The Future of Protestantism April 29th

Discussion in 'Federal Vision/New Perspectives' started by SRoper, Apr 28, 2014.

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  1. SRoper

    SRoper Puritan Board Graduate

  2. Hamalas

    Hamalas whippersnapper

    Sign up on the website and they'll send you a link tomorrow. I can't wait!
  3. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks much, I am looking forward to this.
  4. SRoper

    SRoper Puritan Board Graduate

    I just got an email with the link this morning.
  5. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    Am I too late!! Can't find the signup form.
  6. SRoper

    SRoper Puritan Board Graduate

    You have to enter your email address into the form on the right and hit subscribe. I don't know if you are too late, though!
  7. Hamalas

    Hamalas whippersnapper

  8. Backwoods Presbyterian

    Backwoods Presbyterian Puritanboard Amanuensis

    This was very much a worthwhile endeavor that I hope is the springboard for more and more of these kinds of events.
  9. Christopher88

    Christopher88 Puritan Board Sophomore

    What were some of the points made?
  10. Philip

    Philip Puritan Board Graduate

    I watched it this afternoon. All in all, Leithart's concerns are valid insofar as we tend to associate with our tribe rather than with the church catholic, and I share his appreciation for historic Protestant forms of worship. Yet Trueman's cautions were, I think, much sounder both in terms of the reformed confessions and Biblically. The danger of ecumenism is that it tends to downplay differences in favour of "unity" (whatever that means). He recognizes that Christians in the reformed tradition still have a valid protest against Rome (and a very different one against Constantinople) and I'm not entirely sure Leithart addressed that adequately. You can't have unity without truth and common confession.
  11. belin

    belin Puritan Board Freshman

    In light of the points regarding "urge protestants to come out of tribalism," "concern to solve disunity in protestant church," I would like to say about such an experiment that contributed to the decline of the church in the place where I was born and raised.

    Until 1950 there were good number of protestant denomination churches in south India like Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran, Congregationalist, Presbyterian, Baptist. But after independence when the British left, for the sake of protestant unity the church leaders got together and decided to unite. The Anglican churches decided that the 39 Articles of the Church of England would be given up for the Apostoles/Nicene creed. Presbyterian churches gave up WCF for the ancient creeds. Congregationalist churches and some Methodist and Lutheran churches did likewise. Order of church service was left to the Anglican party as it was in the majority. Thus the church of south India (CSI) was formed with the motto, "that they all may be one" (John 17:21). Today, outside the pentecostal/charismatic churches this denomination has about 90% of the entire protestant church population.

    By God's grace I became a reformed christian 10 years back. So I ask the CSI leaders that I run into about the church beliefs. At best, they point to Apostles/Nicene creed. Until today I have not met a minister of the CSI church who knows or even heard of LBCF, WCF, 39 Articles ( is true), Augsburg Conf, Savoy Decl. or any of the conf. standards. Many do not know whether such a thing like Reformation happened, although some remember Luther. As far as catechisms, I have only heard from some of my grandmas that they used to learn them. Today the scene in the church is very sad. Corruption, formalism, ritualism, ecumenism, feminism, liberalism and everything contrary to the Word is in. This does not mean that there are no reformed believers in the CSI church.

    For the past 10 years I have I have not stopped lamenting the blunder that the church leaders made 65 years ago. I strongly believe that some would have truly survived as confessional reformed churches. God only know how many souls have been affected due to this decision. A fresh start of Reformation churches is what is needed ... not human efforts at "superficial unity based on our longings and wishes" Until then it is better to hold to the faith that was delivered to us. I prefer to affirm the way Dr Trueman made the comment towards the end- it is better and blessed to remain a "sort of cold hearted OPC guy."
  12. Kevin

    Kevin Puritan Board Doctor

  13. SRoper

    SRoper Puritan Board Graduate

    I thought the moderator (who I'm pretty sure rode to the debate on a penny-farthing) tended to ask more pointed questions of Leithart than Trueman did, which surprised me somewhat.

    I thought Trueman raising pastoral concerns was an interesting and unexpected approach, but I'm not sure how far it got him.

    It seems that Leithart would be very happy in Anglicanism.
  14. Philip

    Philip Puritan Board Graduate

    I've thought that for a while. He would actually be a good person for the ACNA to have in its corner.

    Also, recap from Fred Sanders: Prescriptions for Protestants.
  15. SRoper

    SRoper Puritan Board Graduate

  16. Michael K

    Michael K Puritan Board Freshman

    This sums up my feelings nicely. Thanks, SRoper.
  17. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

    I couldn't help thinking that if the essentially pragmatic answers Trueman offered were the best we confessionally Reformed have to offer, then Leithart has some ground to question the future of protestantism.
  18. C. M. Sheffield

    C. M. Sheffield Puritan Board Senior

    I was somewhat disappointed that Dr. Trueman wasn't more engaging and hard-hitting. He seemed reluctant to engage on the points made by Leithart. And I'm not sure why. At times Trueman and Sanders seemed almost surprised that the moderator wanted them to chime in on the conversation. This I found most puzzling. Dr. Leithart's propositions were far from unassailable; indeed they were riddled with fallacies and errors which ought to have been easily exposed... but there were only crickets on the other side of the table. And when Dr. Trueman did chime in, he was often agreeing with Leithart. Now I'm all for agreeing with an opponent when their is some area of agreement, but it hardly went beyond that to challenge the areas of disagreement. And many of Dr. Trueman's statements were more along the lines of saying "I'm not really sure about all this."

    Perhaps the thing that really makes this so unfortunate was how how unsure and unconvincing and uncogent Leithart was about his own position. He did quite a lot of mumbling. He never really seemed very sure of himself. In fact the only one who did seem to really challenge Leithart was Brad Littlejohn of the Davenant Trust during the Q&A time (2:11:35). All-in-all I found it to be a very unsatisfying two-and-a-half hours.
  19. MW

    MW Puritanboard Amanuensis

    May I suggest that the principles of Protestantism are essentially practical or pastoral by nature. How a man may be just with God is not an abstract or detached question.

    Calling for unity in the church where these principles are at stake is like calling for bi-partisan political support on issues which by nature divide the parties. Where one must betray his principles in order to enter into the discussion his solemn duty is to "protest."
  20. mvdm

    mvdm Puritan Board Junior

    I tried picturing Calvin sitting in Trueman's seat fielding the softball questions on whether there can be ecumenicism if Rome is a false church. Doubt Calvin would have dodged the question like Trueman did and talk about how we protestants need to get our house in order first. Nauseating.
  21. MW

    MW Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Where there is a division in a body it is futile speaking about unity with other bodies. That is the basic point. Those who are disintegrating historic Protestant principles in the name of unity are perpetuating the divisions within Protestant bodies. That is nauseating.
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  22. LilyG

    LilyG Puritan Board Freshman

    First post! :)

    Yes! I thought the same thing. Even James White would've knocked it out of the park. My husband went to this discussion, and came back pretty disappointed.
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
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