegesis. Do you have an exegetical paper that demonstrates this, or are you relying on someone else's work?
You have a definite reading problem, Matt. First you claimed earlier that I said ROME was the antichrist. Now you say I claim the Catholic Church is the antichrist...WHEN I'VE SAID NEITHER!!! Do you even KNOW who Christians from the 16th - 19th centuries identified as antichrist?
Show me ONE VERSE that says THE BEAST AND LITTLE HORN ARE ANTICHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT! Or, how about ONE VERSE that uses the words TRINITY, BIBLE, or COVENANT THEOLOGY? Duh...
If you cannot demonstrate exegetically your position, then it is no position, and we are both in the same boat - we both have not written anything on the Antichrist being Rome. I have written nothing, and you have written nothing. Citing other's work is not biblically helpful.
You have just proven to me that you've lost your mind, and have fallen into the pit of intellectualism! Citing others' work is not "biblically helpful?" Of what use, then, are the teachers, preachers, and prophets of the last 2000 years, that God has graciously provided for His people? We can READ their works, but, unless we write an "exegetical" paper on the matter, and show off our own brains, nothing we would cite from Foxe, Pareus, Brightman, Cotton, Spurgeon, et al would be helpful? Talk about ego. I would stop my "education" immediately, if I were you. Praise God a Ph.D. wasn't required of Paul, Daniel, and John, before God could use them to tell us about the beast's birth, acts, and demise! Fortunately, there are others like me alerting the sleeping elect to the beast's identity.
Keith
END OF EXCHANGE
He has a site called "The beast Unmasked." He ahs one article out there he wrote (which is quite pathetic) but, in all this, what do you think of his attitude? Would you listent o him or take counsel from him?
Title edited by puritansailor
__________________________________________
Scott first wrote me:
Matt,
I don't have the patience for this..........
___________
Scott,
I'm just curious. I didn't think Matt--or you (since you have responded on his behalf)--would mind answering them. Pick any 4, if you don't want to answer all 9.
Sincerely,
Keith
Hi Matt. I have a few questions for you.
1) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev 13?
2) Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2?
3) Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9?
4) Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17?
5) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev 13?
6) Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2?
7) Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9?
8) Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11?
9) What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev 13?
Thanks for your time.
In Christ,
Keith
EMAIL #2
Thank you for finally answering Matt. As I suspected, your answers (with the exception of #4, which you won't even be dogmatic about) wholly omit any and all references to the church of Rome, and her head, the papacy.
Contrary to your idealist approach to the Revelation, Christians from the Waldenses, Albigenses, and Lollards...to Bishop Cranmer, John Wycliffe, and William Tyndale...to Arthur Dent, Joseph Mede, William Fulke, and King James...to E.B. Elliott, Isaac Newton, and Charles Haddon Spurgeon UNANIMOUSLY found the beast and its false church in ROME! In other words, your so-called reformed doctrine, which you "can't get enough of," at least as it pertains to eschatology, is in DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THE BELIEFS AND PROCLAMATIONS THAT ABOUNDED DURING BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER THE REFORMATION!
Here are the CENTURIES-OLD proclamations of Christians who came before us:
1) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the sea, in Rev 13? THE PAPACY
2) Who/what is the man of sin of 2 Thes 2? THE PAPACY
3) Who/what is the little horn of Daniel 9? THE PAPACY
4) Who/what is Mystery, Babylon the Great of Rev 17? THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
5) Who/what is the beast that rose out of the earth, in Rev 13? THE CARDINALS, MONKS, PRIESTS, ETC
6) Who/what is the "let" of 2 Thes 2? THE ROMAN EMPIRE
7) Who/what are the Locusts of Rev 9? THE SACERANS (MUSLIMS)
8) Who/what are the two witnesses of Rev 11? ALL TEACHERS PREACHERS AND PROPHETS
9) What is the mark, name, and number of the beast, in Rev 13?
a) Mark = SIGN OF THE CROSS or INDELIBLE MARK IMPRINTED WHEN PRELATES ARE BAPTIZED, CONFIRMED, AND RECEIVE HOLY ORDERS.
b) Name = LATEINOS (Latin Man)
c) Number = 666, the sum of Greek letters in LATEINOS
In Christ,
Keith
EMAIL #3
So answer me this, "Doctor Matt:"
1) Why are there no articles at your site, authored by you, or anyone else, regarding the papal beast and Roman Catholic Church(Mystery Babylon), IF YOU AGREE WITH THE WCF? Why are you not correcting other so-called "reformed" brethren...who are neither truly reformed, nor truly Calvinist...who are looking for a FUTURE antichrist to sit in a literal Jewish Temple during a "3 1/2 year great tribulation?" Afraid of stepping on futurist toes? Or is it that you just aren't willing to take the time to explain to a futurist how it is that:
a) the man of sin, aka the beast, aka the little horn, aka the antichrist, is a DYNASTY of popes, rather than an individual super-Jew of the future,
b) that the great tribulation is 1260 years, not 3 1/2,
c) and that the Temple of God is the BODY OF Christ, aka the TRUE CHURCH, not a literal Jewish temple?
2) If *I* am the ignorant one, why is it MY answers to those 9 questions AGREE with the testimonies of millions of saints of old, from the 12th century to the 19th...while YOUR answers were wholly UNKNOWN TO THEM?!?!?! Have you actually READ any of those works you listed?
How is it, doctor, that the writings of Reformation era saints (concerning the identity of antichrist and Mystery Babylon) make perfect sense to me, while YOU NEED TO SHOW THEM ALL UP WITH YOUR "INTELLECT"...GIVING A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION TO THE BEAST FROM THE SEA, THE MAN OF SIN, AND THE LITTLE HORN? Do you think you're SMARTER, or more spiritually discerning than they were?
I didn't cite specific citations because I KNOW YOU HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING I HAVE, seeing you own the Reformation and Puritan Bookshelves from SWRB! To own those 2 massive libraries, and STILL take it upon yourself to muster up the mind-blowing nerve to identify the beast that rose out of the sea in Rev 13 as the "DEVIL," the man of sin of 2 Thes 2 as "ANTICHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT," and the little horn of Daniel 9 as "ANTICHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT," is the HEIGHT of arrogance, and demonstrates a LACK of LOVE for the brethren on your part, when you oppose so great a cloud of witnesses!
Your "historical survey" is quite lacking by way of scholarly citation. If I were to walk into a room with your "list", I would be laughed out of the room. Rather, you want to be sure you know exactly who said what and what they believed. What I mean is that when you cite "authoritative sources" for a given argument, you want to make sure they are "academic" sources there as well or people will not take you seriously. Saying that "Christians all through the centuries" believed "such and such" is no argument unless you cite and prove, by first sources, what they said.
Wrong. Had I given a hundred SPECIFIC citations from Francis Turretin, William Whitaker, William Fulke, John Jewel, Walter Brute, John Foxe, David Pareus, Henry More, Thomas Brightman, E.B. Elliott, James Durham, Arthur Dent, Sir Isaac Newton, Thomas Manton, John Knox, Thomas Boston, William Tyndale, John Wycliffe, Matthew Henry, John Calvin, Joseph Mede, or anyone else, all showing your answers to questions 1-4, for example, to be COMPLETELY WRONG,
would you have acknowledged error, and changed your answers? If so, I WILL GLADLY CITE THEM!!!
Does SEEING the actual quotations from a hundred men somehow give you a more receptive spirit, than merely telling you they all believed contrary to you? As one who claims to be "reformed" and a Calvinist, you surely know what the Reformers, and Calvin himself, taught, regarding antichrist, don't you? Talk about needing to grow up. You know full well your statement emphasized above (in red) is a LIE. I could give you countless citations until I'm blue in the face. Nothing will be "proven" to one who thinks he knows better...such as yourself.
In other words, keep on laughing. While you spend time talking to yourself, that is, while you refute your old baptism articles in a schizophrenic debate with yourself, I am daily engaging "teachers" like you, who teach their flock that antichrist is anything and everything EXCEPT what the Reformers, and those who followed, SAID it was! They were persecuted, tortured, and killed for proclaiming things you deny, and, for which, you are neither persecuted, tortured, or killed. Think long and hard about that.
As for this:
I would still hold that the position of those "Antichristian influences" would be out of the church of Rome.
You seem to go to great lengths in choosing your words, so as not to specifically NAME anyone or anything. You will go so far as to say those "influences" would be OUT OF the church of Rome, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE FORTITUDE TO SPECIFICALLY NAME THEM! You also say "The WCF makes it clear that Antichrist would come out of Rome." Would come??? Therein lies your problem, "pastor"...YOU ARE A FUTURIST AT HEART!!! As such, you OPPOSE ONE OF THE RALLYING CRIES OF THE REFORMATION!!! Take heed. The LACK of articles at your site EXPOSING the papal beast and its false church speaks volumes, and proves you don't really believe what you would have me think you believe.
In Christ,
Keith
The Beast Unmasked
Email #4
"Which is more important for the Reformed church right now, understanding salvation, or helping them to see that Rome is the Antichrist? Think about it. Right now they need to understand covenant theology, not Rome. Rome can come later when they understand salvation first."
First of all, I never said ROME was the antichrist! You really have no clue what the saints of the Reformation era believed about antichrist, do you?
Secondly, to know Christ is to know antichrist. Did all the martyrs understand covenant theology, before they proclaimed their murderers to be antichrist? Did a godly martyr named Mrs. Prest (Foxe, vol. 8) understand the intricacies of covenant theology, before she told her papal inquisitors that the pope was antichrist, and the devil? You would do well to hear the words of one who was less educated than you, yet had the discernment to recognize the beast in her midst, and witness against it, as well as its harlot church (Rev 12)...despite the fact that her husband and children were Roman Catholics who persecuted her for speaking the truth, AND, the whole time knowing the fate that awaited her--i.e., being burned alive at the stake!
QUOTE FROM ACTS AND MONUMENTS, VOL 8:
**He quotes a whole bunch of pages about martyrs dying by the hand of the Catholic Church*
The Holy Spirit inspired testimony of Mrs Prest (Matt 10) is truly miles apart from anything I've read from you, Matt. She had no degrees. She didn't have a bunch of letters and abbreviations before, or after, her name. She didn't spend time refuting erroneous things she may have written or said in the past. She studied Scripture, and NAMED NAMES, when antichrist started persecuting her! HAd you been alive in her day, what would you have said to her? "Now, now, Mrs. Prest. We need to teach others how to understand their salvation and Covenant Theology. Don't speak too loudly, when publicly condemning the pope as antichrist. There may be people out there who aren't saved yet. As such, we wouldn't want to place the cart before the horse, and tell them antichrist is here."
Do you see how utterly anti-christian your statement is, Matt? YOU WOULD HAVE CHRISTIANS WHO RECOGNIZE Christ'S ENEMY...THE BEAST...ANTICHRIST...THE LITTLE HORN...KEEP QUIET ABOUT IT, UNTIL PEOPLE UNDERSTAND COVENANT THEOLOGY, AND HOW THEY WERE SAVED?!?!?!?!
When you convince someone that Rome is the Antichrist, what do they do? Do they say, I fell like I have been born again,? Well, when people understand covenant theology, and Baptist pastors, and dispensational pastors read my articles in climbing out of that twisted mess of theological drivel they call dispensationalism or New covenant Theology, that is what they say. I just had a pastor email me that is a Baptist who said he was floored after reading "A Simplistic Overview of Covenant Theology." now what do I need him to understand at this point more? should I help him understand Rome is the Antichrist, or how he was saved by Christ?
What I see in that bit of rationalization is PRIDE. You crave the praise of men. Shame on you.
How dare you say that I am writing in my schiztophrenic arena on covenant theology, as if it is a game or something. How dare you!? Tell be about covenant theology. Tell me about how you were saved. Tell me about how god saves through covenatns. if you do nto understand that, no amoutn of Rome/antichrist doctrine will save you. you will be damned along with your knoweldge.
So I need to UNDERSTAND how God drew me to Himself and saved me according to HIS will, not mine, to actually BE saved? I think not. In fact, you have condemned YOURSELF! Read Revelation, and tell me who it is that wonders after, and worships, the beast. THOSE WHOSE NAMES HAVE NOT BEEN WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE! In other words, those who RECOGNIZE the beast are the only ones who won't WONDER after him, and look for ANOTHER! Hence, it is that group ALONE who have been elected. Not recognizing the beast PRESENTLY in our midst is a bad omen, Matt. The fact that you admitted I'm not the first who has tried proclaiming these things to you sends a chill down my spine. I will not speculate as to why you have not the eyes to see what millions of Christian martyrs saw during the dark ages, the Reformation, and the centuries that followed.
Seeing citations would mean you have studied.
Hogwash! I told you why I didn't spend hours putting citations together for you! And I will ask youthis once again:
If I post the citations that prove you to be teaching something contrary to what the Reformers, and those who followed them, taught concerning antichrist, will you acknowledge error?
If not, what good are the citations then? Unlike you, I don't need to write like a scholar, with a hundred quotes from a hundred different books I've read, to get my point across. Vanity seems to be your M.O.
I do not deny that Rome is Antichrist. Did you miss that?
Be sure I did not. I also didn't miss what you did NOT say, and how careful you were in choosing your words.
The office of the Antichrist is the papal succession. The Antichrist himself was not Pope Innocent the III, or Pope John Paul 1st. We will have to "see" who may be the "one" "giant" Antichrist, that man of sin, when he arises to the scene. We can say that the line is Antichrist (and I do). So what is the problem?
THE EMPHASIZED SENTENCE MAKES YOU A FUTURIST, AND PLACES YOU IN DIRECT OPPOSITION TO THE ENTIRE REFORMATION, AS WELL AS EVERY SINGLE CHRISTIAN MARTYR WHO PROCLAIMED THEIR KILLER TO BE THE ANTICHRIST!!!
I am no furutrist. I would be Millennial, but with a twist.
I don't think you know WHAT you are, or WHAT you believe.
You seem to be stuck on cornering me into saying I don't agree with you? Why is that?
Rome is no doubt the Antichrist. I agree with the WCF, again, did you miss that?
You don't agree with the WCF at all, in denying antichrist to be IN OUR MIDST!
But....Let's be thoroughly exegetical about it.
Remember, we should always be able to prove what we say.
LOL...ok, Doc. I'll play your game. Prove to me you're saved.
Show me ONE VERSE that says "The Catholic Church is the Antichrist." No symbols, no metaphors. Something that demonstrates your exegesis. Do you have an exegetical paper that demonstrates this, or are you relying on someone else's work?
You have a definite reading problem, Matt. First you claimed earlier that I said ROME was the antichrist. Now you say I claim the Catholic Church is the antichrist...WHEN I'VE SAID NEITHER!!! Do you even KNOW who Christians from the 16th - 19th centuries identified as antichrist?
Show me ONE VERSE that says THE BEAST AND LITTLE HORN ARE ANTICHRISTIAN GOVERNMENT! Or, how about ONE VERSE that uses the words TRINITY, BIBLE, or COVENANT THEOLOGY? Duh...
If you cannot demonstrate exegetically your position, then it is no position, and we are both in the same boat - we both have not written anything on the Antichrist being Rome. I have written nothing, and you have written nothing. Citing other's work is not biblically helpful.
You have just proven to me that you've lost your mind, and have fallen into the pit of intellectualism! Citing others' work is not "biblically helpful?" Of what use, then, are the teachers, preachers, and prophets of the last 2000 years, that God has graciously provided for His people? We can READ their works, but, unless we write an "exegetical" paper on the matter, and show off our own brains, nothing we would cite from Foxe, Pareus, Brightman, Cotton, Spurgeon, et al would be helpful? Talk about ego. I would stop my "education" immediately, if I were you. Praise God a Ph.D. wasn't required of Paul, Daniel, and John, before God could use them to tell us about the beast's birth, acts, and demise! Fortunately, there are others like me alerting the sleeping elect to the beast's identity.
Keith
END OF EXCHANGE
He has a site called "The beast Unmasked." He ahs one article out there he wrote (which is quite pathetic) but, in all this, what do you think of his attitude? Would you listent o him or take counsel from him?
Title edited by puritansailor